Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 347

Oh, that really was a scandal. Actually, I've been buying from Blue Jeans ever since (and I will continue to do so with special enthusiasm). But this one is putatively a letter sent to a mere customer, not to a company at all. If Panasonic really did this, it is among the worst PR moves I have ever seen.

Let's wait and see what further information oxygenmask can give when he next logs in.

-Noob

Did you get a full refund, and did you have the standard warranty or an EW from someone?

From what I see, he joined in Jan 28 2010, when he also made his very first post, and with it now being the first day of Jan 2011. (BTW, Happy New Year everyone!) That would mean he has been around for 11 months, approx a month shy of 1 full year now. Granted he has only made a total of 3 posts in that amount of time, but with his being a forum member now for approx 1 year, he also did not just join up either. Not to mention, he could have also been a lurker for even longer than that before joining to make his first post.

Yepp, my mistake. BUT, I still think it's BS...

Plenty of industry plants on this site. I'm still amused people bit on the hook with no bait.

I can't say one way or the other if it's actually BS or not. But it certainly is a bit suspicious, that if they did indeed contact him like that, that he may not be saying exactly everything that he may have done to generate such a response like that from Panasonic's lawyers. I'm pretty sure just normal complaining and griping about the TV would not get a response from Panasonic like that, and that instead it would have taken some kind a threatening action on his part first for them to do something like that.

Full refund from Panasonic directly.

this was before they made the announcement that it was normal, the field tech authorized it himself. (I'll repeat this every post about this just so somebody doesn't read just that post and get the wrong idea about my refund)

It's hard to say whether or not its BS and I for one tend to have a knee jerk reaction that posts like that are BS. People post a lot of stuff on here while bending the truth a bit. I'd like to give the poster the benefit of the doubt, but what everyone (including the poster) has to understand than when you post that a lawyer for Panasonic has contacted YOU as being a problem, for the matter of your set that has not lived up to expectations, that this is a pretty big deal and open to scrutiny.

Last year in Jan they posted that they had just got done running break in slides on a G15 for 100 hours. At that time they were concerned there was a fair amount of IR on the set and that the black levels were lighter than what they thought they should be. The next month (Feb) they said that after owning the set for 3 months that the black levels had risen to unacceptable levels and the were in contact with Panasonic on this matter. This means that they were in contact with Pansasonic for nearly a year (as they posted) to try and get the set replaced. A lot can be said an done in a year.

I apologize to the Poster if everything they said is factual, please understand that this was an eyebrow raising post open to suspicion and if a lawyer for Panasonic is contacting them in the context that they posted then it is completely unacceptable on Pansonics part .

So, do you think the lawyers got him

Professional Panasonic Plasmas used a 12 bit video scaler on last years model this year they are using a 32 bit video scaler.

These new plasmas will be something else

Yeppers I noticed it when I first started here... seems like backstabing each other to make a buck for x-mas.

It is obvious when someone will be so negative about things and not being informative or a bit helpful.

I will say what little I know to to give information, well at least bring up ideas for people with even more knowledge.

In reality 12 bit scaler is better than what most Bluray players have.

Now if they use advanced processing to clean MPEG artifacts and enhance SD it would be something.

We have come to an age where our technology surpasses our archived video and film formats... Lets get a move on to 60fps video standards for live broadcast, and film (Note: Film is just a term now that digial is in the theater).

Sorry! I'm looking at getting a Panasonic G20.

Should I be concerned because of this thread?

Has anyone else, besides CNET, posted MLLs for the VT25 or G20 after the rise?

I thought that black levels approaching 0.010 ftL would be high enough to be measured with consumer meters like the Eye-One Display LT. But searching this thread I couldn't find any user reports of black levels for these models.

I have a 2009 S1. Is there any reason to hope that some day, the panel age will finally match the MLL adjustment and the black levels might get restored?

Can someone summarize if the problem has been seen in the 2010 models? I saw some references to floating blacks but I'm not sure if I've seen any complaints of black levels doubling on the 2010's.

In the very first post of this thread Orta added a link to my measurements of my G25 a couple of months ago.

Starting MLL 0.008ftl - First rise 0.012ftl (Measurement by poster Smoof15)

Second rise 0.016ftl (I believe)
Third rise 0.020ftl (I believe)

Who says that it won't rise anymore?


Have you measured it, lately?

No, I haven't measured it since then. Maybe this weekend I'll take another look at it.

Are there any folks out there who have either legal experience, or have attempted to take Panasonic to small claims court to get a refund?

I live in California if that makes any difference. The model I purchased was p50s1.

1) Who exactly do you sue? How do I identify the right department at Panasonic/right representative to send the summons to?

2) What kind of documentation should I bring
a) Cnet article describing the issue.
b) Any official response from panasonic
c) Panasonic advertising "# Contrast Ratio: 40,000:1 Native; Infinite Black Panel " Heavy emphasis on "Infinite Black" which is no where near. "VIERA HDTVs offer incredible black reproduction, with a rated dynamic contrast ratio of up to 2,000,000:1, so you'll get warm, accurate skin tones, gorgeous greens, breathtaking blues and vivid reds". Was I imagining when I read that? "incredible black reproduction".
d) Photos of the tv with a black card next to it in the dark

3) Should I send a document explaining my request for a refund, certified, return receipt first? If so, to whom?

4) Is my local smalls claim court the right place to file the suit or will it be dismissed because it's not the right venue

5) Would I have to bring my tv to court ?

I'm willing to be the guy that tests this out. I'm just tired of waiting to hear what happens in the class action lawsuit and I'm also not content to get some token concession. And I have never regretting anything more than purchasing this tv and what's happened. I don't have a light meter but I have such an extreme case it's just unwatchable in the dark.

I either want this fixed or want a refund. And even if I don't win, I'll be happy to waste their day.

Any comments or advice welcome.

Really? So they still triple just like last year? I thought Panasonic said they wouldn't increase as much this year.

I'm quite surprised that there's not more data available at this time of year. Last year, we had all kinds of data at this time. How about the VT25, did anyone measure anything above CNET's 0.007 first rise?

I have had the Pany g20 50 inch for about three weeks and ALLREADY I have noticed the loss of black levels. What once was only a very slight glow when displaying a blank dark screen (in a dark room) has become more like the bright glow a Sony EX500 55 gives off. I used to own the Sony. Man what a dissapointment. Someone tell me theres a hacked firmware out there that could fix this BS.

It should not happen anywhere near this soon. Something ain't right . . . .


When you say "displaying a blank dark screen" do you mean you're looking at a blank screen with no video input of any type being displayed? If so, then this is not representative of the rising black levels issue - you need to be displaying a source on the screen - like a dark scene in a movie. A good signal to display would be a Zero-IRE black jpeg image via the SD card slot. This will show the black performance of the panel. Looking at a blank-input screen will look gray by comparison and is the wrong way to judge the black levels.

The top picture is how a blank-input screen looks, and the bottom picture is how the actual black level looks....

Hi, new to the forums. I got this TV a little over a year ago, and it seems like lately it is impossible to see scenes with low-light. I just played Dead Space 2, and at the beginning when it says to adjust your brightness so you can see the symbol, I could barely see the symbol. Now, I'm playing the Killzone 3 demo, and I can't see the symbol at all! I have the brightness and contrast set to 100 (max), all the lights off in the room, and I've tried fiddling around with the other settings, but nothing makes it bright enough to see the symbol.

I just can't believe a TV that I bought a year ago is already becoming borderline-unwatchable... especially since one of the reasons I bought this model was for great black levels. Any solution at all to this problem?

The issue that you are describing does not sound like the rise in mll that affects these panels. Make sure that you have the black level setting in the picture menu set to light and not dark.

This was it! I had it set to full. Thanks a lot! Now it shows up even with the in-game brightness set to minimum.

I really wish I didn't play through Dead Space 2 with the setting on Full... made it impossible to see, haha.

Dear Sir or Madam,

I am an owner of a Panasonic TC-P42G15, one of a number of Panasonic PDPs affected by a peculiar black level problem. After several hundred hours of panel usage the black level is three times as bright, cutting the contrast ratio in half. Panasonic has revealed that their 2009 plasmas are programmed to make scheduled adjustments to "an internal driving voltage" in order to compensate for gradual changes to "various elements and material characteristics". Panasonic claims this is necessary to maintain "optimal picture performance" over the life of the panel. All I know is that my plasma's picture now lacks the excellent black level and contrast it had when it was new.

I call this a peculiar problem because it seems to be exclusive to Panasonic PDPs. According to expert calibrators on avsforum.com this behavior is not seen in competitors' PDPs, indicating an outdated or improper approach to phosphor driving on their part. There is much controversy over this matter. But it clear at least that Panasonic made a mistake with their 2009 plasmas, since the black level adjustments in the 2010+ models occur at longer intervals. Nevertheless, they will not admit the 2009 plasma are problematic, nor address the issue with a firmware update.

In any case, I wanted to make your company aware how this experience has soured my opinion of "THX Certification". I had expected a stamp of approval from your company to imply a certain amount of oversight on your part---the kind of oversight which would prevent such mistakes from occurring. In the future I am unlikely to consider "THX Certification" an asset to any product.

Sincerely,

Ploppity Drown

No one cares, that's the problem and the reason to not purchase a Panasonic, I am sorry for the thousands of people who were screwed by Panasonic.

+1.

I feel worse for the two other people I recommended Panasonic 50" and 42" plasmas to, than I do for myself. I will never recommend Panasonic again to anyone.