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The Official Plasma Input Lag Thread. - Page 19

post #541 of 654
1/19/13 at 8:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerchiarax View Post

Is there something special you need to do in pc mode like where your hdmi cable should be plugged into. On my 60e7000 if I use pc mode on my ps3 everything looks real blurry. But maybe it depends on the game. Happened when i was playing god of war 2 from the PS3 GOW collection. It looked terrible in PC mode. On game mode much sharper and what I would expect it should look like. But I can say one thing great about pc mode is that I finally beat a boss that was driving me insane by using pc mode... smile.gif I don't know if it was luck or the lower input lag. But the game did feel different to the point where the character really felt like he was moving when I controlled him to do so smile.gif

Is it possible that switching your tv to pc input reset your PS3's video output settings and put you back to 480i? Check under display setting that that every output your tv can except is selected (1080p, 720p, etc). From what I've read, the PC input trick only works via HDMI and, on some samsung's tv, only on one of the ports. I'm guessing it's probably the one that is labeled HDMI/DVI, if your tv is like that.
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post #542 of 654
1/20/13 at 11:53am
Pretty disappointed in my e6500. Input lag is alright, but the PQ is pretty bad, imho. The menus are slow and laggy as well, and things like media streaming (upnp) is very clunky and difficult to rewind and forward throughout the movie. Also doesn't seem to do a very good job at properly stretching certain content. All in all, I wouldn't recommend it, but I needed something with low input lag.
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post #543 of 654
1/20/13 at 2:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerchiarax View Post

Is there something special you need to do in pc mode like where your hdmi cable should be plugged into. On my 60e7000 if I use pc mode on my ps3 everything looks real blurry. But maybe it depends on the game. Happened when i was playing god of war 2 from the PS3 GOW collection. It looked terrible in PC mode. On game mode much sharper and what I would expect it should look like. But I can say one thing great about pc mode is that I finally beat a boss that was driving me insane by using pc mode... smile.gif I don't know if it was luck or the lower input lag. But the game did feel different to the point where the character really felt like he was moving when I controlled him to do so smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by rossip View Post

Is it possible that switching your tv to pc input reset your PS3's video output settings and put you back to 480i? Check under display setting that that every output your tv can except is selected (1080p, 720p, etc). From what I've read, the PC input trick only works via HDMI and, on some samsung's tv, only on one of the ports. I'm guessing it's probably the one that is labeled HDMI/DVI, if your tv is like that.

Aye I've got mines plugged into number 1 hdmi/dvi & it does initially look a little blurrier, after tinkering i would say it looked smoother rather than blurry & its a more natural look that I prefer. But if sharpness is your thing then i see what you mean for sure smile.gif
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post #544 of 654
1/20/13 at 5:05pm
I agree with everything you said, I just bought the U50 and at times game mode just looks horrible and it does crush blacks like no other and you lose so much detail because of it. I also noticed that the in game brightness controls on certain games (like black ops 2) suggest I need to turn down brightness all the way, but if you do that its way to dark. I turn it up more than a few clicks regardless and that some what helps for shadows and stuff. Last night I just started playin in cinema mode and it might not have the pop of the graphics or brightness like game mode and has more lag, but I played better and you don't lose alot of detail, like in game mode alot of the times my gun is just a black blob and can't see no detail on it. Cinema mode is more of what the game is suppose to look like. I might try custome mode out after some tweaking with settings
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post #545 of 654
1/21/13 at 12:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruR8er4life View Post

I agree with everything you said, I just bought the U50 and at times game mode just looks horrible and it does crush blacks like no other and you lose so much detail because of it. I also noticed that the in game brightness controls on certain games (like black ops 2) suggest I need to turn down brightness all the way, but if you do that its way to dark. I turn it up more than a few clicks regardless and that some what helps for shadows and stuff. Last night I just started playin in cinema mode and it might not have the pop of the graphics or brightness like game mode and has more lag, but I played better and you don't lose alot of detail, like in game mode alot of the times my gun is just a black blob and can't see no detail on it. Cinema mode is more of what the game is suppose to look like. I might try custom mode out after some tweaking with settings

Let us know how custom mode works out and if it hurts lag (even after all processing is turned off under this mode).
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post #546 of 654
1/21/13 at 1:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruR8er4life View Post

I agree with everything you said, I just bought the U50 and at times game mode just looks horrible and it does crush blacks like no other and you lose so much detail because of it. I also noticed that the in game brightness controls on certain games (like black ops 2) suggest I need to turn down brightness all the way, but if you do that its way to dark. I turn it up more than a few clicks regardless and that some what helps for shadows and stuff. Last night I just started playin in cinema mode and it might not have the pop of the graphics or brightness like game mode and has more lag, but I played better and you don't lose alot of detail, like in game mode alot of the times my gun is just a black blob and can't see no detail on it. Cinema mode is more of what the game is suppose to look like. I might try custome mode out after some tweaking with settings

I have the U50 as well, the only picture mode I will use is cinema, Panasonic decided to enable that weird processing that crushes shadow detail in bright scenes, and it cannot be disabled either. The only picture mode that has this disabled is cinema. If there is any lag input difference between the game mode and cinema I just can't notice it.
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post #547 of 654
1/21/13 at 4:17pm
I'm wondering if anyone has been able to measure or directly compare the input lag on the e7000 vs the e6500 in "PC" mode. I'm not happy with the latency (or the short onset, long duration IR) on my ST50 and I still have about 10 days left to return it, so I'm seriously looking at the 51" Samsungs right now. This TV's never going to be pulling primary TV duty (the 5080 still gets that honor until I'm ready to upgrade to a flagship 65") so I'm not too worried about the black levels (has to be better than the image processing in ST50 game mode, anyway).

I ask because at the moment the Amazon price for the 51" e7000 is $1000, while the e6500 is still ~$1250. I imagine the price differences are related to demand; the fact that the e6500 been talked about as the king of low latency probably has kept sales up while the e7000 sits in warehouses.

Anyone have any info that might be able to help?

*edit: I didn't even notice, but apparently the e8000 is also currently less than the e6500. Obviously this pricing is a result of the announcement of the 2013 models, but I'm just curious is this is an indication that these models really don't have the same low input latency as the 6500.
Edited by headlesschickens - 1/21/13 at 4:37pm
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post #548 of 654
1/21/13 at 5:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cv1981 View Post

I have the U50 as well, the only picture mode I will use is cinema, Panasonic decided to enable that weird processing that crushes shadow detail in bright scenes, and it cannot be disabled either. The only picture mode that has this disabled is cinema. If there is any lag input difference between the game mode and cinema I just can't notice it.

Yeah I don't notice any difference and in fact I get more kills using cinema mode, probably cause I can see everything Im suppose to see. I did however read through the U50 posts and someone mentioned changing the HDMI settings to Graphics and this actually made it look alot better in some regards, like it turns off the dynamic contrast or something.

You say you have the U50, I have a question. Do you ever get static (like how the older TVs picture would get when they didn't have a signal), mine does this alot when on all black screen, like when games are loading or even sometimes inbetween changing channels. It doesn't happen that much when theres something on screen but it has happened though. Thinkin I might have to exchange it. I noticed it the 2nd day I had the TV and not until I tried to use the Disney WOW, I called Panasonic and they had me reset to factory and that worked until I tried to use WOW again and now resetting doesn't get rid of it
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post #549 of 654
1/21/13 at 7:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by headlesschickens View Post

I'm wondering if anyone has been able to measure or directly compare the input lag on the e7000 vs the e6500 in "PC" mode. I'm not happy with the latency (or the short onset, long duration IR) on my ST50 and I still have about 10 days left to return it, so I'm seriously looking at the 51" Samsungs right now. This TV's never going to be pulling primary TV duty (the 5080 still gets that honor until I'm ready to upgrade to a flagship 65") so I'm not too worried about the black levels (has to be better than the image processing in ST50 game mode, anyway).

I ask because at the moment the Amazon price for the 51" e7000 is $1000, while the e6500 is still ~$1250. I imagine the price differences are related to demand; the fact that the e6500 been talked about as the king of low latency probably has kept sales up while the e7000 sits in warehouses.

Anyone have any info that might be able to help?

*edit: I didn't even notice, but apparently the e8000 is also currently less than the e6500. Obviously this pricing is a result of the announcement of the 2013 models, but I'm just curious is this is an indication that these models really don't have the same low input latency as the 6500.

I think there's little chance this pricing is related to lag, much more likely cause there's lower inventory of the cheaper model (e6500). Same way the VT is getting the most price cuts right now, while the ST50 price is steady.
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post #550 of 654
1/22/13 at 9:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by demonear View Post


Aye I've got mines plugged into number 1 hdmi/dvi & it does initially look a little blurrier, after tinkering i would say it looked smoother rather than blurry & its a more natural look that I prefer. But if sharpness is your thing then i see what you mean for sure smile.gif

I'll give it a try. If I have time I'll try to do a picture comparison and post it.
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post #551 of 654
1/22/13 at 12:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerchiarax View Post

I'll give it a try. If I have time I'll try to do a picture comparison and post it.

I've got my brightness up at about 60-65% & my sharpness at about the same. Any other mode on the TV I've not got these settings even nearly as high. I'm outputting in RGB full from the PS3.
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post #552 of 654
1/23/13 at 6:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruR8er4life View Post

I agree with everything you said, I just bought the U50 and at times game mode just looks horrible and it does crush blacks like no other and you lose so much detail because of it. I also noticed that the in game brightness controls on certain games (like black ops 2) suggest I need to turn down brightness all the way, but if you do that its way to dark. I turn it up more than a few clicks regardless and that some what helps for shadows and stuff. Last night I just started playin in cinema mode and it might not have the pop of the graphics or brightness like game mode and has more lag, but I played better and you don't lose alot of detail, like in game mode alot of the times my gun is just a black blob and can't see no detail on it. Cinema mode is more of what the game is suppose to look like. I might try custome mode out after some tweaking with settings
Ok so I have a UT50 and................ I have absolutely no clue what you guys are talking about? I keep flipping threw cinema, game and custom and I don't really see any difference except cinima being like 5% dimmer and having less color saturation or what ever, your making it sound like your flipping your black levels from light to dark and I don't notice anything that comes close to that?

And the whole input lag thing... id rather have 38ms and be able to play with the lights on and have good PQ for everything than pay $250 more for 16ms and worse PQ?
And IR? When I got my UT I was careful but now after 2 week I leave it on the xbox dashboard for like 3 hours at a time (with ir reduction) and I have had zero problems.

My issue is with 30fps games, the jitter and shaking drives me nuts and gives me horrible head aches :/. Worst part is non of my xbox live friends claim to have this with there 1080 tv's... how is that possible? are they just blind? (probably are sense they all have cheap LCD's)
Quote:
Originally Posted by demonear View Post

I've got my brightness up at about 60-65% & my sharpness at about the same. Any other mode on the TV I've not got these settings even nearly as high. I'm outputting in RGB full from the PS3.
Should turn your sharpness down
Edited by ScaryFatKidGT - 1/23/13 at 6:46pm
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post #553 of 654
1/23/13 at 9:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaryFatKidGT View Post

Ok so I have a UT50 and................ I have absolutely no clue what you guys are talking about? I keep flipping threw cinema, game and custom and I don't really see any difference except cinima being like 5% dimmer and having less color saturation or what ever, your making it sound like your flipping your black levels from light to dark and I don't notice anything that comes close to that?

And the whole input lag thing... id rather have 38ms and be able to play with the lights on and have good PQ for everything than pay $250 more for 16ms and worse PQ?
And IR? When I got my UT I was careful but now after 2 week I leave it on the xbox dashboard for like 3 hours at a time (with ir reduction) and I have had zero problems.

My issue is with 30fps games, the jitter and shaking drives me nuts and gives me horrible head aches :/. Worst part is non of my xbox live friends claim to have this with there 1080 tv's... how is that possible? are they just blind? (probably are sense they all have cheap LCD's)
Should turn your sharpness down

If you don't notice much difference and like how it looks in game mode than thats all that matters, all I ended up doing was changing the HDMI settings (which is in the picture settings) to Graphics, try this and you will see alot of difference. Alot of people like how the dynamic contrast looks on games, I prefer a more natural look which is what changing to graphics will give ya. It is actually close to Cinema mode but its brighter and still is in game mode (which is suppose to have less lag)
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post #554 of 654
1/24/13 at 12:32pm
If the U is anything like the older Panasonic plasmas, Game Mode does nothing in terms of input lag.

Also, on the UT the Photo HDMI setting is preferable over the Graphics setting, granted you prefer accurate color. Both share the same gamma profile but the Photo setting has a better gamut. Greens and reds are extended on the Graphics setting. The U may share the same characteristics. You can check by bringing up greens and reds on the display and switching between Graphic and Photo.
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post #555 of 654
1/24/13 at 3:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper View Post

If the U is anything like the older Panasonic plasmas, Game Mode does nothing in terms of input lag.

Also, on the UT the Photo HDMI setting is preferable over the Graphics setting, granted you prefer accurate color. Both share the same gamma profile but the Photo setting has a better gamut. Greens and reds are extended on the Graphics setting. The U may share the same characteristics. You can check by bringing up greens and reds on the display and switching between Graphic and Photo.

Game mode on my U50 seems exactly the same as custom mode, at least picture quality wise, input the same settings, and you can change between the 2 modes and the screen stays exactly the same. Do that with the other picture modes and the tv flickers when changing between them. The costco version I think it is, the U54, does not come with a game mode, seems like Panasonic just put in a second custom mode and labeled it game on the U50.

The HDMI settings seem similar on the U50 as you say they are on the UT50. Graphics/Off seem to be near exact color to me, but photo mode greens are not as neon, and reds are not as orange.
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post #556 of 654
1/27/13 at 12:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruR8er4life View Post

If you don't notice much difference and like how it looks in game mode than thats all that matters, all I ended up doing was changing the HDMI settings (which is in the picture settings) to Graphics, try this and you will see alot of difference. Alot of people like how the dynamic contrast looks on games, I prefer a more natural look which is what changing to graphics will give ya. It is actually close to Cinema mode but its brighter and still is in game mode (which is suppose to have less lag)
ok ill try it, cinema just seems so dead looking but the colors are blown out on game and custom
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper View Post

If the U is anything like the older Panasonic plasmas, Game Mode does nothing in terms of input lag.

Also, on the UT the Photo HDMI setting is preferable over the Graphics setting, granted you prefer accurate color. Both share the same gamma profile but the Photo setting has a better gamut. Greens and reds are extended on the Graphics setting. The U may share the same characteristics. You can check by bringing up greens and reds on the display and switching between Graphic and Photo.
ahhh other modes are like 60ms and game is like 38 haven't you guys seen the tests?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cv1981 View Post

Game mode on my U50 seems exactly the same as custom mode, at least picture quality wise, input the same settings, and you can change between the 2 modes and the screen stays exactly the same. Do that with the other picture modes and the tv flickers when changing between them. The costco version I think it is, the U54, does not come with a game mode, seems like Panasonic just put in a second custom mode and labeled it game on the U50.

The HDMI settings seem similar on the U50 as you say they are on the UT50. Graphics/Off seem to be near exact color to me, but photo mode greens are not as neon, and reds are not as orange.
The reason it flickers is game mode turns the processing off.

Graphics seems to be a "stronger" version of photos where auto and off are different
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post #557 of 654
1/29/13 at 11:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaryFatKidGT View Post


Should turn your sharpness down

you would think so but honestly it looks fine at that & not overly sharp. Maybe it's because of HDMI PC labeling trick. I've heard people say that it looks a bit washed out & flat when they select it..
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post #558 of 654
1/29/13 at 3:34pm
Hi guys and gals,
Long time lurker here and a first time poster.

I'm going to be buying a new TV here in the next couple of weeks and I am trying to decide between the 51" Samsung e550 and the 50" Panasonic UT50. The TV is going to be used mainly for gaming (PS3) and HD satellite with the occasional Blu-Ray. I have been trying to decide between these two TVs for a while now and I just can't make up my mind.
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post #559 of 654
1/29/13 at 8:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parasyte View Post

Hi guys and gals,
Long time lurker here and a first time poster.

I'm going to be buying a new TV here in the next couple of weeks and I am trying to decide between the 51" Samsung e550 and the 50" Panasonic UT50. The TV is going to be used mainly for gaming (PS3) and HD satellite with the occasional Blu-Ray. I have been trying to decide between these two TVs for a while now and I just can't make up my mind.
ST50 or E6500 lol

but id say UT
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post #560 of 654
1/30/13 at 8:23am
@beerninja, i will try to help here in my coast (FL), I just got the Leo dobnar lag tester (1080p) I'll try to get numbers for TV's you couldn't...only thing I have tested so far is my OLD OLD OLD (08') Sammy A650 LCD, 38-41ms(?) in game - top white bar was 38ms, middle and lower bars tested at 41ms, 32ms in "PC" trick...and over 64+++ms in "normal" mode.
Well see what I find. I'm going to BB, sams and then sears. eek.gif will probably take the whole weekend, if i'm lucky eek.gif
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post #561 of 654
1/30/13 at 11:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parasyte View Post

Hi guys and gals,
Long time lurker here and a first time poster.

I'm going to be buying a new TV here in the next couple of weeks and I am trying to decide between the 51" Samsung e550 and the 50" Panasonic UT50. The TV is going to be used mainly for gaming (PS3) and HD satellite with the occasional Blu-Ray. I have been trying to decide between these two TVs for a while now and I just can't make up my mind.

I was the same & went with the 51E6500.. so far so good & it just seems to get better tongue.gif
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post #562 of 654
1/30/13 at 3:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiltedmile View Post

@beerninja, i will try to help here in my coast (FL), I just got the Leo dobnar lag tester (1080p) I'll try to get numbers for TV's you couldn't...only thing I have tested so far is my OLD OLD OLD (08') Sammy A650 LCD, 38-41ms(?) in game - top white bar was 38ms, middle and lower bars tested at 41ms, 32ms in "PC" trick...and over 64+++ms in "normal" mode.
Well see what I find. I'm going to BB, sams and then sears. eek.gif will probably take the whole weekend, if i'm lucky eek.gif

awesome dude, have fun smile.gif

I never tried the PC trick on any of the sammys I tried and I haven't had a chance to try the one sony that I could get to work with the game mode which apparently is only accessible via remote. If you figure out how to get any of the Sharps to work with the tester please let me know smile.gif
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post #563 of 654
1/31/13 at 5:55am
Alright, my friends, and myself included have almost talked me out of getting a plasma. If this sounds really stupid please forgive me, I'm almost scared to buy a plasma to tell you the truth.

I know they offer much better PQ than LEDs and they have much better fast motion resolution, but I don't want to drop the money on one and then mess it up during that break-in period. I want to be able to set the TV up and start using it as I normally would; gaming, watching TV, etc.

If I do decide to go with a plasma (currently looking at the Samsung E550 because of reports of its better IR/BI prevention) is there anything specific that I need to bare in mind?
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post #564 of 654
1/31/13 at 10:54am
The only thing specific to bare in mind is that, as a newcomer to plasma, reading AVSforum can make you unrealistically paranoid about plasma technology.
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post #565 of 654
1/31/13 at 1:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper View Post

The only thing specific to bare in mind is that, as a newcomer to plasma, reading AVSforum can make you unrealistically paranoid about plasma technology.
That's kinda what's happened with me. I've read things about "having to alter my gaming habits" in order to prevent burn-in/IR, playing break in slides for 100 hours before using the TV as you normally would, etc.

It's almost turned me off of plasma entirely. My friends are also constantly telling me how bad plasmas are, it's a dead technology, etc.
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post #566 of 654
1/31/13 at 8:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parasyte View Post

That's kinda what's happened with me. I've read things about "having to alter my gaming habits" in order to prevent burn-in/IR, playing break in slides for 100 hours before using the TV as you normally would, etc.

It's almost turned me off of plasma entirely. My friends are also constantly telling me how bad plasmas are, it's a dead technology, etc.

I felt the exact same way, but I decided to go ahead and get an ST50, and I absolutely love it. No problems at all with IR after hundreds of hours worth of the same couple games.

Also, your friends don't know what they're talking about.
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post #567 of 654
2/1/13 at 5:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermolicious84 View Post

I felt the exact same way, but I decided to go ahead and get an ST50, and I absolutely love it. No problems at all with IR after hundreds of hours worth of the same couple games.

Also, your friends don't know what they're talking about.
I know. Based on all of the research that I've done, plasma is still the way to go for amazing PQ and bang for the buck.

The main thing I am worried about with gaming is the fact that I play a lot of first person shooters; mainly Battelfield 3, Killzone, and soon to be Aliens: Colonial Marines. If I need to, I can lay off those games and not play them as much. I can always spend more time with some other games I have like Ratchet & Clank, God of War, and Uncharted.

Would that be more advisable? I also have plenty of blu-rays and Travel Channel shows DVR'd that I can watch in the mean time.
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post #568 of 654
2/3/13 at 7:13am
I just got a UT50, do you guys recommend using component instead of HDMI for less input lag?

I've never tried measuring lag, on my LCD I'd just play Halo and try sniping people, that showed lag pretty well. smile.gif I was using VGA on my Samsung LCD, that seemed the best for lag.
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post #569 of 654
2/4/13 at 11:51pm
Hello everyone,

I just wanted to give you guys the heads up about Display Lag, a website I created to serve as a database for input lag. All of the screens were tested using Leo Bodnar's Lag Tester. I have nearly 50 displays graded with the cooperation of a few stores, as well as a grading scale to help you guys determine if the HDTV is good or not for gaming. I will be adding a lot more displays as soon as I can, also have a few articles up if you guys are interested in reading. I've been a competitive Street Fighter 4 player for over 4 years, so input lag is a very delicate subject to me. Hope the website is useful! Let me know if you have any questions.

http://www.displaylag.com/
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post #570 of 654
2/6/13 at 10:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FourWude View Post

Hello everyone,

I just wanted to give you guys the heads up about Display Lag, a website I created to serve as a database for input lag. All of the screens were tested using Leo Bodnar's Lag Tester. I have nearly 50 displays graded with the cooperation of a few stores, as well as a grading scale to help you guys determine if the HDTV is good or not for gaming. I will be adding a lot more displays as soon as I can, also have a few articles up if you guys are interested in reading. I've been a competitive Street Fighter 4 player for over 4 years, so input lag is a very delicate subject to me. Hope the website is useful! Let me know if you have any questions.

http://www.displaylag.com/

Very cool site! Any chance of checking the Panasonic ST50 - custom vs game mode? All unnecessary (lag increasing) settings turned off, of course.

Here are the settings for custom (input same settings for game mode):

Picture
Picture Mode: Custom
Contrast: 76
Brightness: 56
Color: 43
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 0
Color Temp: Warm2
Photo Enhancement: Off
C.A.T.S: Off
Video NR: Off


Pro Settings
Colorspace: Normal

W/B High R: -7
W/B High G: 0
W/B High B: -2
W/B Low R: +12
W/B Low G: 0
W/B Low B: +3

Black Extension: 0
Gamma Adjustment: 2.6 (50/55" models) 2.4 (60/65" models)
Panel Brightness: Mid
Contour Emphasis: Off
AGC: 0

HDMI Settings
***Leave all settings in this menu at their default***


Advance Picture
Block NR: Off
Mosquito NR: Off
Motion Smoother: Off
Black Level: Light
3:2 PullDown: Auto
Edited by p3Orion - 2/6/13 at 10:17am
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