Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 60

Originally Posted by L7R

This is a bit late, but cannot find a post where D-nice says this issue affects also G11 models. If D-Nice actually said it, I would like to know if he meant just gradual increase which, of course is true (there always can be issues like that). I really think there are not many G11 model sets in the world where black level SUDDENLY degrades to light gray like on (some) G12 models.

It would be polite and very, very helpful to the community if D-Nice could possibly clarify this a little more, thank you. Just saying G11 models are also affected is pretty shocking to many. At least, I can't found 60page long thread about it.

Originally Posted by Meteor|WAR

Orta actually just posted comparison shots last week of his G10 with the inflated black level, and his new S1 with good black level:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1529

Originally Posted by battousai147

I posted some pics on here a few days ago showing the difference between my g10 and my x1, they are on page 54 of this thread......

Originally Posted by pochoboy

hey, your g10 set don't look bad at all, its pretty dark compared to a set thats completely turned off(no power). Do you experience washed out colors(that'd be a killer)?

I have yet to view my 2month old set in complete darkness with no input but with just the "HDMI" lit in the top right corner of the set(if you're looking at it head on its on left) my black background looks like there's a bit of glow to it.

Originally Posted by pochoboy

hey, your g10 set don't look bad at all, its pretty dark compared to a set thats completely turned off(no power). Do you experience washed out colors(that'd be a killer)?

I have yet to view my 2month old set in complete darkness with no input but with just the "HDMI" lit in the top right corner of the set(if you're looking at it head on its on left) my black background looks like there's a bit of glow to it.

Originally Posted by battousai147

The color did seem a bit more washed compared to when i first bought the set, i have just taken some more pics of my g10 after the repair today, and well i can see a big difference, the photo quality isn't very good but it serves its purpose as a reference. the first pic marked g10 was taken a week or so ago, at night in a completely dark room, the second pic marked g10fixed i took just a few minutes ago, so of course at night in a completly dark room, i used the same camera, with the same pic setting, the only difference is one is before the A board and SS board were replace and one is the after product....what do you guys think.......


I just realized the g10fixed pic has a bit of ir on the left side i had a blu ray paused but its not something permenant, i checked a second ago and its already gone...

Originally Posted by battousai147

The color did seem a bit more washed compared to when i first bought the set, i have just taken some more pics of my g10 after the repair today, and well i can see a big difference, the photo quality isn't very good but it serves its purpose as a reference. the first pic marked g10 was taken a week or so ago, at night in a completely dark room, the second pic marked g10fixed i took just a few minutes ago, so of course at night in a completly dark room, i used the same camera, with the same pic setting, the only difference is one is before the A board and SS board were replace and one is the after product....what do you guys think.......


I just realized the g10fixed pic has a bit of ir on the left side i had a blu ray paused but its not something permenant, i checked a second ago and its already gone...

Originally Posted by pochoboy

Geez, I gotta check my set tonite.

in your "fixed" shot is the tv powered on(I don't see the red light being on)? But yes there is a slight difference from what I see in your pics. The fix cleaned up the bit of glow on the bottom edge pretty well and everything looks pitch black from whats shown. You must be really happy now, but I wonder what it'll look like after a couple of hundred hours, will the glow come back?

edit: I don't see the IR your talking about on the "fixed" shot. btw, the black looks blacker than the piano black bezel, doesn't it?

Originally Posted by modiGTI

Are these shots taken on a black image? Or is there no input?

Originally Posted by Meteor|WAR

Certainly looks improved, but like pochoboy said will it last?

Didnt another member, iVersatile I think was his name, get his board replaced which fixed the black level problem but he already has the issue again?

Originally Posted by battousai147

I certainly hope that this is a permenant fix, but i do know that it does happen after so many hours of use so only time will tell......and for anyone who wants to know the repair guy replace two boards, the A board, and another board that he called the SS board...now as two witch of these boards done the job, well i have no clue, but here's hoping that its permenant...

Originally Posted by jefflackey

Couple of notes:

First, to the poster who said he's talking with Panny techs: I want to believe you are telling the truth, because that would be outstanding. But forgive me for being a little bit questioning, as it seems odd that everything we've heard from Panasonic has been to either deny the problem or (in the case of D-nice's contact) acknowledge but state that nothing will be done at this late date for the 2009 Panasonics. How do you know this tech that has given you inside info and put you on conference calls to gather information and discuss what they will do? What all did they say (an hour long conference call is a long call -there must have been a lot of discussion beyond just repeating what people have said here on the forums?)

Second comment: I'm a freelance writer, primarily in the computer world, as my "second job" and as such I've spent a lot of time interviewing and talking off the record with upper level managers and insiders in companies like Dell, Microsoft, nVidia, Logitech, etc. What I have heard consistently is that a lot of phone calls about an issue will indeed get it elevated to a level at which it will at least get some attention, much more so than emails, and infinitely more so than internet forum postings. One hgh up guy at Dell told me that people on the internet forums are basically there because "They love drama and they live to have some kind of issue to b**** about." The feeling across the board was that people who take the time to find the phone number and call about an issue are more concerned than people who send an email, because emails are so easy to send these days. Also, they all said that the people who take phone calls have to log each call and you have a better chance of being truly heard with them than you do the people they hire to sift through the gazillion emails they get.

So I would say that what the poster who says he talked with the techs said is true about Panasonic needing to get phone calls on the issue. We need to have them bombarded with phone calls complaining about the issue. And the calls need to have some substance they can sink their teeth into, beyond "my blacks look lighter than they used to." Remember, these people get phone calls all day long from idgets who are calling to complain because some channels don't look as good as others and they bought this TV because it was high def! It should make all channels look high definition, that's what the guy at Best Buy said it would do! Or complaining because the channels seem to look funny and then go black during heavy rain ("uh, maam, do you happen to get your TV channels from DirectTV or Dish?") In other words, most of the day these people are getting calls from people who have no idea what they are talking about, so then we call in the middle of their day and say "My black levels don't look as black as they used to." Ask anyone who has worked phone support - their first assumption is naturally going to be "here's another one" - that you don't know what you are talking about.

So - we have to call and speak in a way that makes them pay attention and take the complaint seriously. Speak in terms that lets them know you aren't just another newb. If you can in any way supply data measurements, super! Tell them that you are not a novice, that you understand that plasma technology means that there are some changes as the phosphors age, but you have noticed a very sudden and abrupt change in the black levels. An abrupt change that has completely changed the picture quality - the contrast levels are much worse, the picture has changed overnight from looking deep, sharp, all the reasons you purchased this TV after carefully reading all the reviews and comparing it with the Samsung and Vizio (always good to mention their top competitors!!!) and now, overnight, when you compare the picture with your friend's Samsung or the Samsung that you have in your other room it looks worse rather than so much better before this change occurred. Let them know that you searched online to see if anyone else had this problem AFTER YOU NOTICED IT (so that they don't think that you are complaining because you read about it on an internet forum) and you have discovered that MANY people are reporting the exact same issue on a variety of high end AV forum discussions as well as C/Net, etc.

Originally Posted by Meteor|WAR

AFAIK the A board replacement is not known to fix the black level issue, only the THX issue.

Can I assume your tv's hrs have been reset to zero?

Originally Posted by cristian_ro

loool.... probably that rep was reading of the paper, they are clueless about technical stuff. If you told them about the "pink issue" they will say that panasonic looks forward into fixing the problem !!!

Originally Posted by blwegrzyn

this is what i was told by panasonic through the chat session:

bartosz: Plasma HDTV
Panasonic: Connection established.
Panasonic: Initiating Chat, Please Wait.
Panasonic: Thank you for contacting Panasonic. An agent will answer your request shortly. Please have your product information, model and serial number available so the Panasonic representative can expedite your request.
Panasonic: http://www.panasonic.com
Panasonic: Thank you for your patience. Please continue to wait while a Panasonic representative becomes available to answer your request
Panasonic: http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-electronics/shop/
Panasonic: Thanks for your patience. Your request is important to us. Please continue to wait while a Panasonic representative becomes available to answer your request. If you wish to call us instead, our toll free number is 1-800-211-7262. Again thank you for contacting Panasonic
Panasonic: http://www.panasonic.com/
Panasonic: Connecting... An agent will be with you shortly.
Panasonic: Welcome to Panasonic Chat. A transcript of this chat will be emailed to you once you disconnect.
bartosz: hello, i want to purchase the tc-42G15 but recently i have read a lot of complains about black levels getting worse after 300 hours, many people called panasonic and panasonic confirmed this is a issue, do you know if panasonic is working on it ti fix the problem through the firmware upgrade or it will be not fixed at all?
bartosz: this is were i found out about the problem
bartosz: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php
Antione A: Yes Panasonic is always looking into possible resolutions
bartosz: but will they fix this? are you aware of the problem yourselve?
bartosz: there is so many people that love those tvs but the tv is not for first 300 hours, it should be black for longer time,
Antione A: At this time there is no current firmware for black level, we will have to wait and see what our firmware team will make available
bartosz: but panasonic is aware of the problem?
Antione A: Of course if it becomes such an issue to where it affects the Customer's viewing then we would send out a Service rep to eval
bartosz: so what are my options? get a tv wait until the black level changes and call for support?
bartosz: again are you personally aware of the problem?
Antione A: Yes I am aware of what you are talking about but it does not apply to every unit
Antione A: thats why we would normally get a Rep out to eval the issue
bartosz: so is it related to the hardware? and some have it and some dont? do you know what is the chance to get defected one?
bartosz: what is the percentage of defected units
Antione A: You should not be getting anything defected
bartosz: but from what people say on avs forums almost all of the units have the problem, because it looks like the firmware is program to change the black level settings after some time
Antione A: I am not aware of that Sir
bartosz: do you know if new models g25 have that issue fix or it is the same?
Antione A: No I have not heard of any G25 models having an picture issues at all
bartosz: when the 42tc-g25 will be available for sale?
bartosz: do you also know if there is a manual available for download for g25 series
Antione A: Not yet, 2010 models should all be available starting this Spring
Antione A: Usually around May
Antione A: including the 3D models
bartosz: ok thank you , i wish there would be a firmware upgrade for the black level problem so i could buy it now, but i am still not convinced that panasonic will do anything about it and i am worried to have a tv that will be even worse then LCD afer 300 hours
bartosz: i wish the panasonic would say something like that: we know the problem exist and we are working on the fix that will be coming soon
Antione A: Well as I mention earlier Panasonic is always looking into possible resolutions when theres an issue

bartosz: and as you said they know that there is an issue?
Antione A: We are not sure if a firmware will be released or if theres another fix for this type of issue
bartosz: so can this be called an issue or this is the way tv should operate
Antione A: And see that's the thing theres several owners who own this TV that we speak with on a daily bases that say the unit is operating fine
bartosz: yep but there are many that know the problem and are asking panasonic for help
Antione A: this tells use the issue does not exist on all G15 models , However for those who are having an issue we will certainly see what we can do to resolve it for them
Antione A: Is there anything else we can help you with?

bartosz: no thx
Antione A: Thanks for contacting Panasonic.
Panasonic: chat Disconnected.

Originally Posted by blwegrzyn

this is what i was told by panasonic through the chat session:


Antione A: including the 3D models
bartosz: ok thank you , i wish there would be a firmware upgrade for the black level problem so i could buy it now, but i am still not convinced that panasonic will do anything about it and i am worried to have a tv that will be even worse then LCD afer 300 hours
bartosz: i wish the panasonic would say something like that: we know the problem exist and we are working on the fix that will be coming soon
Antione A: Well as I mention earlier Panasonic is always looking into possible resolutions when theres an issue

bartosz: and as you said they know that there is an issue?
Antione A: We are not sure if a firmware will be released or if theres another fix for this type of issue
bartosz: so can this be called an issue or this is the way tv should operate
Antione A: And see that's the thing theres several owners who own this TV that we speak with on a daily bases that say the unit is operating fine
bartosz: yep but there are many that know the problem and are asking panasonic for help
Antione A: this tells use the issue does not exist on all G15 models , However for those who are having an issue we will certainly see what we can do to resolve it for them
Antione A: Is there anything else we can help you with?

bartosz: no thx
Antione A: Thanks for contacting Panasonic.
Panasonic: chat Disconnected.

Originally Posted by moosekaka

actually i think the agent was very patient....bartosz doesnt even own a Panasonic and he is bombarding him with hypothetical questions bordering on OCD like behavior. Am i the only one on this board to shake my head with this style of questioning and behavior? when I was in singapore we had a term for this behavior....'kiasu'....literal translation 'afraid to lose'. it is not a compliment.

Originally Posted by robi1138

He also says but from what people say on avs forums almost all of the units have the problem...this is hardly the case. Last time I checked the poll, the G10 was around 30% with problems (which is high, but certainly not "almost all")

Originally Posted by blwegrzyn

I was trying to make big issue out of it, to get as much info as possible. My hope was to find out if the fix will be available anytime soon and i was also trying to force the agent to admit that Panasonic is aware of the problem, so we know that they know. I am trying to help everyone here to get the fix asap and if anyone was offended by the way of my chating i am sorry.

Originally Posted by Lindros88

I wasn't offended by it at all. Being an owner of a G10 with this annoying problem, I'm thankful for it.

Originally Posted by blwegrzyn

I was trying to make big issue out of it, to get as much info as possible. My hope was to find out if the fix will be available anytime soon and i was also trying to force the agent to admit that Panasonic is aware of the problem, so we know that they know. I am trying to help everyone here to get the fix asap and if anyone was offended by the way of my chating i am sorry.

Originally Posted by robi1138

He also says but from what people say on avs forums almost all of the units have the problem...this is hardly the case. Last time I checked the poll, the G10 was around 30% with problems (which is high, but certainly not "almost all")

Originally Posted by Meteor|WAR

Certainly looks improved, but like pochoboy said will it last?

Didnt another member, iVersatile I think was his name, get his board replaced which fixed the black level problem but he already has the issue again?