AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › DIY Speakers and Subs › Looking for DIY Sub Advice < $500
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Looking for DIY Sub Advice < $500

post #1 of 40
7/30/09 at 9:44am
Thread Starter 
Well after trolling about in this forum (and others) for a few weeks, I've been unable to pinpoint what I really want out of a diy sub. I'm hoping you folks here don't mind giving me some advice.

FWIW, here's what I'm working with now:

Receiver: JVC RX-DV31SL (http://support.jvc.com/consumer/prod...1&archive=true) The LFE is set at 80hz.
Center: Polk CS 100
R/L Mains: Polk Monitor - 6" 2way ported (matched to the cs 100)
Surrounds: Atlantic Tech. dipoles.
Sub: dbx sw-15 (yes, the DAK special in all of its melamine finished glory). An Eosone RS 910 amp is driving the dbx sub from the receiver's LFE/sub out.

All of this is running in our living room which is roughly 13' x 26' (carpeted. 8' popcorn ceiling). Main listening position is approx 17' back from the front speakers (which are set on one of the 13' walls). Surrounds are just behind/above the main listening/viewing position (aka, the couch).

I'm not looking for bone jarring / teeth rattling bass for HT... and to be completely honest I think I want a sub that leans more towards accurate bass reproduction (i.e. more "musical" if you will). The wife unit and I may watch a couple of movies every week (after the kids go to bed).

I guess that the two primary motivations for upgrading my sub are 1) aesthetics - the dbx passive sub is 19x19x22 and is simply ugly (especially since my 2 year old has figured out how to peel the melamine vinyl coating off of it with her teeth) and 2) I'm not sure that the dbx sub / Eosone amp combo was a good idea to begin with.

Considering the equipment I have (which I know isn't top-o-the-line and is not likely to be upgraded anytime soon) I don't want to "overbuild" the sub.

And yes, whatever I do must pass aesthetic muster with SWMBO. She's tolerated the dbx sub for 14 years of marriage (clearly I bought it when I was single and free... but I digress).

One thing I considered... I have a 1960's Zenith Console Stereo (which, amazingly, still works). I'd thought about hiding a sub in there... but I don't want to cut it up too much.

What do y'all think I can do for less than $500 (preferably, way less)?

Peace!
Bengoshi2000

FYI - I'm reasonably good with tools and have a good friend with a very well equipped wood shop.
Reply
Reply

AVS Top Picks

post #2 of 40
7/30/09 at 10:06am
How about a Dayton RSS390HO in a 17" cube with the O Audio 500W amp?
Reply
Reply
post #3 of 40
7/30/09 at 11:08am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

How about a Dayton RSS390HO in a 17" cube with the O Audio 500W amp?

I definitely like that combo... looks like that would be about $400 (giving me some headroom for aesthetics). I'm particularly fond of the EQ on that amp. I assume you are suggesting a sealed sub?

Could that driver be oriented in a down firing position (so I could disguise it as an end table)? (If I did it as a front firing sub, I'm afraid that my two year old would poke out the driver.)
Reply
Reply
post #4 of 40
7/30/09 at 11:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bengoshi2000 View Post

I definitely like that combo... looks like that would be about $400 (giving me some headroom for aesthetics). I'm particularly fond of the EQ on that amp. I assume you are suggesting a sealed sub?

Could that driver be oriented in a down firing position (so I could disguise it as an end table)? (If I did it as a front firing sub, I'm afraid that my two year old would poke out the driver.)

Correct, and yes. I love that woofer, it works great in smaller boxes and still achieves fairly deep high output results.
Reply
Reply
post #5 of 40
7/30/09 at 11:16am
Why not take advantage of the huge ACI 12" woofer discount and put two of them in a box, drive them to insane levels with a EP2500??

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...oducts_id=8639

You get no box resonance if you use two and with the EP2500 you have a sub $500 sub that can not be beat IMO.
Reply
Reply
post #6 of 40
7/30/09 at 11:20am
I'm not sure exactly what the OPs size restrictions are, but those ACI woofers need abut 4.2 ft3 each sealed.
Reply
Reply
post #7 of 40
7/30/09 at 11:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

I'm not sure exactly what the OPs size restrictions are, but those ACI woofers need abut 4.2 ft3 each sealed.

dont know either but 4 cuft is only 2x2x1 Twins would be pretty good for under $500.
Reply
Reply
post #8 of 40
7/30/09 at 11:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

dont know either but 4 cuft is only 2x2x1 Twins would be pretty good for under $500.

Right, but what about 8 ft3
Reply
Reply
post #9 of 40
7/30/09 at 11:32am
Kevin over at www.diycable.com has a nice package deal on the Shiva x and a passive radiator for $235,You can check it out here...http://www.diycable.com/main/product...roducts_id=691
Reply
Reply
post #10 of 40
7/30/09 at 11:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

Right, but what about 8 ft3

Two 4 cuft boxes, use them as stands for his polk Monitor speakers
Reply
Reply
post #11 of 40
7/30/09 at 11:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCARCIO View Post

Kevin over at www.diycable.com has a nice package deal on the Shiva x and a passive radiator for $235,You can check it out here...http://www.diycable.com/main/product...roducts_id=691

its okay but I like when drivers are 50% off.
Reply
Reply
post #12 of 40
7/30/09 at 12:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCARCIO View Post

Kevin over at www.diycable.com has a nice package deal on the Shiva x and a passive radiator for $235,You can check it out here...http://www.diycable.com/main/product...roducts_id=691

Not much of a shipping deal....$50.00 for ground to Tampa Bay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

You get no box resonance if you use two and with the EP2500 you have a sub $500 sub that can not be beat IMO.

Penngray, are you referring to push/pull, opposiing sides, or does dual front mount eliminate box resonance?
Reply
Reply
post #13 of 40
7/30/09 at 12:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkman2 View Post

Not much of a shipping deal....$82.00 for ground to Tampa Bay.



Penngray, are you referring to push/pull, opposiing sides, or does dual front mount eliminate box resonance?

if its in one box, opposing sides.
Reply
Reply
post #14 of 40
7/30/09 at 12:46pm
How does that eliminate resonance penn?
Reply
Reply
post #15 of 40
7/30/09 at 3:54pm
Simply put, the 12" ShivaX in 6.5 cuft tuned to 17hz with the Bash500 amp from PE is about as good as it gets in you budget. Build a downfiring end table to protect the driver from pets and children, making it functional as well. A 25" wide and deep enclosure with 3" feet and 25" overall height gives you a functional table and the needed intrnal volume. Maybe an inset glass top or ceramic tile, Oak plywood constuction with hardwood corners extending as the legs. Simple build, no veneer or paint and plenty of bass for a room that size at moderate levels. Materials and all should be less than $500. For a room that size and on a budget, sealed isn't gonna do it IMO.
Reply
Reply
post #16 of 40
7/30/09 at 7:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Why not take advantage of the huge ACI 12" woofer discount and put two of them in a box, drive them to insane levels with a EP2500??

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...oducts_id=8639

You get no box resonance if you use two and with the EP2500 you have a sub $500 sub that can not be beat IMO.


Penn, your post is causing me confusion

A SV12 will exceed xmax @ 25hz with only 100 watts. Why recommend the EP2500?

Or am I missing something?

Reply
Reply
post #17 of 40
8/3/09 at 11:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mayhem13 View Post

Simply put, the 12" ShivaX in 6.5 cuft tuned to 17hz with the Bash500 amp from PE is about as good as it gets in you budget. Build a downfiring end table to protect the driver from pets and children, making it functional as well. A 25" wide and deep enclosure with 3" feet and 25" overall height gives you a functional table and the needed intrnal volume. Maybe an inset glass top or ceramic tile, Oak plywood constuction with hardwood corners extending as the legs. Simple build, no veneer or paint and plenty of bass for a room that size at moderate levels. Materials and all should be less than $500. For a room that size and on a budget, sealed isn't gonna do it IMO.

Do you know of any pics, or detailed designs for something like this? I've been interested in building a sub for a while and WAF is important.
Reply
Reply
post #18 of 40
8/3/09 at 11:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

I'm not sure exactly what the OPs size restrictions are, but those ACI woofers need abut 4.2 ft3 each sealed.

Not really, I put a pair into a 5.2 cu ft box and they crank. You have to add some EQ down low but I was able to get it flat to 20hz with only 1 channel of a QSC PLX2502.

If using the EP2500 you only need 1 channel to get them to sing like bandits. bridged would be too much unless you add a HPF.
Reply
Reply
post #19 of 40
8/3/09 at 12:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

Not really, I put a pair into a 5.2 cu ft box and they crank. You have to add some EQ down low but I was able to get it flat to 20hz with only 1 channel of a QSC PLX2502.

If using the EP2500 you only need 1 channel to get them to sing like bandits. bridged would be too much unless you add a HPF.

Of course they will work in a smaller box, you just get a Q of .819 instead of .707.
Reply
Reply
post #20 of 40
8/3/09 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

Of course they will work in a smaller box, you just get a Q of .819 instead of .707.

Even at a Q of .7 it only offers extension to 32hz instead of 38 for a 2.5 cu ft box. Either one would benefit greatly from some sort of EQ to boost the low end.

I only used a 5 cu ft box as that is what I already had lying around but if I were to make a new box then 4 cu ft for a pair would be sufficient.

I like the idea of opposing the drivers as well to cancel out vibrations from the box. This is what I will probably do.
Reply
Reply
post #21 of 40
8/3/09 at 4:12pm
You know what also models out nicely is the ACI SV10 which madisound also has for $56.

In a 4.4 cu ft box tuned to 20hz you get about 106dbs at 20hz with only 400 watts. Not bad for a decent sized box and the price is very nice.

If I were you I would definitely try to work in 2 subs in separate enclosures as it is easier to get better results than with a single sub. It is not just for SPL but you can get smoother response with multiple subs that can be difficult if not impossible in some rooms. I would rather have 2 smaller subs in the right locations than 1 larger sub in a less than optimal location.
Reply
Reply
post #22 of 40
8/3/09 at 5:17pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the replies folks... keep 'em coming...

As far as the WAF goes, this is the look I'll be shooting for: http://www.garagehobbies.com/tempest.aspx

I've decided to abide by the KISS method and go with a sealed box (less variables that I can frak up).

I'm also pretty well settled on the O Audio 500w amp (due to the parametric EQ). The separate/rack mountable amps are nifty, but none have on board EQ in my price range (and besides, I don't have a good place to hide one).

When it comes to drivers, I'm still undecided. I started playing with WinISD, and I'm finding myself confused by some of the results I'm getting. For example, the ACI SV12 models out with a 113.44L (4.0 cu/ft box). The Shiva-X to a 73.9L (2.6 cu/ft box). But the Dayton 12" HO models out to a 17L box (which converts to .6 cu/ft)... and that just can't be right??!?? What am I doing wrong?

Right now I'm leaning strongly towards the ACI SV12 due to the sale price @ Madisound (although now I notice they are out of stock).
Reply
Reply
post #23 of 40
8/3/09 at 6:00pm
Madisound may be out of stock forever of the SV12's, you may want to e-mail them and find out but I think they bought the remaining stock from ACI so they may have been a closeout.
Reply
Reply
post #24 of 40
8/3/09 at 7:39pm
Thread Starter 
Hmmmmm...

What about a pair of the ACI SV10's (from Madisound) each in its own 1 cu/ft box and driven by one side of a Crown XLS 202?
Reply
Reply
post #25 of 40
8/3/09 at 10:31pm
For $112 + shipping the SV10's may be worth it to try out.

The F3 in a 1.2 cu ft box is about 37hz so you will want to add some boost down low. About 100 watts each will do but you have to also add a HPF at about 24hz to keep the driver within it's excursion limits.

It might be fine without a boost down low with a corner placement and room gain but I would guess maybe upper 20's at best.

I am not crazy about 10" woofers unless you are using a bunch of them but then again I am a bass head.

I personally would rather go 4 SV10, 2 in each 2.4 cu ft box. This would probably be pretty sweet for all but the biggest bass heads but I would guess it would be better for music than movies. Even 4 1.2 cu ft boxes would work as well and be small enough to hide.

I really do like the SV12's but they sound a lot better boosting the low end and a 17hz HPF which I set up in my Velodyne SMS-1. I would venture to guess the SV10's are really nice as well, just more musically oriented than movie but who knows.
Reply
Reply
post #26 of 40
8/5/09 at 6:44am
Thread Starter 
OK... mayhem13 got me to looking at ported designs and I'm getting a bit giddy over those using a Shiva-X: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=51979.0

...specifically this design:


This design is about as large as I can go before the SWMBO starts giving me "that look..." Building this and driving it with the O Audio 300w amp would also fall well within my price range. I'm willing to live with the trade-offs when compared to the dual/triple port design.

The reservations I have are: 1) whether dimensions would need to be changed to orient this in a down-firing position, and 2) would it work with the O Audio 300w amp? (I can't determine if that amp has a subsonic/hpf that would protect the Shiva-x from unloading).

I'm also finding myself equally impressed with the sealed enclosures with the Shiva-X: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=51630.0

I like the size of design #1:


But I believe that I'd need to use the O Audio 500w amp to flatten out the low end. Again, I want to know if dimensions would need to be tweaked to re-orient this design for down firing.

In either ported or sealed applications, what is the optimum floor to driver distance for a down firing sub?
Reply
Reply
post #27 of 40
8/5/09 at 11:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bengoshi2000 View Post

OK... mayhem13 got me to looking at ported designs and I'm getting a bit giddy over those using a Shiva-X: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=51979.0

Haha, so he's doing it to you eh? Mayhem13 has been tons of help to me. I'm working on my first DIY sub currently, and my thread should be up soon. I was originally going to go with the Shiva-x but I'm in Canada, so the CSS SDx15 was a better choice, for slightly more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bengoshi2000 View Post

The reservations I have are: 1) whether dimensions would need to be changed to orient this in a down-firing position, and 2) would it work with the O Audio 300w amp? (I can't determine if that amp has a subsonic/hpf that would protect the Shiva-x from unloading).

Tthe 300w version of the Oaudio amp doesn't have a subsonic filter, not that I can see anyways. I couldn't find information on it in the manual or the pictures. Can anyone else confirm this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bengoshi2000 View Post

I'm also finding myself equally impressed with the sealed enclosures with the Shiva-X: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=51630.0

Both are nice. Mayhem was actually telling me that ported would be a good idea, but I decided against it because of my room size / requirements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bengoshi2000 View Post

In either ported or sealed applications, what is the optimum floor to driver distance for a down firing sub?

As far as I know, 1.5" spikes/feet would work fine. That works out to about 3.8cm off the ground, plus the driver will be recessed.

I'm not really sure about your other questions since I'm also relatively new to this stuff. I don't want to answer anything I'm not sure of .
Reply
Reply
post #28 of 40
8/5/09 at 2:09pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mayhem13 View Post

... with 3" feet and 25" overall height ...

I just noticed this from mayhem13's post above (regarding floor distance for a down firing sub).
Reply
Reply
post #29 of 40
8/5/09 at 2:58pm
Yes Ben, Downfiring the Shiva is no problem, just leave enough clearance. I like to use 1/4" the driver diameter as the minimum when considering smaller drivers, more when very high xmax is given. The downfiring option gives you lots of options with the enclosure top, say a table top for functionality as well. You could put false drawer/door fronts on it for even higher WAF. Get creative, that's where the fun is.
Reply
Reply
post #30 of 40
8/6/09 at 12:44pm
Thread Starter 
Anyone know anything about these plate amps?

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/produc...-6262-/50-6262
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: DIY Speakers and Subs

AVS Top Picks

AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › DIY Speakers and Subs › Looking for DIY Sub Advice < $500