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The Official Plasma Input Lag Thread. - Page 20

post #571 of 654
2/11/13 at 11:50am
I just purchased a US Samsung PN60E6500. After seeing the UK review where they mentioned the PC naming trick for this TV, I tried it. None of my picture settings changed (I could still turn game mode on, change to Movie, Standard, Dynamic). Yes the source name correctly displayed PC when I selected the HDMI input to play xbox. It looks like game mode is the only option.

I just asked a Samsung Rep through live chat if the PC naming trick worked for US Samsung TV's.

He replied:

Rep: I am sorry; editing the source name doesn't decreases the input lag on the TV.

After trying to clarify further, he stated:

Rep: I understand your requirement, editing the source names doesn't change the input lag from the source device.
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post #572 of 654
2/12/13 at 10:09am
The rep is incorrect. Maybe your TV is an exception, but the trick is to use HDMI1. The PC mode name change only activates on the PC HDMI input, and won't change on other HDMI inputs.

That's how it works on my UN55D6000.
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post #573 of 654
2/21/13 at 9:08pm
By leaving Color Management 'on' instead of OFF does it slightly increase input lag?(I'm guessing
because the HDTV does more picture processing?) I've been testing out Virtual console games on my wii such as Ninja Gaiden, Mega Man and the like
and i swear there's the teeniest bit of a difference at least on Gaiden, but in this case i'm honestly too sure.
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post #574 of 654
2/22/13 at 2:35pm
I just ordered a Samsung PN51E7000 plasma TV after hearing that plasma screens have little to no input lag just to find out that it only scored as "OKAY" in input lag testing

I'm very PO'ed right now because response time is crucial when playing MLB "The Show" and now I might not even have a TV with less lag then my old laggy LN46B750 LCD TV mad.gif
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post #575 of 654
2/22/13 at 4:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRUE2LABLUE View Post

I just ordered a Samsung PN51E7000 plasma TV after hearing that plasma screens have little to no input lag just to find out that it only scored as "OKAY" in input lag testing

I'm very PO'ed right now because response time is crucial when playing MLB "The Show" and now I might not even have a TV with less lag then my old laggy LN46B750 LCD TV mad.gif

Pre-purchase research is your friend.
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post #576 of 654
2/22/13 at 4:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by willieconway View Post

Pre-purchase research is your friend.

I did for 2 weeks on everything else except input lag
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post #577 of 654
2/22/13 at 4:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRUE2LABLUE View Post

I just ordered a Samsung PN51E7000 plasma TV after hearing that plasma screens have little to no input lag just to find out that it only scored as "OKAY" in input lag testing

I'm very PO'ed right now because response time is crucial when playing MLB "The Show" and now I might not even have a TV with less lag then my old laggy LN46B750 LCD TV mad.gif

Unless "The Show" is an extremely laggy game, you really shouldn't have any issues. Your new TV is probably around 20ms better at any rate.
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post #578 of 654
2/22/13 at 5:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpectre88 View Post

Unless "The Show" is an extremely laggy game, you really shouldn't have any issues. Your new TV is probably around 20ms better at any rate.

Well according to http://www.displaylag.com/ it's between 40 to 51ms which is why I was disappointed

"The Show" is a baseball game which requires precise timing when batting so minimal lag is vital
Edited by TRUE2LABLUE - 2/22/13 at 5:30pm
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post #579 of 654
2/22/13 at 5:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRUE2LABLUE View Post

Well according to http://www.displaylag.com/ it's between 40 to 51ms which is why I was disappointed

"The Show" is a baseball game which requires precise timing when batting so minimal lag is vital

Your other TV was around 65ms. Your new TV should be perfectly fine, I would be surprised if you felt any lag at all. Unless the total combined input lag from the TV, controller, console, and game reaches above 80-100+ms then you shouldn't be able to feel any delay between your inputs and actions. Anyone who thinks that anything above 30ms of lag is "unplayable" doesn't even understand input lag.
Edited by JSpectre88 - 2/22/13 at 5:59pm
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post #580 of 654
2/22/13 at 6:08pm
I'm fairly certain your new TV will feel better. Try it out and let us know. It should be a lot more playable if your old TV was 65ms.
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post #581 of 654
2/22/13 at 8:55pm
Moved. biggrin.gif
Edited by JSpectre88 - 2/22/13 at 9:21pm
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post #582 of 654
2/22/13 at 9:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpectre88 View Post

Your other TV was around 65ms. Your new TV should be perfectly fine, I would be surprised if you felt any lag at all. Unless the total combined input lag from the TV, controller, console, and game reaches above 80-100+ms then you shouldn't be able to feel any delay between your inputs and actions. Anyone who thinks that anything above 30ms of lag is "unplayable" doesn't even understand input lag.

Thanks for the reassurance you have given me on my TV purchase that I spent weeks researching. How did you find the lag time of my old TV?... I looked everywhere trying to confirm if it was more or less then my new one

Quote:
Originally Posted by FourWude View Post

I'm fairly certain your new TV will feel better. Try it out and let us know. It should be a lot more playable if your old TV was 65ms.

I will for sure let you guys know when I get it on Thursday.

I never knew what the actual input lag was on my old TV because it wasn't tested on that website but I know it was unplayable unless "game mode" was on and even then still seemed a little lagged. If my old Samsung LN46B750 input lag is indeed 65ms in game mode then my new plasma is already improved even at it's extreme measure of lag time which is 40 to 51ms
Edited by TRUE2LABLUE - 2/22/13 at 9:09pm
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post #583 of 654
2/22/13 at 9:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRUE2LABLUE View Post

Thanks for the reassurance you have given me on my TV purchase that I spent weeks researching. How did you find the lag time of my old TV?... I looked everywhere trying to confirm if it was more or less then my new one
I will for sure let you guys know when I get it on Thursday.

Tom's Hardware tested it as 4 frames of input delay in game mode, so that's 16.6x4 = 64ms. That extra 20ms your gaining is critical depending on how close you get to the lag threshold. Developers state that up to 100ms controls should still feel responsive. That can be different for some people, but it's safe to assume it should be within at least 10-20ms of that mark. The TV or monitor is the worst culprit when it comes to input lag, but it's not the only source. There's input lag from processing regardless of if your playing on a PC or a console, and then there's input lag generated by the game itself. For example, games like Oblivion and Fallout had some pretty bad input lag on PC and consoles. Generally games have little input lag, but it all still adds up to the final product you see on screen.

I moved this from above in case you didn't see it.

"I probably should have just opened with this. I have a Panasonic GT50 that's measured around 40-50ms also. I have it hooked up to my PC and have tested it against my PC monitor in a number of different games. My PC monitor is the ASUS VE247H, measured at 1-frame(16ms) of display lag and 2ms response time, with a total of 18 ms input delay altogether. My GT50 feels exactly the same as the ASUS when game mode is on, controls are responsive and feel incredibly fluid. With game mode off the GT50 probably has anywhere from 60-70ms of input lag, and while it feels just the tiniest bit sluggish, it's still easily playable. Unless you have an inhuman sense of perception, you have nothing to worry about."
Edited by JSpectre88 - 2/22/13 at 9:36pm
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post #584 of 654
2/22/13 at 9:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpectre88 View Post

Tom's Hardware tested it as 4 frames of input delay in game mode, so that's 16.6x4 64ms. That extra 20ms your gaining is critical depending on how close you get to the lag threshold. Developers state that up to 100ms controls should still feel responsive. That can be different for some people, but it's safe to assume it should be within at least 10-20ms of that mark. The TV or monitor is the worst culprit when it comes to input lag, but it's not the only source. There's input lag from processing regardless of if your playing on a PC or a console, and then there's input lag generated by the game itself. For example, games like Oblivion and Fallout had some pretty bad input lag on PC and consoles. Generally games have little input lag, but it all still adds up to the final product you see on screen.

I moved this from above in case you didn't see it.

"I probably should have just opened with this. I have a Panasonic GT50 that's measured around 40-50ms also. I have it hooked up to my PC and have tested it against my PC monitor in a number of different games. My PC monitor is the ASUS VE247H, measured at 1-frame(16ms) of display lag and 2ms response time, with a total of 18 ms input delay altogether. My GT50 feels exactly the same as the ASUS when game mode is on, controls are responsive and feel incredibly fluid. With game mode off the GT50 probably has anywhere from 60-70ms of input lag, and while it feels just the tiniest bit sluggish, it's still easily playable. Unless you have an inhuman sense of perception, you have nothing to worry about."

Thanks for explaining that to me. After reading all of this I'm very confident I will be able to play my new plasma in game mode and feel a major difference from my old LCD
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post #585 of 654
4/1/13 at 5:52pm
Thread Starter 
Looks like the XX60's are going to be garbage for gaming (75-100+ms). Updated OP with warning, pending further results.
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post #586 of 654
4/2/13 at 2:23am
Would that result basically apply to the s60 and s64 as well, or do they have different panels / processors, possibly allowing them to get closer to the U54 results posted?
Edited by mphfrom77 - 4/2/13 at 2:30am
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post #587 of 654
4/2/13 at 11:07am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mphfrom77 View Post

Would that result basically apply to the s60 and s64 as well, or do they have different panels / processors, possibly allowing them to get closer to the U54 results posted?

Yea there could still be model and territorial differences. Historically there haven't been huge variations in the models, but perhaps this year will be different.
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post #588 of 654
4/2/13 at 2:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orta View Post

Looks like the XX60's are going to be garbage for gaming (75-100+ms). Updated OP with warning, pending further results.

wow, how the mighty have fallen, I guess Samsung is our only hope now...
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post #589 of 654
4/3/13 at 3:54pm
FourWude, do you intend to test the Panasonic 55ST60 to see how it compares to the 55ST50?
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post #590 of 654
4/3/13 at 3:56pm
I have the ASUS VH236H monitor and the Panasonic 55ST50, measured at 16ms and 40ms, respectively. Is the 24ms difference something most people would notice playing a game like FIFA 13?
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post #591 of 654
4/3/13 at 9:26pm
16ms vs 40ms should be negligible for sports games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mphfrom77 View Post

Would that result basically apply to the s60 and s64 as well, or do they have different panels / processors, possibly allowing them to get closer to the U54 results posted?
This is a possibility. The tech is still quite different between the S and ST+ lines. I think the S is still using the 600Hz SFD, for example.
Edited by Yukon Trooper - 4/3/13 at 9:34pm
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post #592 of 654
4/5/13 at 4:14pm
I posted this on the ST60 thread, but it really belongs here:

A review for the EU version of the GT60 just came out on hdtvtest.co.uk, and their lag testing on this model revealed much better numbers than the ST60. 43ms from the Leo Bodnar device, which is actually 3-5 ms better than any of the results for the 2012 series.

The GT series is EU-only this year, but the main point is that it's using the same processor as the VT/ZT will be using (the supposed 6-core). It's potentially good news for anyone who was worried the higher latency of the ST60 would translate into even worse latency for the higher end models. So there's still hope for an at least decent latency flagship Panasonic this year.

Here's a link if you want to check out the review. They got even better numbers using the cloned timer test, but I still believe the lag testing device is more accurate. Decent numbers either way: http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panasonic-tx-p50gt60-201304052795.htm?page=Performance
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post #593 of 654
4/6/13 at 12:31am
Where can we expect to find results for the same test of all the North American models for this year?
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post #594 of 654
4/6/13 at 9:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mphfrom77 View Post

Where can we expect to find results for the same test of all the North American models for this year?

Edit: Just realized that the answer was already in the thread. I forgot that there's a US site dedicated to lag testing displays with this device: http://www.displaylag.com/

No way to know how long it'll be until they get some numbers for the 2012 models up there (I mean, most of them aren't even out yet obviously), but good chance they'll have stats for at least some of them up eventually. They have the VT, ST and UT from 2012.

As far as I know there's no regular US review site that actually does lag testing, especially not with the Leo Bodnar device (well Anandtech does, but they only review PC monitors).
Edited by headlesschickens - 4/6/13 at 9:32am
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post #595 of 654
4/6/13 at 3:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by headlesschickens View Post

I posted this on the ST60 thread, but it really belongs here:

A review for the EU version of the GT60 just came out on hdtvtest.co.uk, and their lag testing on this model revealed much better numbers than the ST60. 43ms from the Leo Bodnar device, which is actually 3-5 ms better than any of the results for the 2012 series.

The GT series is EU-only this year, but the main point is that it's using the same processor as the VT/ZT will be using (the supposed 6-core). It's potentially good news for anyone who was worried the higher latency of the ST60 would translate into even worse latency for the higher end models. So there's still hope for an at least decent latency flagship Panasonic this year.

Here's a link if you want to check out the review. They got even better numbers using the cloned timer test, but I still believe the lag testing device is more accurate. Decent numbers either way: http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panasonic-tx-p50gt60-201304052795.htm?page=Performance

This is great news if the VT60 = to the GT60uk model in IP lag. they both have the hexa processor so maybe that plays a role
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post #596 of 654
4/6/13 at 5:33pm
Hello everyone, I fully intend to update the database soon with 2013 sets. Had some personal issues last month so I had a bit of a delay. Thanks for finding the site useful!
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post #597 of 654
4/9/13 at 8:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FourWude View Post

Hello everyone, I fully intend to update the database soon with 2013 sets. Had some personal issues last month so I had a bit of a delay. Thanks for finding the site useful!

Any idea on how soon? Hopefully within my return period.
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post #598 of 654
4/9/13 at 3:46pm
This may not help anyone who was budgeting around an ST60 price, but I'll just leave this here: (edit: fixed link, copied the wrong URL)
http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Panasonic-VT65-VT60-TX-P55VT65B-P50VT65B-P65VT65B-3D-Plasma-TV_507/Review.html

Lag test results are on the bottom of the "Test Results" page if you want to jump straight there. 40ms using the Leo Bodnar device, bringing this one to 7-8ms less than the ST50 (well that depends on whose word you take, I've seen the ST50 said to be 40ms on the device as well). And they clarified something I wasn't aware of: Unlike the 2012 models, you can get the TV calibrated and then switch game mode on while in that calibrated video mode instead of being stuck with the terrible dynamic contrast of the "game" picture mode. So yeah, professionally calibrated low latency gaming on the VT60 (and I think we can now assume the ZT60 as well). The only thing I'm still waiting to hear is if they've sorted out the IR performance this year.
Edited by headlesschickens - 4/9/13 at 9:40pm
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post #599 of 654
4/9/13 at 7:20pm
You put a link up for the test results for the 50st50 european model.

Did you mean to put up the test results for the 50GT60B european model up? http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Panasonic-TX-P50GT60B-P42GT60B-3D-Plasma-Television-Review_505/Test_Results.html

That would make more sense based off the rest of your post.
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post #600 of 654
4/9/13 at 9:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mphfrom77 View Post

You put a link up for the test results for the 50st50 european model.

Did you mean to put up the test results for the 50GT60B european model up? http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Panasonic-TX-P50GT60B-P42GT60B-3D-Plasma-Television-Review_505/Test_Results.html

That would make more sense based off the rest of your post.

Whoops, messed that up. Had a lot of windows open and copied the wrong one. Meant to link this this review of the EU VT60 (called the VT65 over there):
http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Panasonic-VT65-VT60-TX-P55VT65B-P50VT65B-P65VT65B-3D-Plasma-TV_507/Review.html

It seems pretty likely that the latency numbers will carry over to the NA VT and (hopefully) ZT models.
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