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The Official Plasma Input Lag Thread. - Page 24

post #691 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by PogueSquadron View Post

Well good luck! I don't see why those results won't be accurate. Everything points to around 2 frames. We'll just have to see if it's 2 frames at the worst or around 2 frames at the best.

Thanks! Oh and i asked David & Jeff B on CNET if they did or could do the Leo Bodnar lag test on the ST30. DisplayLag.com's results were 32ms(HDMI)
using the same device, but i just want to make sure. I'm pretty excited! The S60 seems like an absolute beast. XD I wont need better black levels after this haha.
post #692 of 785
Yeah I know if you wind up being happy with it, I probably will be! I think my LCD might be pushing over 3 frames right now. It seems more sluggish than my monitor which is at 2-2.5 frames I think.
post #693 of 785
I hope Bodnar has a component-out measuring device in the works...
post #694 of 785
Edited for me being dumb. Question answered.
Edited by PogueSquadron - 6/20/13 at 7:15pm
post #695 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper View Post

I hope Bodnar has a component-out measuring device in the works...

This! And you know....I just fired up my PS3 using an HDMI cable on my S30....honestly, I'm having a hard time dealing with the 32ms of lag....In mega Man 9 for example, mega man feels a little sluggish, heavier and doesn't have those quick zippity 'on the dime' controls VS my lag free CRT. However, playing Mega man 9 on my Wii with component cables fairs better than HDMI! This is where the 16ms comes in, the controls just feel more quick, responsive and more intuitive. Overall, it makes the experience more fun. I've been fiddling around with quite a few games on my PS3 using an HDMI cable and this kind of crap really puts me off...every ms is crucial for fighters, even if your still doing well the controls still feel a bit off, like in Injustice for ex.

I truly hope the S60 gets a reduction in lag when using component, because at this point i'm just about ready to give up on HDMI all together, i don't care about 1080p capable games when i have to put up with another frame of lag which knocks the fun factor down quite a bit. Oh, and I just bought an official set of PS3 component cables off amazon a few minutes ago, so i'm going to do some comparisons between it and HDMI. I already know the component connection will fair better, i'm sure of it...I'm more interested in seeing if there's a knock in quality in regards to brightness, color and calirty for 720p based titles.

And I'm a little confused here....what other advantages does HDMI have over component PQ wise outside of being 1080p capable(which doesn't really matter to me, since 90% of Wii U games are most likely going to be 720p anyways)tongue.gif component is 1080'i' capable, but i hear that it would introduce a little bit of lag since the HDTV would have to de-interlace the signal.
Edited by WaveBoy - 6/21/13 at 1:40am
post #696 of 785
It isn't looking like the S60 has a lag reduction via component. A user attested to around 34ms of lag over component here. Via a Rock Band calibration, yes, but it's better than nothing.

I played some SMB on a CRT recently. Nothing will really compare to the responsiveness there. It's especially hard playing a game with even the tiniest bit of lag when it's a game you've played a thousand times.

Then again if another user found that the S60 does have a lag reduction via component, I'm all ears haha.
Edited by PogueSquadron - 6/21/13 at 8:08am
post #697 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by PogueSquadron View Post

It isn't looking like the S60 has a lag reduction via component. A user attested to around 34ms of lag over component here. Via a Rock Band calibration, yes, but it's better than nothing.

I played some SMB on a CRT recently. Nothing will really compare to the responsiveness there. It's especially hard playing a game with even the tiniest bit of lag when it's a game you've played a thousand times.

Yeah, i know what you mean....It's even worse when you finally get adjusted to lets say 2 frames of lag...And then you go back to your CRT and play the the same game lag free only to realise what you've been missing.... really, these hdtv's that are pushing 2 frames and up make it feel like you're playing a broken version of the game. Hell, I'd drop $800 for a device that destroys input lag all together, but they don't exsist.

What to do... XP Oh and just a heads up, if you're interested in LED's. Display Lag.com measured the 2013 Samsung 60hz 1080p LED UNF5000(goes up to 50")with 21ms in Game Mode using the Leo Bodnar tester. I'd be all for LED if it weren't for the terrible inherent motion blur. XP

At this point, i don't know what to do....My S30 is plagued with color issues and effed up gamma to the point where i wont even watch movies on it.lol
It's useless to me at this point. Either i get it pro calibrated(if that even fixes all of the issues) or go for the S60 which has NONE of the problems that my S30 has, including amazing blacks, a brighter picture and wider color gamut, and just deal with the 34ms....If anything, it will make one hell of a great tv for movies. lol:p

And sucks to hear that there's no reduction in lag when using component cables, i was hoping there would of been. sigh*
post #698 of 785
I hear your dilemma. The motion blur was what put me away from LCD's in the first place. My friends would try to tell me it's not that bad, but my friends also play quite different games than I do. I'm also an illustrator, so I notice visual things more easily than they do.

For the games I play, the blur would drive me crazy. It's not so bad in a 60fps shooter or something, where I really don't have any time to focus on blur, but even then, I'll notice that things come into focus when the action dies down. If I want to play something like Rayman or DKCR or even something like FF6 on the SNES...forget about it.

I think I'll be happy with the S60's input lag, though I do want to make sure. I want to at least compare it to my monitor, which I'm pretty sure is pushing 2-2.5 frames of lag. If my TV is significantly worse than my monitor, then I think I won't be worried at all.

And yeah...I think I'm just going to have to avoid CRTs entirely because it would just drive me absolutely insane. Or at least, just remember to play older games on the CRT, with newer games on the plasma. I'm usually okay if I play a game on a big screen exclusively, but lately, I feel like my TV just isn't cutting it.

Edit: Trying to test my current TV compared to my monitor. I think I finally got it right, because apparently my LCD's default res is 1360x768, not 1366x768 (which causes some weird problems). My monitor was consistently about 24-28ms ahead of the TV, so that may explain why the TV feels so sluggish. If my monitor is about 2 frames of lag as I've read, then I guess my TV is around 3.5 frames of lag (somewhere around 50ms+.
Edited by PogueSquadron - 6/21/13 at 10:50am
post #699 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by PogueSquadron View Post

I hear your dilemma. The motion blur was what put me away from LCD's in the first place. My friends would try to tell me it's not that bad, but my friends also play quite different games than I do. I'm also an illustrator, so I notice visual things more easily than they do.

For the games I play, the blur would drive me crazy. It's not so bad in a 60fps shooter or something, where I really don't have any time to focus on blur, but even then, I'll notice that things come into focus when the action dies down. If I want to play something like Rayman or DKCR or even something like FF6 on the SNES...forget about it.

I think I'll be happy with the S60's input lag, though I do want to make sure. I want to at least compare it to my monitor, which I'm pretty sure is pushing 2-2.5 frames of lag. If my TV is significantly worse than my monitor, then I think I won't be worried at all.

And yeah...I think I'm just going to have to avoid CRTs entirely because it would just drive me absolutely insane. Or at least, just remember to play older games on the CRT, with newer games on the plasma. I'm usually okay if I play a game on a big screen exclusively, but lately, I feel like my TV just isn't cutting it.

Edit: Trying to test my current TV compared to my monitor. I think I finally got it right, because apparently my LCD's default res is 1360x768, not 1366x768 (which causes some weird problems). My monitor was consistently about 24-28ms ahead of the TV, so that may explain why the TV feels so sluggish. If my monitor is about 2 frames of lag as I've read, then I guess my TV is around 3.5 frames of lag (somewhere around 50ms+.


I've made up my mind, and i'm just going to get the 55" S60(for Wii U & Bluray)at the end of July. I was playing around with my 2012 panny X5 the other day and aside from being brighter, i was suprised at how amazing the color gamut was Vs my s30's....

The X5 produced super rich, vibrant, saturated and vivid colors(With the color gamut set to HD and color mgmt OFF, via component with the Wii in 480p) that felt like they were going to leap right off the screen, not to mention the color gamut is a lot wider as well.... i then shifted back to my S30....VERY disapointing, the picture was just dull, dimmer, the colors look de-saturated, didn't have the oomph or intensity and flat out paled in comparison(The S30's colors do seem to look better on the PS3 when using an HDMI cable though)...With the X5 when playing the Wii through component(with color gamut set to HD, again 'SD' bumps up the lag by quite a bit) with video noise controls and color mgmt set to off, the controls felt a little over 2 frames(S30 using HDMI)....Makes sense i guess, since the UT50 and ST50 were in the 40-47ms range. But now somebody is saying that the U50 is 27ms, and the U54 is 23ms, which i find hard to believe but who am i to say. i haven't gone hands on with either.Yet somebody was actually complaining in another thread that the U50 felt sluggish compared to his CRT....Which would make sense as the X5 isn't even 23-27ms. i don't trust those figures.

But yeah, i think we just have to give in and realise that panny plasmas aren't going to get any lower than 32ms(HDMI). Like you said, leaping back to your CRT is a bad idea, for now get used to playing on your 3+ frame TV, so that when you finally DO make the purchase and test out your s60 you'll get a large noticable drop in lag . Just don't go back to your CRT(unless it's for retro gaming) and start doing comparisons! tongue.gif

Before i let my junky little S30 go, i'll be sure to do some of my own comparisons 'by feel' if there's any noticable lag with the S60 with HDMI & Component. But this won't be for another month, until then I'm going to watch movies and play Wii(+ Wii VC and retro NES+SNES) on my Sony 27" wega trinitron CRT SDTV hehe.
Edited by WaveBoy - 6/21/13 at 7:57pm
post #700 of 785
CRT's were so good. I really wish TV's could go back to being so basic and responsive and FAST like the CRT days. I don't miss the geometry issues, though.

Oh, btw, the U54 was reported 23 ms on DisplayLag, so that means it was Bodnar tested. It was recently added, too. I would trust them over anyone who simply claims it feels sluggish with no testing or data.

My friend has a LCD that I don't notice motion blur on, several actually and we've played fast fighting games on them. Actually, come to think of it, I haven't been bothered by any modern LCD's motion handling, but what bothered me more was the UT50 and ST60's motion in fast games. It was the first time I saw phosphor lag, which did blur the overall picture a bit more than I'm accustomed to, something I noticed more than any modern LCD blur. It was really distracting to me. The F8500 thankfully is much better in that regard and I'm not distracted in the slightest by it, yet it's still a slow TV.
post #701 of 785
I wish someone would just have a Kickstarter for the ultimate gamer's plasma TV haha. Minimal input lag, decent color and good motion. Nothing fancy. Just a good looking TV with low input lag. The U54 measured at 23ms, wow. I'm wondering if I should just try to find a U54 when I move out....but it's hard because the S60 sounds like it has much better PQ. What a balancing act.
post #702 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by PogueSquadron View Post

I wish someone would just have a Kickstarter for the ultimate gamer's plasma TV haha. Minimal input lag, decent color and good motion. Nothing fancy. Just a good looking TV with low input lag. The U54 measured at 23ms, wow. I'm wondering if I should just try to find a U54 when I move out....but it's hard because the S60 sounds like it has much better PQ. What a balancing act.

Panasonic has already made this in the ZT60 which has measured as low as 23ms LOL


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post #703 of 785
Doesn't the U54 have a louvre filtre, where i hear effects the picture quality in terms of depth, clarity, brightness, color ect.
And 24ms eh? What an oddity that the X5 is almost twice that amount....I'd Love to see the X5 get tested with the bodnar device. Also, the U50 was reported with 27ms? They don't sell either set online anymore, my only hope if i actually were to look for either set would be craigs list. forget that. :P
post #704 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by yaomizzle View Post

Panasonic has already made this in the ZT60 which has measured as low as 23ms LOL


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Damn....Yet it's too bad a 50-55" ZT60 will cost you 3 to 4 grand CAD.eek.gif Out of my price range.tongue.gif
post #705 of 785
If a 50-55" is available for 3k I'd avoid it at all costs since panasonic only make it in 60 and 65" lol


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post #706 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by yaomizzle View Post

If a 50-55" is available for 3k I'd avoid it at all costs since panasonic only make it in 60 and 65" lol


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lol Well, i don't need a 60" anyways, i'm either aiming for a 50 or a 55"
Ugh, input lag.....when will this giant frustrating BS ordeal finally come to an end?

Also, CNET said the U50's picture controls were bare bones...And i'm pretty sure it doesn't have any gamma presets either.
And correct me if i'm wrong but both the U50 and U54 don't come in 55"

As far as PQ goes, the S60 seems like a much safer bet, but damn that 34ms....23ms would be fantastic.
post #707 of 785
It is over. Just not on the cheaper sets


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post #708 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by yaomizzle View Post

It is over. Just not on the cheaper sets


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as far as i'm concerned it aint over until we get plasma hdtv's that go below 16ms. wink.gif
Hell, we can't even get 16ms capable sets unless you're a panasonic S30/ST30(using only component cables) OR you're pulling that 'PC input HDMI trick' on the sammy's which locks out half the picture controls.lol

Oh, and i just found two 'open box' 50" U54 panasonic plasmas in my area on craigs list for only $499. tongue.gif
So the option is there, for me until i make the decision later on in July. The $499 price tag and 23ms of lag are very appealing, but i'm put off that it has an anti reflective screen filtre, is 50" instead of 55" and has zero gamma presets. bummer!
http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/van/eld/3856146943.html

BTW, where does it say that the U50 is 23ms?....Display Lag.com only has the U54 listed with 27ms.
If these results are true for the U50, than i guess it's officially the fastest Panasonic plasma there is for gaming, forget the ST30 & S30, they have to rely on component to get that 16ms. Otherwise, using HDMI gives you 32ms.
Edited by WaveBoy - 6/23/13 at 8:49am
post #709 of 785
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by yaomizzle View Post

Panasonic has already made this in the ZT60 which has measured as low as 23ms LOL


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Huh? The ZT60 is ~47ms on the Bodnar.
post #710 of 785
You know, I'm kind of kicking myself for not getting the S'T'30 rather than the S30 when i had the chance. The ST30 seems to correct many of the S30's flaws like giving you gamma presets(2.2. ding!), Color presets, white balance control, 3D, deeper blacks, better picture processing and 1080 lines of motion resolution....I avoided the ST30 because of it's louvre filtre which assumed knocked down the brightness, de-saturated colors and reduced clarity and depth.

At this point, i'd be happy with a 55" ST30. Like the S30, i'm guessing it's capable of that 1 frame of lag through component....where as with the S60, i'd be stuck with 2 frames. XP
S60 or ST30, vhat to do.tongue.gif
Edited by WaveBoy - 7/3/13 at 9:31am
post #711 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

You know, I'm kind of kicking myself for not getting the S'T'30 rather than the S30 when i had the chance. The ST30 seems to correct many of the S30's flaws like giving you gamma presets(2.2. ding!), Color presets, white balance control, 3D, deeper blacks, better picture processing and 1080 lines of motion resolution....I avoided the ST30 because of it's louvre filtre which assumed knocked down the brightness, de-saturated colors and reduced clarity and depth.

At this point, i'd be happy with a 55" ST30. Like the S30, i'm guessing it's capable of that 1 frame of lag through component....where as with the S60, i'd be stuck with 2 frames.

You are about 3 months too late sold mine but yeah the ST30 is a solid set, have you looked for one ? My experience with louvre filters has been positive
post #712 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

You are about 3 months too late sold mine but yeah the ST30 is a solid set, have you looked for one ? My experience with louvre filters has been positive

Craigslist in my area doesn't seem to have any up for Sale, there's one person on eBay.ca selling a 55" ST30 for a little over $500 but it's in Ontario and pick up-only.
How would the ST30 fare against the S60? I'm guessing the S60 has the advantage in color saturation, the gamut being wider and the color itself being more accurate, brightness and blacks, where as the ST30 has 10+ white balance, 3D, 1 frame of lag via component, 800 lines of motion res vs the S60's 700 ect ect.
post #713 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

Craigslist in my area doesn't seem to have any up for Sale, there's one person on eBay.ca selling a 55" ST30 for a little over $500 but it's in Ontario and pick up-only.
How would the ST30 fare against the S60? I'm guessing the S60 has the advantage in color saturation, the gamut being wider and the color itself being more accurate, brightness and blacks, where as the ST30 has 10+ white balance, 3D, 1 frame of lag via component, 800 lines of motion res vs the S60's 700 ect ect.

Defintely superior blacks, color probably a little more accurate. The ST30 only has two point white balance but can be dialed in pretty well. I think the biggest advantage over the S30 is the gamma control that is significant. 3d was pretty good on the ST30
post #714 of 785
Is using VGA still a factor like it was on DLP sets?
post #715 of 785
I need input lag tests on 65 to 75 inch plasma TV's.... No one has done them yet.
post #716 of 785
Are you saying that input lag could vary by screen size, within the same model line? Or just that nothing over 65" has been tested? Do they make plasmas larger than 65"?
Edited by mphfrom77 - 7/18/13 at 4:28pm
post #717 of 785
post #718 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by mphfrom77 View Post

Are you saying that input lag could vary by screen size, within the same model line? Or just that nothing over 65" has been tested? Do they make plasmas larger than 65"?

I'm not sure but maybe size matters. Just guessing but bigger TV with the same processor might slow it down a little. I think in a couple months we will know for sure and it will prove me wrong! haha, I think most people cant afford 3-5k TV's so the focus is on smaller HDTV's . I'm going to use the amazon link from the one data base that help me decide which TV to get. I think they get like 2% from amazon when you go through a link. I''ll ask him to be sure and let you guys know. smile.gif

I think plasmas are up to 65 inch so no on the above 65 inch question.
post #719 of 785
I'm afraid of burn in on long gaming sessions with the plasmas so I'm going to get a LCD. I'm I wrong? I gaming for 6-8 a night some times and dont want to burn in a 4k plama! eek.gif
post #720 of 785
AS some one pointed to me, each game might be different as far as burn in. For example if you die a lot, the HUD goes away.

There is a lot of info here in the plasma section. It's obvious you are new to this section. Peruse it and you will find a lot of helpful info.

It is unclear what you are looking for in a TV.

The 65" 34ms of input lag Panasonic S60 is $1288 on Amazon.

Those sites you listed have been discussed in this thread and others. Cnet is also going to start giving input lag figures with their reviews.

Good luck.
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