Canon HF20 / HF200 Official Owner's Thread - Page 23

I complained to Canon about this, and there answer was it wasn't going to be fixed.... It was not an issue when camera was developed...

So much for customer support!!!

I'm using PPRO CS5 for edit, and Encore to create BluRay disks....

I have shown my footage to others who use FCP and Compressor, and the Results I've seen on BluRay on Encore exceeds FCP and Compressor.
I was told that Compressor max's out at 35Mb/sec. Encore will go to 40Mb/sec.

I was shooting 1080i/29.97 at 24Mb/sec so bandwidth difference should not have made a difference, but I felt BluRay's from FCP/Compressor had some lag/smear to the video on the BluRay...

I'd be interested in other's comments

It is not an issue indeed. Lots of older models of camcorders and digicams cannot use Class 10 cards, so Class2, 4 and 6 cards are still available.

Having recently discovered this forum, I just wanted to post a warning that the Canon Legria HF20/HF200 (PAL version) isn't iMovie 09 friendly although the Canon Vixia HF20 (NTSC version) works fine. You will note that while the NTSC version is listed on Apple's official list of supported camcorders, the PAL version isn't.

The bottom line appears to be as follows:

With the PAL version, iMovie 09 incorrectly tags the 50i content as being progressive, and the 25p content as being interlaced. In contrast, with the NTSC version, iMovie apparently correctly identifies the 60i content as being interlaced and the 30p content as being progressive.

This results in the following outcomes:

For 50i content:

- When the 50i content is previewed in iMovie, it shows the horizontal combing effect on fast motion content as iMovie thinks that it is progressive and doesn’t do its normal adjustments (as it does for the Vixia version) when displaying interlaced footage.
- If you play the AIC file in Quicktime X, the interlacing lines also are visible, as Quicktime doesn’t know that it is interlaced footage.
- When the 50i content is exported from iMovie, the progressive tag remains on the file. Therefore, if the footage is played in Quicktime X the horizontal combing effect remains, as Quicktime once again doesn’t know that it is interlaced footage.
- When the ‘Deinterlace Source Video’ option is selected when exporting from iMovie using 'Export using Quicktime', the footage doesn’t get deinterlaced as iMovie identifies the footage as being progressive.

For 25p content:

- When 25p content is displayed in iMovie, it appears to display properly. It also displays properly if exported from iMovie and viewed in Quicktime X, despite the fact that it is incorrectly tagged as being interlaced.
- However, an issue arises with the 25p content if a special effect is applied within iMovie that alters frame size (ie. Stabilize, PIP, Crop, Ken Burns effect, Wipes, Ripple, Zoom etc). These special effects are referred to as scaling effects. Normally, if scaling effects are applied to interlaced 1080 footage, iMovie deinterlaces the content from 1080i to 540p. This has been a deliberate feature in iMovie since iMovie 09 (Version 8.0.0) to avoid scaling artifacts associated with interlaced footage when a scaling effect has been applied.
- In relation to progressive content, iMovie doesn’t normally make any adjustment to the resolution when scaling effects are applied as scaling artifacts aren’t an issue for progressive content. However, as a consequence of iMovie incorrectly tagging the 25p content as being interlaced, iMovie will treat the footage as interlaced footage when special effects are applied, and unnecessarily reduce the resolution from 1080 to 540. Obviously, this is a bad outcome as it means that the resolution is unnecessarily reduced by half.

I have also tried using VoltaicHD as an alternative to capture the video, but interestingly the same problem arises.

As I purchased the camera to specifically use with iMovie, this has been a major disappointment to say the least.

I knew that prior to purchasing the Camera that the PAL version wasn't on Apple's list of iMovie 09 supported Camcorders, but I was told by Canon that I shouldn't be concerned by this as Apple probably just didn't get around to testing the PAL version. They also indicated that they weren't aware of any issues with using the camera with iMovie 09.

1) Most NLEs treat progressive video within interlaced container as interlaced.
2) Most NLEs preview both fields of a frame ("weave" deinterlacing), no matter whether video is progressive or interlaced. Some NLEs are smarter, for example Vegas uses only one field when preview window is set to "half-frame". This avoids combing, but reduces temporal rate of native interlaced video.
3) Because of the above, 50i is displayed with combing artifacts, while 25p is not.
4) To render out properly, mark your project and/or source clips as interlaced for 50i/60i, and as progressive for PF25/PF30.

Thanks for your response, I address your points below:
1) That is true for many other camcorders but not for the HF20. The glitch with the Legria HF20 is that it treats 50i as progressive and 25p as interlaced. I have verified this using some specialty software to view the field information in the AIC files. This has also been verified by some fairly knowledgeable people on the Apple Support Forum. Also, with the Vixia HF20 (i.e. the NTSC version) this anomaly doesn't occur (ie. 60i is treated as interlaced and 30p is treated as progressive). This suggests that there is a bug with how iMovie treats the Legria HF20 content.
2) If interlaced content is correctly identified as interlaced by iMovie than it shouldn't show interlaced combining as iMovie is meant to automatically adjust for this when previewing video. I can verify this as I have viewed other interlaced content. Others have confirmed that this problem doesn't occur with 60i footage from the Vixia HF20.
3) The 50i content is showing combing artifacts because it is incorrectly being identified as progressive and it therefore not being adjusted by iMovie when being previewed. The same issue arises if the AIC file is viewed in Quicktime X (which is mean't to automatically adjust for interlacing with interlaced content).
4) Unfortunately there is no ability to do what you have suggested with iMovie.

As I noted in my previous post, the major risk is the that 25p content (which is being incorrectly identified as interlaced) will have the resolution reduced by iMovie if a special effect is applied that alters the frame size. I just wanted to warn people of this. Also, it is a pain that the exported 50i content from iMovie isn't flagged as interlaced, which means that interlaced combing is visible when viewed with media players such as Quicktime X.

I wasted lots of time on this issue late last year, and was never able to get a satisfactory resolution. For the record, I am pretty much a novice when it comes to video editing (which is why I use iMovie) but I have confidence that I am right on this issue as I have had this confirmed by some pretty knowledgeable people on the Apple Support Forum - including Steve Mullen (who has has actually written a book about iMovie and has developed special software to use with iMovie).

If anyone is interested I will provide links to the discussions on this on the Apple Support Forum.

I have a Canon HF200 and the camcorder is awesome. However, I bought a TRANSCEND 32GB SD SDHC Class 6 MEMORY CARD. I used the card to record a lecture only to find that the card stopped recording after about 10 minutes. When I got home I tried to record on the card again but it would not record past 15 minutes. So I reformatted the card and got the same results.

So I am thinking that the card is defective. Has anyone else had this type of an issue? If so, how did you resolve it?

I also have a Kingston 4 GB class 6 card that works just fine. I was able to record 1 hour and 30 minutes worth of video with it. Can someone please post what card/s you are using? Thanks.

I exsclusively use MicroCenter's own brand cards. I prefer the 16GB cards for now. That's with a HF100. They're usually priced between $28 and $30 a pop.

What class card do you use?

I'm pretty sure they're class 6.

I definitely can record at the highest resolution the HF100 suppoert 1920*1080*60i.

I've used Trancend 16G Mode 4 & 6 cards without an issue....
I've used them for up to 200 scenes, and a couple times from end to end recordings....
I've used Mode 6 cards more than Mode 4, and the reasoning behind this is the extra headroom Mode 6 would have on long recordings.... (higher designed speed == less chance of very warm card causing data errors...) I'm just erring on the side of caution...

I always shoot 1080i/29.97 @ 24Mb/sec rate.

Thanks this helps a lot. Another question I have is, what process do you go to export your recordings from the camcorder to your computer? Do you use the bundled software? Or do you know of a more efficient way of transferring files?

I just take the SD card out of my camcorder and put it into the SD slot of my PC. I then run the Pixela ImageMixer 3 software that came with the camcorder to import the files from the card.

i have an 8 and a 16 of the Kingston class 4 due to price, and have had great experience with them. other than a few times around 8-10 minutes, the VAST majority of my recording is done at 1-3 minute intervals so i might not have run across what the above person did with possible overheating...hadn't thought of that.

I also use pixela to bring the video OFF the camera, but not for much else. i just like the quickness and auto-dating, etc.

I do not transcode my AVCHD footage, I edit native AVCHD with PPRO CS5. On the desktop and laptop I have a raid (external on laptop). This guarantees enough throughput so there are no dropped frames during editing.

I have a procedure that has not failed me..... First, I label the memory cards with a number. Once I shoot a project, I take that memory card out of circulation until ~2 weeks after the BluRay or DVD is "accepted", and only then is the memory card re-initialized by the camera and placed back into rotation..

When I'm done shooting I copy the disk in total to the computer that will be editing the footage..... However, to keep things relatively organized, I first create a folder describing the useage of the footage...
For example, I'll create a folder: "Vacation Disk 1" . The card used was disk 1, so I have a reference to which card is which folder, then copy the memory card in total below that...

This way, I may have: "Vacation Disk 1" "Vacation Disk 2", "Racetrack Disk 1", "Racetrack Disk 2", etc. all on the same hard drive at once.. While I'm importing during editing, this gives you a heads up as to what is for which project.

Hope this makes sense... Does for me....

P.P.S. External Raid for laptop wasn't as expensive as it may sound....
3Gb ESata Express card off eBay $9
Bytecc 3Gb Sata/USBV2 Raid enclosure $40 (Use Sata interface for speed, USB interface convenient, but slow)
2 'on sale' 7200 rpm laptop 3Gb Sata drives $95
(Raptest says 105MB Read, 94MB Write using a Dell Inspiron 1720 & W7-64-- 4Gb Ram)

What do you mean by AVCHD footage? Is that the file format of the video once it is recorded onto the card? More importantly, is the file format compatible with Premiere Pro CS3? I think it would be great if I could simply take the card, put it into my card reader, and then drag and drop the files into a folder, and then drop the transferred files directly into Premiere Pro CS3. Is it possible to do so?

lenonhonorfilms. I understand your love of CS3.... I used it even after CS4 was out.... But if you have the motherboard for 64 bit OS, you want CS5....
CS3 won't deal with AVCHD properly unless you transcode.....
CS4 does do AVCHD, but isn't anywhere near as stable or good as CS5.

You'll find AVCHD is very processor and display card intensive.....

I'm even using CS5 on a Dell Insprion 1720 laptop.... (Hybrid drive, 4Gb Ram 64 bit OS...)
Granted, I'm downshifting to 1/4 resolution play mode in PPRO, but it does a great job of editing 24Mb/sec AVCHD and outputting to DVD. I have an external BluRay burner, but haven't tried it on the laptop, yet.... I've more resources on my Desktop editing system, so I've not tried any BluRay Projects on the Laptop.....

By the way.... I received a USB Fan (made for cooling a laptop) and with rubber feet on the Bytecc raid (Mentioned in an above post), I ran it for 9 hours with it not getting any warmer than the laptop driving it!!! I'm really impressed with that little raid!!

Yeah I guess I could upgrade to CS5. I am running a quad core 2.87 Ghz 4 GB on a Windows Vista 64 system.

Hi Joska,

I have recently been trialling the following:
- Sony Vegas Movie Studio HD Platinum
- Pinnacle Studio 14
- Cyberlink PowerDirector 8
- Premiere Elements 9

I liked the ease of use of Pinnacle Studio the most. However, when I exported to H.264 with MPEG -2TS, I had a play back issue. When I viewed the footage on my computer and dragged the slider bar forward or backwards to fast forward or rewind the footage would remain pixelated for about 10 seconds before it corrected itself. No other programs caused this.

So I would have to say my favorite is Cyberlink PowerDirector 8 - although I believe a new version will be released soon. Perhaps you could download the trial version.

My next favorite was Premiere Elements 9. However, I found the interface a bit slow and clunky.

Unfortunately, my computer had issues handling the demands of Sony Vegas because of the way it previews the video.

No question about it... Premiere Pro CS5.....
ce
If you have the computer for it... (64 bit only) and the resources in that computer, you can't go wrong!

Hey all, I just got the HF200, and was wondering if I had something set up wrong, but every video I shoot be it 30p or 60i, when I put into After Effects says the frame rate is 29.97... I don't know if I'm missing something, or if that's right somehow.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post19378964 and further.

Hi,

I could really do with somebody doing me a massive favour.

Until now I've always copied the files from my HF200 by just copying the .mts files off the SD card but now I've noticed that the files all have a "created on" date of 31/12/1979. I always normally delete the rest of the files in the AVCHD folder but I'm guessing that's where any metadata is kept.

I thought I'll give ImageMixer transfer utility a go to see if that merges the metadata into the .mts files but then I realised I've lost that CD. I've got the Disc 2 with the video tools apps but this won't install until the first disc is installed.

Would somebody possibly be able to send me an iso or a zip of the first disc of Pixela Application Disc Ver 2? I'm not asking anyone to help me obtain software illegally. I have the right to use this software but Canon can't provide me with a replacement. All the downloads on their website are just updaters.

I know this is a big ask but I would really appreciate it. I'd offer to pay for it but that opens up all kinds of issues.

Thanks,

Phil

PS: If anyone has any recommendations for an alternative program to pull files of the SD then that would be great.

Herman, if the camcorder's clock was set to 1979, then metadata will not help you.

Hi,

thanks for the reply.

The clock is set correctly, the date always appears in Windows 7 as 31/12/1979 even when videos have been taken weeks apart. It's possible that Windows has that as a default for all files without the "created on" date attribute.

Cheers,

Phil

I'm just not happy with the sensor on the HF200. I've had it for 1.5 years, and in low light it's just awful. Will the HF S200 fair better? 8MP as opposed to 3MP, I think. But it's hard finding a review that says how it compares.

in windows 7 (maybe vista... i went from XP to 7 so not sure) using their updated transfer "wizard" you can get similar results as pixela. i liked pixela because it would put them in date folders, rename the files, and there was an easy way to transfer them back to cards in formats that the camera could still use them (to use your camera to show the video for example). with the exception of that part (i now have little reason to use the camcorder to show video) I find the included windows tranfer as good or better as you can use various options to auto-name the videos based on date, tags, combination, etc.

i'm an owner! Got my HFS200 yesterday and put my HF200 up on ebay.

I'm looking to get a new HD camcorder, and while it might not be a S20 or HF200, I'm most interested in the Canon Vixia series.

Here's my questions--what do you all prefer, a camcorder that has internal flash memory and one SD card slot, or one with no internal memory but two SD card slots?

I'm sure it's a personal preference more than anything, but I'm wondering if there are any known advantages outside of a few obvious ones, or if people have run into trouble using one method more than the other?

Thanks.

Non-removable memory is idiocy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD#Media