or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Plasma Flat Panel Displays › Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 365

post #10921 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiodane View Post

In Hex, 4844 is not 12DA but rather 12EC.

The power cycle count however is also off by 18 cycles, which is interesting.

Did I read somewhere that the hours and power cycle counts reported in the service menu are not from the panel eeprom but rather somewhere else (peaks, perhaps)?  Maybe that accounts for the difference.

Maybe the US sets have different logic for the count, but on my european model the power on/off cycles count was spot on with the values stored in panel EEPROM. Or might be possible, that your TV got A-board replaced after 18 hours of use wink.gif
post #10922 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov View Post


Looking forward to more of your findings! When you get it right and begin to build them for sale, put me down for the first one!!! biggrin.gif

 

Thanks Gov.. :)  Appreciate your support.  Will keep everyone informed.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mironto View Post


Maybe the US sets have different logic for the count, but on my european model the power on/off cycles count was spot on with the values stored in panel EEPROM. Or might be possible, that your TV got A-board replaced after 18 hours of use wink.gif

 

It's interesting to me that such seemingly minor changes would be made between markets.  But I guess stranger things have happened.  I never had an a-board replaced, and at least to my knowledge, it was a brand new unit (Best Buy).  Certainly didn't look open box or refurb'd either.  Who knows.

 

WHat I'm wondering now is if the middle two bytes really need to be cleared, or if we just clear bytes 1, 2, 5, and 6?

 

For now I'm going with the proven plan of clearing all six bytes.  However, I plan to leave my unit connected with a USB logger long-term to log values at each power-on and maybe even power-off (if I can figure an efficient way to measure "time on" myself without running out of code space on this teeny micro). I may make up a few more such loggers and offer an incentive to those willing to log data over time and periodically send it to me.  I would like to understand more about the calculation mechanisms.. But, for now, clearing and "undo"ing is sufficient.

 

..dane

post #10923 of 11163

Hi!

 

I can confirm, that in my P46VT20 there are two connectors, located behind plastic cover, near the ethernet port.

First connector - CN0101 - has 20 pins

Second connector - CN0102 - has 11 pins

 

 

post #10924 of 11163
Maybe the numbers represent the "service time" that MLL was last adjusted?
post #10925 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by keramt View Post
 

Hi!

 

I can confirm, that in my P46VT20 there are two connectors, located behind plastic cover, near the ethernet port.

First connector - CN0101 - has 20 pins

Second connector - CN0102 - has 11 pins

 

Thanks keramt!  Those pictures are FAR better than the one I can get with my TV mounted on the wall.  Thanks so much!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbgoodbuddy View Post

Maybe the numbers represent the "service time" that MLL was last adjusted?

 

My TV has had no service adjustment, technical support, or anything else.  It did download a VieraCast update, and maybe the THX update?  I can't remember, it may have already had that.  But either way, nobody has adjusted any settings to my knowledge..  So I have no idea.  I'm not particularly bothered by it though, and with my logger setup now, once I clear my settings, I'll be gathering much more detailed information every time the TV turns on and off, so i should be able to deduce more soon.

 

Gov, I posted an extra lengthy update today..  enjoy.  :)

 

Also, everybody have a drink on us tonight -- it's my wife's and my 13th wedding anniversary today! (how I ever tricked her in to saying yes to such a lowlife, I'll never know ..)

 

cheers,

..dane

post #10926 of 11163
Congrats on your wedding anniversary!
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiodane View Post

My TV has had no service adjustment, technical support, or anything else.  It did download a VieraCast update, and maybe the THX update?  I can't remember, it may have already had that.  But either way, nobody has adjusted any settings to my knowledge..  So I have no idea.  I'm not particularly bothered by it though, and with my logger setup now, once I clear my settings, I'll be gathering much more detailed information every time the TV turns on and off, so i should be able to deduce more soon.

What I meant was, the last time the MLL level was automatically adjusted by the firmware. I.e. "I last adjusted MLL level 72 hours ago."
post #10927 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbgoodbuddy View Post

What I meant was, the last time the MLL level was automatically adjusted by the firmware. I.e. "I last adjusted MLL level 72 hours ago."
If that would be the case, then the bits would stay either 0 or copy the hours bits after MLL reset. Instead, they change to some different values.

I did a third reset on my TV. According to peaks EEPROM I had 5550:15h on my set, meaning from the second reset at 5346:00h I clocked 204:15h. Panel EEPROM reading showed 00 bf 02 b2 00 e8. From the data gathered also from other users resetting their TV I am pretty sure that first two bytes represent hours and the second two bytes somehow add to those hours to make the final number.
post #10928 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by mironto View Post


If that would be the case, then the bits would stay either 0 or copy the hours bits after MLL reset. Instead, they change to some different values.

I did a third reset on my TV. According to peaks EEPROM I had 5550:15h on my set, meaning from the second reset at 5346:00h I clocked 204:15h. Panel EEPROM reading showed 00 bf 02 b2 00 e8. From the data gathered also from other users resetting their TV I am pretty sure that first two bytes represent hours and the second two bytes somehow add to those hours to make the final number.

 

I agree this makes the most sense.  However we don't quite understand it yet.  The module I am working on at home currently logs the eeprom value every time the tv is turned on as well as how many minutes the TV was used.  I hope to be able to gather data over several weeks of normal tv viewing to try and determine a pattern from which we could develop an equation.  for now, clearing the bytes is the accepted solution.  that may be refined in the future, but we need more data first.

 

..dane


Edited by audiodane - 10/8/13 at 2:07pm
post #10929 of 11163
this looked so easy and I was so excited. but I can't make the Arduino software work at all.

When I open the twi.c file to make those changes to the resister pull ups it refuses to verify it and gives a lot of errors frown.gif
post #10930 of 11163
i open arduino ide

go to sketch

select add file

open twi.c

make the changes

verify <---- this is where all the errors are
post #10931 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsoccer33 View Post

this looked so easy and I was so excited. but I can't make the Arduino software work at all.

When I open the twi.c file to make those changes to the resister pull ups it refuses to verify it and gives a lot of errors frown.gif

You are not supposed to compile/verify the twi.c file in Arduino IDE. You need to edit the twi.c file in any text editor (e.g. notepad), save it and only then launch Arduino IDE. That twi.c file is like settings file for Arduino IDE. When it starts, it reads the parameters from the file and knows it has to compile the sketch files eeprom_read.ino and eeprom_write.ino with disabled pull-ups option for Arduino board. I'll update the guide so it's clearer to understand what needs to be done.
post #10932 of 11163
ohh wonderful!

I thought since it said it needed to be compiled and uploaded to the unit that it was to be open in the software.

I tried making my own wires/connectors but wasn't able to get a reading from my tv. I assume when it starts spitting out hex data that I will see it in the Arduino software at the bottom?

my girlfriends dad is a circuit board guru. hes helped me with similar projects in the past so I think I will raid his supply cupboard.

this is so great though. the time you took to put that guide together is very appreciated.
post #10933 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsoccer33 View Post

I tried making my own wires/connectors but wasn't able to get a reading from my tv. I assume when it starts spitting out hex data that I will see it in the Arduino software at the bottom?
After you compile and upload the code to the Arduino board and connect it to the TV, you have to open Serial Monitor (Tools->Serial Monitor CTRL+SHIFT+M or that magnifying glass icon on the right) where you will see the HEX values read from EEPROM.
post #10934 of 11163
Oh wow I think my connections might have been good enough this morning to work. I powered the TV on and only got the black screen. I thought I wasn't getting a reading because my connections were bad, but I was looking in the wrong place.

This is my first time with Arduino and I don't know anything about programming (though I am familiar with wiring, soldering, and simple circuits). There are a few other parts of the guide and of Ardruino basics I'm a little bit unclear of.
Quote:
Now you can power up the TV – first with the power switch and then the remote control.

I pressed the power button on the front on my tv and I got the red LED light and a blank screen - just like the guide said. Do I need to press the POWER button on my tv remote as well?
Quote:
Once you’ve written those values down, you can power off the TV.

Perhaps I wasn't properly connected to the tv, because I was unable to power it off by pressing the power button or using the tv remote. I had to unplug it. Should pressing the power switch on the front of the set be enough to power it down?
Quote:
It’s time to reset the panel operation hours to zero. Load the sketch eeprom_write.ino into IDE and upload it to the Arduino board and open Serial Monitor. It will first send commands onto the I2C bus to write zeros to bytes 2-7 (the addressing starts at 0 so in the code itself you are addressing bytes 1-6) and then it will read the first seven bytes in a loop.

1) So after I've logged my hours from the READ section, I power the tv off.
2) I open the WRITE sketch in Arduino and upload it. (Do I need to do anything to get the READ sketch off/deleted from the Arduino board?)
3) After uploading it I will still see the values I already recorded.
Quote:
After you power up the TV and the bytes are still showing the values obtained during last reading, the writing was most probably already carried out by the Arduino board before the TV was powered on. To reinitialize the program to relaunch the write part, you need to press the reset button on the board.

Once you press the reset button, the EEPROM bytes 2-7 will get zeroed and you should get a confirmation by reading the first 7 values, where bytes 2-7 (again, 1-6 by addressing from 0) should all be 0×00.

Since I still see the values I previous recorded during the READ phase, I now press the reset button on the Arduino board. Now I will see new zero readings.
Quote:
However, once the board is programmed, if powered from either the USB port (e.g. USB charger) or power adapter socket (which can take input in 6-20V range), it can function as a standalone device that can be hooked to the TV and do the A-board reset.

This confuses me a bit. Is the READ phase actually needed? If someone skipped it and just tried to WRITE the zero values, would it work? I don't plan to touch anything on the Arduino after I'm done. When I want to fix this again in a few months, do I just need to connect it, press the power button on my tv, and then press the reset button on the Arduino?

I'm sorry to ask so many questions because you've already spent so much time writing the guide. I'm just a bit inexperience doing this sort of work.
post #10935 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsoccer33 View Post

I pressed the power button on the front on my tv and I got the red LED light and a blank screen - just like the guide said. Do I need to press the POWER button on my tv remote as well?
What model do you have? On US sets the LED will stay red, on european the LED is red when TV is off (but connected to power) and will turn green (as when you power up the TV) but the panel will remain off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsoccer33 View Post

Perhaps I wasn't properly connected to the tv, because I was unable to power it off by pressing the power button or using the tv remote. I had to unplug it. Should pressing the power switch on the front of the set be enough to power it down?
You should be able to power it down either with remote or power switch. Again, not sure what TV you have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsoccer33 View Post

2) I open the WRITE sketch in Arduino and upload it. (Do I need to do anything to get the READ sketch off/deleted from the Arduino board?)
No, the code in Arduino gets replaced. It can hold only one code at a time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsoccer33 View Post

This confuses me a bit. Is the READ phase actually needed? If someone skipped it and just tried to WRITE the zero values, would it work? I don't plan to touch anything on the Arduino after I'm done. When I want to fix this again in a few months, do I just need to connect it, press the power button on my tv, and then press the reset button on the Arduino?
READ phase is not needed, it's there just to make sure you can make proper connection to the TV and are reading the right addresses before trying to write anything to EEPROM. Of course you can skip that part, now. Next time, when you perform reset, turn on Arduino first (so that the write part gets executed even before the TV is on/EEPROM can be accessed) and since after the write part there is read in loop, once you power on the TV, you can first read the old values. You can write them down if you wish and press the reset button on Arduino so the values get erased.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsoccer33 View Post

I'm sorry to ask so many questions because you've already spent so much time writing the guide. I'm just a bit inexperience doing this sort of work.
No problem, I've had far more questions during my first reset smile.gif Your questions help me make the guide even better by clearing up some parts I wrote after I've been through all of that that seem logical to me but might be cofusing for a person who is trying to reset MLL for the first time.
Edited by mironto - 10/11/13 at 7:39am
post #10936 of 11163

Could someone tell me what kind of plug I should use to connect to my CN0101 or CN0102 connectors?

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1167339/panasonic-11g-12g-13g-black-levels-have-seemingly-doubled-overnight/10920#post_23809980

Im looking for a week, and can not find it :(

post #10937 of 11163
thank you so much mironto. you guys are geniuses

also, I have a US model TC-P50S1 from 2009. It has the 11 pin inline connector
Edited by pittsoccer33 - 10/11/13 at 8:32am
post #10938 of 11163
Originally Posted by keramt View Post
 

Could someone tell me what kind of plug I should use to connect to my CN0101 or CN0102 connectors?

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1167339/panasonic-11g-12g-13g-black-levels-have-seemingly-doubled-overnight/10920#post_23809980

Im looking for a week, and can not find it :(

 

Thread search tools are your friend..

 

 

They are JST connectors.  Yours seem to be a little different, and I'm not sure why.  I thought they were all the same until you pointed out otherwise.  Have a browse through JST and see what you can find.  JST has plenty of good datasheets with diagrams and pictures.

 

With that said, on my G10, at least, the following connectors are mounted on the TV A-Board:

 

A17 (20pin) = BM20B-SHLDS-G-TFT

A18 (11pin) = B11B-PH-SM4-TB

 

the wire harness mates that you need to connect would then be:

 

A17 (20pin)

  • connector housing SHLDP-20V-S(B) for non-locking (good for easily removable DIY)
  • connector housing SHLDP-20V-S-1(B) for locking (better for my PMCv1)
  • contacts SSHL-003GA1-P0.2

 

A18 (11pin)

  • connector housing PHR-11
  • contacts SPH-00xT-P0.5y, where (x = "2" or "4") and (y = "S" or "L")

 

For a DIY approach, you can use pliers to carefully crimp on the pins to stripped wires and insert them into the connector housing.  For a larger scale production, however, quality control is difficult and you need a crimp tool that typically costs USD$800-$2000.  (Ouch!)  Miro was able to find an eBay source (I think he has a link on his DIY page (link in mine and his sig lines)) for the 11pin connector and crimp pins.

 

I have attached the JST datasheets fo the SHLD and ePH connector families.  Enjoy..

 

cheers,

..dane

 

 

ePH.pdf 166k .pdf file

eSHLD.pdf 150k .pdf file  


Edited by audiodane - 10/23/13 at 7:49am
post #10939 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiodane View Post

They are JST connectors.  Yours seem to be a little different, and I'm not sure why.  I thought they were all the same until you pointed out otherwise.  Have a browse through JST and see what you can find.  JST has plenty of good datasheets with diagrams and pictures.
Probably because he has European VT20 and Panasonic changed the service connector in 2010 for some reason? Would somebody with US GT20/VT20 confirm, if he has the same connectors on his set or the 11-pin is the same JST PH as on 2009 models?
post #10940 of 11163

Hmm..  Now I'm going to have to go through more service manuals to see if the part numbers are changing.  I decided on A17/20pin for convenience of 3.3V, but if different models have different connectors, that's not a good thing for a "unified solution".  I'll have to check each one and develop a spreadsheet on which models list which part numbers..  <sigh..>

 

..dane

post #10941 of 11163
Its too bright in the room to definitively say it worked for me, and I might have some placebo effect going, but I really think I nailed it.

My current reading is as followings after writing new values:

0x01 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF

On the Panasonic TC-P50S1 there were a few minor things I noticed that deviated slightly from Mironto's guide:
-When you first power up the tv using the front button/switch with the Arduino attached it powers as normal, but to a blank screen as noted.
-Pressing the power switch again will not do anything. You must hold it in, but the tv won't power right off. It reboots and comes right back on (to a blank screen.
-It seemed to be safe to remove the Arduino with the power on. You still need to hold the power button in to reboot it, but it will come back as normal. But with better blacks smile.gif

I found a set of male/female jumper wires at Radio Shack that worked great in place of a dedicated connector

Here are the catalog numbers to order online or look for in store

Arduino Uno REV 3 | Catalog #: 276-128



Schmartboard 5" Male/Female Jumpers | Catalog #: 276-156



And my connection for reference:

post #10942 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsoccer33 View Post

I found a set of male/female jumper wires at Radio Shack that worked great in place of a dedicated connector

 

I like the jumper idea, very nicely done.  Takes the soldering problem out of the equation for those who wish to DIY their own sets.  Also solves the problems of getting some hard-to-find JST connectors with cable pigtails or trying to crimp your own pins.  Again-- very nicely done.  Thanks for sharing.

 

I hope to have another update by the weekend.  It's been really busy though..  seems things always get busier in the fall..

 

..dane

post #10943 of 11163
Does the fix work on the PZ800U as well? Has anyone tried it on the PZ800U?
post #10944 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiodane View Post

Also solves the problems of getting some hard-to-find JST connectors with cable pigtails or trying to crimp your own pins.
I've still got some 40 connectors left. biggrin.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by daMaster View Post

Does the fix work on the PZ800U as well? Has anyone tried it on the PZ800U?
As far as I know, no. You have a chance to be the first pioneer wink.gif
post #10945 of 11163
Mironto, I think something you should consider hosting on your page is a copy of the TWI.C file that has already been altered to disable to the internal pullups.

Somebody could just download it and overwrite the existing file that was created when they installed the Arduino software. I know for me personally this was the most intimidating part of the process because it seemed like the only place to cause permanent damage if I didn't insert the // properly.

When I looked at the connector on the back of my tv the first thing I thought of was that it looked like headers on a PC motherboard. I actually went digging through my computer parts bin trying to find any wires that already had the female ends to slide over the TV's pins. I tried a somewhat crude solution with solder and electrical tape but couldn't determine if I had good connections or not, so being impatient and not wanting to wait for an internet order I searched the Radio Shacks in town looking for the type of male to female wires I bought.

I think using the jumper wires the way I did was extremely easy. You know 100% that your connections are solid - no potential bad crimps or missed contacts. The male end stayed firmly in the Arduino and the female ends were snug on the TV service pins.

Anyone who can wire a 5.1 speaker system and run an auto speaker calibration can do this reset the way I did.
post #10946 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by daMaster View Post

Does the fix work on the PZ800U as well? Has anyone tried it on the PZ800U?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mironto View Post

As far as I know, no. You have a chance to be the first pioneer wink.gif

I've actually got 2 Panasonic plasmas to experiment with: 42PZ77U and 58PZ800U.

The 58PZ800U has certainly experienced 1 or 2 rises already. When I first got the set I measured it down at 0.008 ftL (0.03 cd/m^2) and then at around 1565 hours it measured double that at 0.015 ftL (0.05 cd/m^2). I haven't used the 58PZ800U TV for almost 2 years now due to moving and renovations so have not had a chance to measure it yet, but IIRC it appeared as though it had experienced it's second rise in black level just based on my observations by eye.

The 42PZ77U always seems to have measured 0.042 ftL (0.14 cd/m^2) since day 0. I'm going to try to re-measure it again soon to see if it has experienced a rise in black level, but I don't think it has at all. It was probably manufactured before Panasonic introduced this "bug".
post #10947 of 11163
A couple of questions about the hardware needed:
  1. Can I use a Funduino Uno R3 instead of the Arduino model which is more than twice the price?
  2. Are the JST PH crimps easy to crimp with a standard crimping tool or does it require a special JST crimper? If I can't crimp them with my existing tools then I will look for the jumper wires from Radio Shack posted earlier in this thread.
post #10948 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by daMaster View Post

A couple of questions about the hardware needed:
  1. Can I use a Funduino Uno R3 instead of the Arduino model which is more than twice the price?
  2. Are the JST PH crimps easy to crimp with a standard crimping tool or does it require a special JST crimper? If I can't crimp them with my existing tools then I will look for the jumper wires from Radio Shack posted earlier in this thread.

Nvm the first question: looks like the Funduino should work fine. Ordered one and should have it in a couple of weeks.

Still wondering about how to crimp the JSP PH crimps...
post #10949 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by daMaster View Post


I've actually got 2 Panasonic plasmas to experiment with: 42PZ77U and 58PZ800U.

The 58PZ800U has certainly experienced 1 or 2 rises already. When I first got the set I measured it down at 0.008 ftL (0.03 cd/m^2) and then at around 1565 hours it measured double that at 0.015 ftL (0.05 cd/m^2). I haven't used the 58PZ800U TV for almost 2 years now due to moving and renovations so have not had a chance to measure it yet, but IIRC it appeared as though it had experienced it's second rise in black level just based on my observations by eye.

The 42PZ77U always seems to have measured 0.042 ftL (0.14 cd/m^2) since day 0. I'm going to try to re-measure it again soon to see if it has experienced a rise in black level, but I don't think it has at all. It was probably manufactured before Panasonic introduced this "bug".
There is no actual proof or word from Panasonic, but the consensus based on available data is that only 11G/12G/13G models have this rise programmed in. 2007 models should not be affected.
Quote:
Originally Posted by daMaster View Post

A couple of questions about the hardware needed:
  1. Can I use a Funduino Uno R3 instead of the Arduino model which is more than twice the price?
  2. Are the JST PH crimps easy to crimp with a standard crimping tool or does it require a special JST crimper? If I can't crimp them with my existing tools then I will look for the jumper wires from Radio Shack posted earlier in this thread.
As you already found out, Funduino will do. I used exactly the same model. Regarding the crimps, I did not have any crimping tool so just used small pliers. Then I soldered the cable in to make sure it does not slip out. I guess crimping tool would be much better and easier, but did not want to spend any more money and wait for delivery.
Edited by mironto - 10/16/13 at 10:03am
post #10950 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by mironto View Post

I've still got some 40 connectors left. biggrin.gif

 

Are these empty connectors, pins, and wires?  Or are these already made-up?

 

Temping, but I'd also need an LDO voltage regulator if I went the 11-pin route, and that may be more headache than the other.

 

thanks,

..dane

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Plasma Flat Panel Displays
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Plasma Flat Panel Displays › Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight?