The Official Plasma Input Lag Thread. - Page 15

Here's something i'd like to know. Does the ST30 have lower input lag than Panasonics lower end 2012 ' X5'? Based on US reviews this years
panny's obviously produce more lag at least with the UT50 and ST50, nobody has mentioned 'anything' about
the X5.

I think my only real option here to get the lowest lag possible by the sounds of it when it comes to panasonic plasmas is by going with last years 50" ST30
which is going for $999 + $0 Shipping 'new' online.My only concern is the filter. Would the S30 or this years UT50 produce a cleaner/crisper image for gaming
considering they don't have any filter at all? Apperantly this seems to be the case concerning the UT50 vs the ST50...

The 'S30' however doesn't have 3D, and the picture itself apperantly isn't as good as the ST30's, especially when it comes to blacks by the sound of it, not to mention
it's lacking a few other picture controls.
Edited by WaveBoy - 8/5/12 at 1:15pm

Alright, screw it. I've decided that I'm returning my X5 in a few days and i'm going to order a brand new Panasonic 2011 50" S30 online.
I can't go wrong as far as input lag in concerned since everybody seems to be praising the 2011 panny's as being the best in that area. And I'm sure
the S30's neo panel will deliver better blacks than my non neopanel 720p X5. Even IF the S30 manages to do 2 frames just like my X5, i guess i'll just have to DEAL and get
used to it which will be pretty hard for me. because it doesn't seem like it will get any better for a panasonic plasma, at least for now.

The US model results have been 16-32ms while the UK models have beeng getting 16ms, so i guess i'll have to wait and see. No more
reading into this crap anymore, it's driving me crazy. XP Buy and try, keep it and that's that. maybe a 2013 panny will surface with better input lag than the 2012 models.
Because i'd probably just upgrade, that and because i want 3D. I'm not going with the ST30 however because of the added in
filter which makes video games look less crisp and clear, just like the ST50.

The UT50 would be the perfect choice, but for the millionth time the input lag is the deal breaker.
So it's the 50" S30 for me all the way. B-)

Sounds good dude, im really interested how that tv will fare when you try it out! brand new too, thats a bonus.

Good luck WaveBoy! Glad to see you have made a decision. I know how much you were trying to find that killer input lag HDTV. Let us know how you like it.

Why did you reject the Samsung E6500 with 16ms lag time
when all you have to do is change the input lable to 'PC'?

@Sonyfan

Because somebody mentioned that when you do stick it in PC mode you can't adjust certain basic picture controls, if that weren't the case i'd totaly consider it!

@Omcron and Frankie
Thanks guys. :cool: The S30's my last shot for now and then i'm hanging in the towel. Too much obsessing over getting the right set all because of this stupid input lag issue.
I wish somebody would just invent a device that rids it all together. responsive controls matter far more to me than HD graphics, widescreen and playing on the big screen. XP
Hell, I'm more of a retro NES/SNES gamer anyways(but i've got that covered with a tube tv), but i'm trying to prepare in time for the Wii U!
Edited by WaveBoy - 8/10/12 at 1:38am

so you can you adjust those picture controls on the Panasonic but the lag is higher 30 to 45ms?

Can someone recommend a 42"-46" plasma with very low input lag that can I can buy new off amazon today? It seems some of the older recommended models are out of stock.

Which panasonic? MY X5 is about 2 frames, or 2+ frames. The S30 is said to be 16-32ms and yup you can adjust the basic picture controls, i think
it's absolutely ridiuclous if you can't in the first place. I think that's a big loss just to have 16ms on the samsung. if it IS 16ms, that's going by HDTV.Test.uk's review am i
right? And aren't samsung plasma's dimmer than panasonics? I had quite the lowst experience with samsungs D450, such a junky set with terrible input lag....Mind you i didn't spend
enough time with it and it 'was' a lower end model, even then in comparison to my X5 it was just garbage.

So what TV was tested and gets 16ms and can be color adjusted?
The UK review got 16 ms and they did go into great detail on how they got that number.
You say the panny "said to be 16-32ms" so you have no confirmation
and for all you know it could be higher than 32ms.
I don't understand your logic here.
You obsess on input lag, we have test results of 16ms yet
you are willing to risk buying a set without confirmation
of input lag so you can adjust color/color space on a set
that probably has input lag your not going to be happy with.
BTW, the D450 got rave reviews on Amazon, etc.
Why did you not change the label to 'PC' on the D450?

It doesn't matter if HDTVTest.uk went into great detail about their 'UK' model delivering 16ms in PC mode. I asked the reviewer himself and he even mentioned that UK
and US models may in fact be different in terms of lag. Why do you think everybody is complaining about this years panasonic lineup, specificly the ST50 and UT50 when it comes
to lag? They both got awarded with 16ms on HDTVTest.uk and that's a load of sh*t for the US models. They're more than 16ms, my X5 is 2 frames via component and 2+ via HDMI. their results
don't apply to the US for the most part. But you're right though, i am taking a risk getting this S30. But at the same time when it comes to these panasonic plasmas the 11' lineup is the best in terms of gaming. I just
don't feel comfortable getting a samsung plasma. Besides, i can't lose. If i'm getting a panny for gaming this is easily my best bet.

So ya, who exactly confirmed that this particular samsung is 16ms? forget the UK
reviews, i want confirmation on a US model. Also, the D450 based on my experience was too dim for gaming and it had this nasty filter-like effect going on which resulted in a less
crisp/clear image. the X5 blows it out of the water, even my LG PT350 produced a nicer image. But still, i never spent too much time with it. I never bothered labeling HDMI to PC either.

I could always try out the samsung E'550', label HDMI to 'pc input' and see how it fares. i'm mostly concerned if it can produce an image that is just as bright and colorful as my X5(game mode)
if the basic picture controls are still adjustable and if the black levels hold up. I don't have the cash to get that particular higher end sammy that you're talking about which i'm
guessing is also rocking better blacks levels.

E550 Vs S30, who vil' come on top? muhahahaha
Edited by WaveBoy - 8/10/12 at 4:00pm

I've read a few posts from new E450 and E550 owners who did use the label to PC thing and got
close to zero input lag so you are safe with the lower end sets.
even the E530 could be perfect for your gaming needs.
the UK review did point out that it disables most if not all the video processing, no wonder the lag is so short.

I'd be sold on either the E530 or E550 if you can infact somehow adjust the basic picture settings when in PC mode.
Apperantly you can only adjust Cell Light, contrast, brightness or Hue or somehing like that while color, color temp and sharpness are disabled. sigh*
Maybe there's a way to activate them in the service menu?
Edited by WaveBoy - 8/10/12 at 11:35pm

Good luck Waveboy, but I'd personally stick to 2012 models if I were you. Note that the awesome amazon TV return policy only applies to tv's sold directly through Amazon (not 3rd parties like Electronics Expo, etc.) and it's got to say the item qualifies for Free 30 Day TV Returns. The S30 only has 900 lines of Motion Picture Resolution so you'll likely see more motion blur posterization then on the UT50. I haven't seen anything to convince me the UT50 has input lag worse than last years model, but if you're buying the S30 with Free 30 Day TV Returns you can always exchange. Good Luck!

oh man. XP
This is where the big giant input lag confusion comes into play again regarding the 2012 panny's. Somebody already mentioned
that the ST50 was so laggy that he had to return it for something else. Besides, there's no way it can perform better than the lower
end X5. I think...I'm going to go back to my 32" Tube TV for a while and stop this ridiuclous OCD/Sressing over getting the right
TV. I've got around 3+ months before the Wii U releases so i don't exactly need it right now anyways. Too bad the JVC has color
bleeding going on in the 'red' department, but eh I'll deal for now. XP having not gamed for over 2 months now...or at least just
sitting down and actually playing a retro game instead of this constant silly input lag testing on multiple tvs and blah
blah has been bumming me out. XP

If i had an S30, E530/550 and a UT50 to test out right now i'd beable to make up my mind and deal. But seeing as how the S30
isn't in stores anymore that's a big risk i'd be taking. Imagine if i discover to my suprise that it yields the exact same input
lag as this years UT50. opinions are so mixed and divied, but all it really takes is for someone to say "I've played games on
last years 2011 ST30 and this years ST50 and the input lag difference is worse on the ST50"

To make things worse my 30 day are up with the X5. I completely forgot that it took 2 weeks to get here
suprisngly and that soaked up quite a bit of time with the return policy. Looks like I'll have to sell. XP
IF my attempt at trying to returnit fails.

So on the E450 and E550, by doing the HDMI PC thing the input lag drops down to the same 16ms as that higher end sammy?
There must be a way to activate those basic picture controls options in the service menu because this seems like the best gaming choice based on a 2012 set or
even in general as it doesn't get any better than 16ms. for many though like myself that lack of color, shaprness, brightness and color temp control could be the deal breaker.

You know, it would be great if AVS did an input lag test on the X5 to see where it stands
in comparison to last years S30 & ST30.

One thing to report of late. There seems to another discrepancy with the new input lat test that avforums use.

Both HDTV test and AVforums have reviewed the Samsung Plasma E6500.

HDTV claim its the best hd tv on the market for videogames bar none, due in part to the ability to change the name labels of the HDMI channels to 'PC' which lowers input lag to 16ms.

Yet, Avforums state that by renaming the HDMI channels to PC made no difference to input lag.


This E6500 is not the first tv to be reported with having the HDMI rename method work on. Two independant sources have told me that there is a definite change in picture options once 'pc' mode is enabled on the E6500 thus indicating some change is occuring, albeit this is not proof in and of itself of input lag reduction. Someone's making an error...

I was having a tough time deciding too as input lag is what i'm most worried about. I've always prefered CRT's and still game on them to this day, with the exception of HD consoles being played on a small PC monitor. This monitor performs perfectly as far as input lag is concerned however the size (22") and overall picture leave a lot to be desired, but i still love it.

Last year we picked up a 50UT30 that is a pleasure to game on and has a good picture to boot, however over the past few weeks i've been considering a bedroom TV and was sizing up the 50ST/UT50 and 51E550. The price difference in AUS was significant enough between the two Pannys and the Samsung, and tbh i wanted to try a Samsung and for the bedroom i had no need for the ST50's AR filter. After awhile i just up and decided on the 51E550, it seemed excellent value for money especially for the bedroom, and of course i wanted to try out a Samsung xD

Honestly i couldn't make a decision, the lack of information on the Samsung made things worse and the variable input lag results on the Panasonics had me completely stopped on buying a TV. But at the end of the day i thought, what other choices would i have? I'm not touching an LCD or LED and i wanted nothing more or less than a 50/51" 2012 Plasma.

I'm expecting the TV to arrive mid September so it's a significant wait but when i get it, i'll post back on how it feels but hopefully by then there are solid figures floating around for those still on the fence xD

Well Im in same boat as you everlust, because Im in Australia too. Add to that, that Im tossing up between the ST or UT50 and the E550. Not alot of info on the E550, and seems to be in very short supply, a very good price though. Do report back on how it performs, I would love to hear from someone who knows there stuff and has an Aussie model.

Everlust,

definitly let us know how the E550 fairs in HDMI via PC input...If there's no difference, or if it doesn't do 1 frame i see absolutely no point in getting the E550. Which leads me back to the ST30...
Man, the Wii U is coming out mid NOV, and i still don't know what TV i want to get, nor do i have enough cash....Hopefully i will by then as I'm aiming for a 60" XP Currently i've gone back to my 32" Tube CRT SDTV using component for both the Wii and DVD/Bluray. And I've got to say it's fantastic to have those
amazing deep black levels and perfect motion handeling of a crt again. I was so used to my Panasonic 2012 X5, where the blacks looked like a dark distracting shade of grey while the motion wasn't quite as good.

On another note, my LG LK450 2011 LCD DOES 16ms ONLY in component. HDMI raises it past the 2 frame mark making the difference completely striking. But again, i'll never game on an LCD or LED ever again....
Despise both technologies mainly because of motion blur and average blacks ect ect. But it's still nice to have sitting around because i can test it's 1 frame response against anything else i buy which
i've been doing quite a bit. Anyways, i'd absolutely love to test out the 42" E450(Then the 50 & 60" E550) to compare it to my 42" X5. I get the feeling that samsung
would win in the motion handeling department while delivering less video noise for film, while the panny is most likely capable of a much brighter image, wider color gamut and slightly deeper blacks.

I'm worried that IF i were to settle with the E550 i wouldn't be satisfyed with the black levels, or not being able to adjust color, sharpness and color temp using HDMI/PC mode for gaming...Hell, that's
basically a deal breaker right there.lol I just have a hard time settling for blacks that aren't as good as a crt. This years panasonic UT50 and up seem to have blacks that are as deep as they can get, but
it doesn't matter because they all produce too much input lag.

WaveBoy
I've read posts from new e450/e530/e550 owners the HDMI PC label does work
and results in no lag time.
There is no panel that can adjust color, sharpness, etc,
using HDMI lable to 'PC' mode for gaming.
No reason to fantasize about a feature that does not exist.

It's called....drum roll... 1:1 Pixel Mapping.
You are looking for the exact same feature 'WoRkZ' is looking for.
And let me repeat for the 100th time, no color adjustment
is possible for 1:1 Pixel Mapping.
Edited by sonyfan - 8/28/12 at 10:48am

Alright, well thanks for confirming it at least.
Somebody was saying or wishing that there 'was' a way to get into the service menu and activate(durp!)
the color, sharpness and Color temp when in PC mode, but eh whatever. Seems to be impossible. You my friend just made my
choice even easier. XP S30 or ST30...Currently checking out the 55" and 60" ST30 online...Seeing as this is the wholy
grail of Panasonic plasma's to game on, i can't do any better with input lag so i'll just deal and let it be.
16ms-32ms it tis' and 3D is a MUST...But, there's only one thing i'm curious about as i mentioned before but
never seemed to get an answer, about the added in filter....if it does in fact make the image look less
crisp/clear for gaming in comparison to the S30 which has no anti-glare filter. I'm also assuming
that both the sT30 beats out my 2012 X5 in the black level department seeing as how it has a NeoPanel and isn't
a low end fabtastic 720p set . ;p

Patiently waiting for my E550. Hope i made the right choice between it and the UT50...
Damn input lag confusion

I reckon youll be right with the E550 input lag wise, I got a call from my local Retravision store stating that Samsung will have more stock in two weeks.

I laugh at people who chose to stay away from the UT50 because of the input lag. If you are not good at a FPS like CoD, a 10ms difference is not going to magically make you better. I game on my 42UT50 a crap load (not as much lately) and I am always going positive in my matches and my kills to death ratio is a 1.56. I also do not even notice the input lag on my set, and even have gone into private matches specifically testing the input lag on my set with my 360 controller. You are either good at a game, or you are not. Don't think buying a set with a little bit less of an input lag is going to magically make you better. If you're an input lag junkie, just go buy a monitor with a 1ms response time. Then you'll be good to go.

Actually i meant overall with the set in comparison to the UT50 xD. I'm sure the UT50 performs remarkably in regards to input lag just like last years models, despite the confusion. So more stock in 2 weeks, hmm i guess i will most likely have my set as scheduled (scheduled to be delivered on the 19th from bigbrownbox).
Can't wait


It's got nothing to do with how good one is at a game. Several posters in this thread including myself have been gaming for a long time on CRT's, and with any new purchase we're looking at what we consider extremely important, which happens to be input lag. I'm getting rid of my current CRT and monitor so i'm just after one of the more responsive HDTV's out there and Plasma is my number one choice.

I play fighters pretty competitively, and any input lag that is noticeable can make a HUGE difference. The game is all about reacting as quick as possible and making split second decisions. Doing that with input lag makes a HUGE difference.

I used to game on my 2004 Samsung DLP and didn't even know about input lag, until I played on another TV and was awful because I kept trying to compensate for the lag I was used to (but didn't know about, thought it was normal to the game) and was doing moves early, and nothing came out.

The past 3 years I've been gaming on an Asus 23" monitor that has 8ms input lag.

So when I buy my next 60 - 65 inch TV, I'd like it to be "gameable" by my standards. I know I won't get to 8ms, but I still need to try gaming on an ST50 to see how it feels.

Unfortunately, there's no way the UT50 will perform better in
terms of lag when stacked up to it's litte brother the X5. If anything,
it might be on par. Somebody on HDTV.UK said there was a significant
drop in lag when using 'component' over HDMI on the UT50(or was it the ST50). I get the feeling
this drop makes it probably just as good as a performer as the X5 which is in the 2 frames/32ms+ boat.
Mind you, i don't know if this user is using an UK or NA model. Either way, 2 frames leaves me
frustrated. It bothers me knowing that videogames are far more enjoyable, intuitive and fun to play
on my CRT because of the 0ms and even 16ms.from my LK450 LCD via component, which i actually just sold for $300. XP
Knowing that i'm not getting a true response on how the game plays on a 2 frame set irks me, because it completely gives you a false impression of how the game truly plays.
Super Smash Bros brawl was a bit of a sluggish experience, and metroid prime 3's pointer controls
felt heavier and clunky ect ect.


As far as panasonic plasmas are concerned, looks like both of our best bet is to get the S30 or ST30 from
last year which does 16ms based on the old method of testing.
There are refurbished 50" S30 sets on Amazon going for about $600-$700
if you're interested. With the Wii U's release being most likely in late NOV or early Dec,
i'll be testing out a few HDTV's before then at Future Shop. The 42" E450(to compare it to my X5 in
terms of lag, color, brightness, blacks ect), The 51" E550 and the 50"-55" UT50.
i wish i could take them all back to my place, in a proper environment and do the testing, but it would
be an absolute pain having to lug all 3 of those HDTV's back and fourth. XP

If i'm not happy with the E550 or UT50, i'm settling for a 50" S30. ;o

Ended up cancelling my order so i guess i'm back to square one. After i was able to have a decent look at the Plasmas i was considering, i loved the 2012 Panasonics. I might just grab one of them and deal with it =/

I've been wondering, the lagtest device i trust completely, but i am definitely curious as to the results put out using the camera method.

We have 2012 ST Pana's coming in at 16ms(camera)/40ms+(lagtest device). Then some 2011/10 models at 16ms(camera)/30ms+(lagtest device).

It's obvious the camera method isn't exactly completely accurate or reliable but surely these camera results between the years would at least differ a bit when they get averaged out. But even then i guess it doesn't matter since the lag would vary, perhaps at its lowest it's 16ms? Either way, you could say most input lag measurements out there from monitors to HDTVs are completely wrong. I'm also curious if the lagtest readings are near identical with each measurement.

In regards to the E550, it's likely going to be on par with the E6500 (~38ms with the lagtest device). Then by the way things are looking, for models tested only with the camera method, maybe add an extra frame of lag :P

At the end of the day, the best test is still yourself, however practical that may be..
Edited by everlust - 9/9/12 at 7:22pm