Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 355

NO, that would not work: the adjustment is for a particular circuit only

Others (including myself) have attempted to adjust certain adjustment pots on certain boards on certain generations... With some limited success... But ultimately deemed it as not worth the limited mll decrease with potential pixel misfiring, ect. These panels were designed to work they way they work, lowing the voltage can and certainly might cause reliability problems. Unfortunately.

Oh well, it was worth a shot. Guitar players (including, most famously, Eddie Van Halen) have used Variacs for years on tube amplifiers with great results, so I was hoping there might be a glimmer of hope there. Guess I'll just need to stick with the bias lighting!

hello,

i don't have enough time to read the hole thread, i plan to buy an cheap 50PZ80. but of course i have doubts about the rising black level.

is black level potentiometer mode possible with the PZ80 ?

anyone has experience with this ?

regards

don't have time to repeat the whole thread, but if the price is right, does it really matter?

Seriously though, as stated even just a few posts back, no solution proposed to date, ultimately, has been believed to be "worth the risk/effort" in the long run. If you're getting such a great deal on a good screen, does it even matter? Have a dim lamp on in the room and your eyes probably won't even notice any "risen blacks." Works for us, and countless others.

If you absolutely must have the absolute blackest blacks for the life of the product, then you wouldn't be looking to save a few bucks. You'd probably be looking at a Kuro or the like.

cheers,
..dane

agreed. just a little bias lighting goes a long way. I for one never watch movies in complete dark.(kills me eyes)

There is a possibility after a few years as the panel ages it may start to darken to some degree, as measured. Some previous poster noted this in this thread I believe. Soooo maybe something to it I don't know.

These panels reach their half-life at approx. 100,000 hours of use. I'm sure by then the tv would have tanked on some other issue. Clock rewinding and fast forwarding has also already been done by others (again, including myself) on certain generations without success.

My V10 has 877 hrs on it, I can't say I have noticed the rise, but I will compare this to a VT30 I'm calibrating now and take some measurements.

Damn man. How do you only have 877 hours after all this time? lol. My v10 probably has a lot more than that. I haven't checked in a while

What sizes are you talking about here? The 58/65's have darker panels, I doubt my 54g10's .030 something mll can be achieved by anything new

Thanks, curious of your results.

On CNET they have an article where a panasonic rep said the black levels would no longer rise. Just throwing that out there. Sounds good to me.

Yes, there is a thread devoted to the topic. The underlying question surrounds the reps "vague" language .....

Panasonic: Plasma black levels no longer worsen

After reading the recent CNET review of the VT30 series where they noted a difference in black levels between 96Hz and 60Hz modes, I tried this out on my 50" G10. I've always watched in 60Hz because the flicker in white and near-white areas on 48Hz mode was annoying. Last night I put up a black screen from my blu-ray player set on 1080/24p and toggled the G10 between 60Hz and 48Hz and sure enough the black level in 48Hz was noticeably lower. Not a HUGE difference, but certainly noticeable; looks to my eye like it goes back to where it was after the second rise but before the third, which was a level I could live with.

Has anyone else tried this? More to the point, are there any tips for alleviating the 48Hz flicker in bright areas? Frankly, I do prefer the more natural motion of 24p movies in this mode, but bright scenes can become nearly unwatchable. I may try watching this way for a couple of weeks to see if the eyes/brain can adapt to it the way they did with the rainbow-effect on my first DLP - I really noticed those at first but eventually got so used to it that after a while I couldn't even make myself see them on purpose. However, if there's no adapting to it and the choice comes down to better blacks with flicker or worse blacks without flicker, I'll have to go with the second option, except for generally dark movies like the last couple of Harry Potters.

I remember reading a long time ago about this fact. I always use 48 HZ on blu rays, as well as shows on my mac mini. I also have a bias light behind the Tv which complements the effect.

I've got 4873 hours on my 58V10 and measured as low as 0.010 MLL tonight (several times). I usually measure around 0.013. Except for actual measurements, I've not noticed a rise in the black level with my eyes. Then again, the set has never measured lower than a 0.008 to my knowledge.

Everything else with the set is perfect

Thanks great! Have you had to recalibrate since you last posted in the V10 picture setting thread? I am still using your offsets and my V10 still looks great!

Glad your set still looks great. Mine looks excellent, too.

I've tweaked a few times because (apparently) I have OCD and my quest for the perfect calibration (which is impossible) never ends, but I leave it alone for the most part. Plus I'm not sure if it's the set or my sensor that is drifting, but either way it is so minor that it's not actually visible. This is a link to my settings from a year ago with my current settings below (so you can calculate the offset if you need to):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post18769369

RCut: 77
GCut: 75
BCut: 7A
RDrv: F1
GDrv: C9
BDrv: A8


For custom, the link to my settings from a year ago is here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post18033734) while my current settings are below:

W/B high R +4
W/B high B +1
W/B low R +4
W/B low B +1

^^^thanks!

No problem.

I got the panel of my Panasonic G20 (european model) replaced for a burned in logo. Does this mean my black levels are the same as when I bought the set?
I am wondering cos the technician didnt change anything in the service menu or board after the change, so its basically got the same hours on the clock as before. If the voltage increase happens according to certain times of use, doesnt that mean the panel is being controlled by the same voltage as before and I wont see any improvements in black levels compared to my burned in panel which had over 3k hours on the clock?

really?
A reset is possible?
:lurk:

Yes. Absolutely.

Is it the A board reset/?
Does it last?
Factory reset?
I am reading the 11' ST30 thread looking for the info.

Interesting so far.

Yes it's the a-board reset. No, it doesn't last. any authorized panny tech should know how to do it. It was done to my v10 way back. It would still be worth knowing how to do, hands down.

Hey guys,

Do any of you guys know of a repair shop that can give me a repair invoice which states that the black level problem on TC-P54V10 can not be fixed?

Thanks

Ain't gonna happen. It is not a defect, it's a design flaw. The TV is working as designed - the black level rise is programmed into the TV to compensate for phosphor decay over the years so there is nothing for a repair shop to "fix".

Thanks for the reply.

Ok, I agree that it's a design flaw which severely affects the quality of the picture, the "quality" upon which most of the people had made the buying decision in the first place.

In that regard, I agree completely.

I disagree totally, you guys are confusing the QUALITY with PERFORMANCE.

IN general QUALITY discribes the level of components and the level of engineering and the level of manufactureing implemented.
PERFORMANCE discribes the END result (what the picture LOOKS LIKE) the picture PERFORMANCE. So Ideally you should complain about the END result not being what after xxx amount of hours, you could normally expect the picture performance to be, due to Black levels rising/ fluctuating.