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The best 7.1 analog output- blu-ray player? - Page 2

post #31 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nascar_984 View Post

http://www.modwright.com/modifications/14



Any measurements to back up these claims? Why do people always assume that a MOD will be better?

... because it says so right there in the ad! If it says it, it must be true ...
post #32 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca1ore View Post

... because it says so right there in the ad! If it says it, it must be true ...

Indeed, I mean why would anyone in the audio industry make things up? $$$$$$$$$
post #33 of 153
Modwright has an impeccable reputation. Have any of you critics ever heard one of their components?
post #34 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregor Samsa View Post

Modwright has an impeccable reputation. Have any of you critics ever heard one of their components?

Reputation with who? People who think they are getting night and day differences with secret mods that only these "audiophiles" know of? All of this is 100% subjective and I would like to see some measurements to see if they even improve on the stock performance of the oppo.
post #35 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nascar_984 View Post

Reputation with who? People who think they are getting night and day differences with secret mods that only these "audiophiles" know of? All of this is 100% subjective and I would like to see some measurements to see if they even improve on the stock performance of the oppo.

Have you ever heard one of their components?
post #36 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregor Samsa View Post

Modwright has an impeccable reputation. Have any of you critics ever heard one of their components?

My comment was intended as a tongue-in-cheek response to the 'if it is modded it must be better' mentality that seems so pervasive amongst audio/videophiles. I do not own a modwright modified player, but I do have more than my fair share of modded players, and I just think one needs to go into this with eyes open. I imagine what they do to the analog outputs may make an appreciable difference - particularly with a player like the Oppo - but changing the power supply. Well, inaudible to me, at least.
post #37 of 153
Wow, that mod costs 2 times more than player itself. It better be something "fantastic", "night and day different", "blowing out of the water". Otherwise, screw that mod!
post #38 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by giedrys View Post

Wow, that mod costs 2 times more than player itself. It better be something "fantastic", "night and day different", "blowing out of the water". Otherwise, screw that mod!

Well, if it makes a difference, the cost may well have value to some folks. Shoot, Lexicon is rumored to be releasing a re-badged Oppo and selling it for 7 times the price. Presumably any changes versus the stock Oppo would be along the same lines as these kinds of mods, plus a nicer case/faceplate.
post #39 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregor Samsa View Post

Have you ever heard one of their components?

As I stated already a subjective view is irrelevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ca1ore View Post

Well, if it makes a difference, the cost may well have value to some folks. Shoot, Lexicon is rumored to be releasing a re-badged Oppo and selling it for 7 times the price. Presumably any changes versus the stock Oppo would be along the same lines as these kinds of mods, plus a nicer case/faceplate.

But do these mods change anything for the better or is lexicon changing anything?
post #40 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nascar_984 View Post

As I stated already a subjective view is irrelevant.



But do these mods change anything for the better or is lexicon changing anything?

An opinion about the sound of a component by someone who has never heard the component is irrelevant.
post #41 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregor Samsa View Post

An opinion about the sound of a component by someone who has never heard the component is irrelevant.

Do you think cables make a difference? I want to know why you think these mods will have a sonic impact for the better or worse.
post #42 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nascar_984 View Post

As I stated already a subjective view is irrelevant. But do these mods change anything for the better or is lexicon changing anything?

If by 'subjective' you mean actually taking the time to view and listen, then it most certainly is not irrelevant. If people wish to assume modifications make no differnece, that is fine. I prefer to take the time to actually see/hear for myself - even if I am skeptical going in.

Nobody yet knows anything sunstantive about the Lexicon, including, whether it is really based on the Oppo (seems a reasonable guess, given the layout of the rear panel however). Who knows what Lexicon will do to the player beyond a cosmetic upgrade, and whether those things will make any sunstantive difference.

I've done enough comparisons of the Oppo as a digital transport against much more expensive spinners to be comfortable that it'll not be surpassed, but time will tell. Using the Oppo's analog outputs is a different story, so perhaps that is where Lexicon can separate themselves (much as, presumably, Mearantz will do with their $6K player).
post #43 of 153
As a follow up on my earlier question regarding analog lip sync correction, I received my Oppo yesterday, and I can confirm Bachelor's post that the delay setting for HDMI also works for the analog outputs!
Oppo's analog multichannel output is definitely a step up from my Sony 550.
I purchased three used DBX 3BX series III dynamic range expanders off of Ebay (each handles two channels...production stopped in the 80s), and I am using those to process the 5.1 output from the Oppo...really adds life to concerts, especially the impact restoration circuit. I had to try this after getting accustomed to SACD, DVDA, and DBX processed vinyl albums, and noticing that many CDs now just seemed lifeless to me. (The Sony 550 DBX processed output still didn't better over all the HDMI sound from my Marantz 8003 prepro).
I'm a happy camper now!
Paul

After playing around with the delay setting, I determined the analog delay doesn't seem to work.
During setup, I had set the delay to 120, my setting with my prepro for HDMI, and I didn't notice any sync problems using the analog out.Today I changed the setting from 0 to 200, and didn't notice any change on analog delay.
I guess I'll notice a sync issue when I play a problem disk...no such problem watching David Gillmore though, and this is using a Panny 3000 with the frame interpolation on high (which usually increases sync issues).
My bad on jumping to conclusions.
post #44 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca1ore View Post

If by 'subjective' you mean actually taking the time to view and listen, then it most certainly is not irrelevant. If people wish to assume modifications make no differnece, that is fine. I prefer to take the time to actually see/hear for myself - even if I am skeptical going in.

Nobody yet knows anything sunstantive about the Lexicon, including, whether it is really based on the Oppo (seems a reasonable guess, given the layout of the rear panel however). Who knows what Lexicon will do to the player beyond a cosmetic upgrade, and whether those things will make any sunstantive difference.

I've done enough comparisons of the Oppo as a digital transport against much more expensive spinners to be comfortable that it'll not be surpassed, but time will tell. Using the Oppo's analog outputs is a different story, so perhaps that is where Lexicon can separate themselves (much as, presumably, Mearantz will do with their $6K player).

If there is a difference it would be measureable and picked out 100% of the time in a double blind test.
post #45 of 153
Hi Doug

No, it wouldn't.
post #46 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nascar_984 View Post

If there is a difference it would be measureable and picked out 100% of the time in a double blind test.

sounds like you need a refresher in stats my friend,
post #47 of 153
I think it would be Denon-A1UD but never try 7.1 analog outputs yet.
post #48 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nascar_984 View Post

If there is a difference it would be measureable and picked out 100% of the time in a double blind test.

Well, there have been long and tedious debates on AVS between 'objectivists' and 'subjectivists' that leave me cold. My view is that it is foolish to ignore measurments, but equally foolish to think that what we can meaasure fully accounts for perfomance differences. I'll take the time to actually listen to a component to see if I can perceive a difference.
post #49 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

No, it wouldn't.

So you just assume that something is better or different? How do you know that the parts used in the mods are better? Is it just blind luck and random?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denophile View Post

sounds like you need a refresher in stats my friend,

What stats, that subjective listening is not accurate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ca1ore View Post

Well, there have been long and tedious debates on AVS between 'objectivists' and 'subjectivists' that leave me cold. My view is that it is foolish to ignore measurments, but equally foolish to think that what we can meaasure fully accounts for perfomance differences. I'll take the time to actually listen to a component to see if I can perceive a difference.

There is one big problem, the subjective side does not bring anything to the discussion and can not even replicate their listening findings in a controlled listening test.
post #50 of 153
I only assume that nothing is accurate 100% of the time.
post #51 of 153
The best blu-ray player with 7.1 analog outs is the Sony BDP-S5000ES. It has been tested against the Pioneer Elite 09 and the Denon 3800. The sony was proven the best sounding.
post #52 of 153
I think you'd better run that one by "Nascar".
post #53 of 153
[quote=Nascar_984;17122914]
What stats, that subjective listening is not accurate?
QUOTE]

um how many studies can you quote that show something happens 100% of the time? what youre looking for is a statistically significant difference.

like i said. brush up on stats.
post #54 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denophile View Post

um how many studies can you quote that show something happens 100% of the time? what youre looking for is a statistically significant difference.

like i said. brush up on stats.

Then post up some links/stats that point to a better analog sounding blu ray player.
post #55 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nascar_984 View Post

Then post up some links/stats that point to a better analog sounding blu ray player.

How about you post up some links that prove that tests are always 100% accurate? Or that any given group equivocally decide they cannot tell a difference between A and B?

My only point in posting this, is neither of you can support your claim, because it is easier said than done, but that Deno's post just makes sense, because nothing is 100%.
post #56 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaby View Post

The best blu-ray player with 7.1 analog outs is the Sony BDP-S5000ES. It has been tested against the Pioneer Elite 09 and the Denon 3800. The sony was proven the best sounding.

I am curious about claims like this one. Care to post a link to the test information - how the testing was done, who did it, and the results? And, when you say "best sounding", what does that mean?
post #57 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

denon 2010/marantz 7004 have nice analogue sections as well

I agree with these two recomendations, I am considering one of these for my Classe, B&W set up.
post #58 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanaticalism View Post

How about you post up some links that prove that tests are always 100% accurate? Or that any given group equivocally decide they cannot tell a difference between A and B?

My only point in posting this, is neither of you can support your claim, because it is easier said than done, but that Deno's post just makes sense, because nothing is 100%.

Tests as in measurements are always 100% accurate, do you have any objective data that shows why one analog section would sound better or different then another?
post #59 of 153
If your AMP or receiver won't do analog EQ (room correction) the best sounding player is probably the one that has the most complete configuration abilities.
post #60 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nascar_984 View Post

Tests as in measurements are always 100% accurate,

Your statement is 100% absurd on the face of it.
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