Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 65

I just wanted to chime in with something positive in a string of negative posts.

I've got a 50" G15 with over 600 hours on it (checked via service menu) and my blacks seem pretty much the same, or close, to when I first got it.

So again, the issue might not affect all sets, just a number of them.

are you sure?
it seems that if the blacks turn to bright grey after only a few weeks of use
that kind of invalidates the whole great reason to get this set, doesn't it?
am i supposed to buy a new one every month?
disappointing, because this set was reviewed so highly but i guess reviewers don't review the sets for long enough

how about curtains/shades?

I used to do that (had blackout stuff on the windows) but I prefer to let the sunshine in. (it only really hurts dark scenes, bright scenes still look fine)

All the windows are behind the TV, but the sun reflects off the carpet and glare shines right onto the set in the afternoon.

Hey Guys,

I've decided it's probably best to set up a poll related to these issues, as we can't quite get an accurate gauge of how many people are having problems, and how many aren't, for which model TV's, under how many hours of usage.

G10 Black Issue Poll
V10 Black Issue Poll
G15 Black Issue Poll
S1 Black Issue Poll
X1 Black Issue Poll

Mods, sorry if I've made a mess or if I'm breaking rules, if I have, feel free to delete the polls. Cheers.

While you're at it, the lowly X1 also exhibits the same problem.

Larry

And possibly the U1

We may need an entire forum for these polls...

And how about a poll of those who will not buy until this issue is resolved?

Panasonic responded to my question and said they are aware of the issue(nothing new). They said they are currently looking into what is causing it.

hmm, if they acknowledge the problem could we have a class action suit? If the set was less than $50 I wouldn't care much but this was a big investment on my part. edit: my set doesn't suffer any ill effects of the black level increase as of yet and I hope it doesnt'.

I've very, very rarely seen anyone ever actually put together and successfully prosecute a class action suit from a bunch of us yahoos on a forum complaining. Heck, we can't even all agree here on how many people have the issue, we have more people posting "Look at this picture? Do I have the problem?" than hard data, and I think we've had a total of maybe 3(?) people post actual measured pre- and post-problem data? I doubt Panasonic would shake in their legal boots over that.

Heck, look at how hard it has been to get Panasonic to actually fix the THX problem for all of us who have it, and that is an easily demonstrated and measured problem that they have admitted to.

Also, Sony acknowledged the infamous "flicker" problem with their CRT's in 2004-2005 which they could never fix, but did cover all parts and labor well passed the warranty expirations.
I think the more noise made on these forums, followed by lots of phone calls and e-mails, they may end up having to do something about it. This is of course if it ends up being a widespread problem.

We're already entitled a higher level of support as we paid for a product that is under Panasonic warranty. If we were way out of warranty and didn't complain early on, then dreams of pursuing some other avenue might be worth it.

At this point, continuing to report problematic sets to the Panasonic engineering department for a warranty covered fix is the best way to tackle this.

I am glad I found this thread. I was planning to pull the trigger on a V10 as early as next week.

But now I am concerned that one of the main reasons I was interested in the V10 turns out to be a big problem.

Is anyone else considering postponing a purchase until this issue has a resolution?

I know that Panasonic is looking into the problem. But what if it can't be fixed by a firmware upgrade?

Can't afford a Kuro; have no desire to pay more for a 3D equipped set. Maybe I should keep my 7UK a little longer...

Same here...my 60u is going to be around a while longer...lol The good thing is it's saving me money! Best Buy still has 60 inch Kuros too...but they are very pricey!

Keep your 7UK another 6 months or so and then check out the Pannys then. I will wait not only for the V25s to arrive but want to see if any issues arise so I'm shooting for next Fall, which hopefully might include a price reduction.

Have to stay light on your feet with this stuff.

The question is whether or not the new pannys still will be affected by this rising black issue. If they now have a TV with better blacks then my v10 and they go grey, people will go crazy. I would just really love to know if its just a defect for certain panels only.. It seems that it has to be since not every has it. My v10 has 500-600 hours and looks better than when I first bought it and blacks look better as well. I think ORTA(first to notice this) actually had a problem and everyone else now if freaking out and looking for it when in fact there mind is probably playing tricks on them.

Have you seen some of the pictures in the thread ? Image retention seems to come with the black level. You are probably right that some people are seeing issues that may not be there, my rule of thumb would be that if you have to look hard to notice, you dont have the problem .

So would most guess this is a problem with the S1 as well? I see the OP has a couple that believe so, and I saw the S1 poll but very few have responded to it.

Reason I ask this specifically is that I have a 54S1, and as much as I like the size, it really is too big for my 750 sq ft apartment, and I'm probably going to exchange it for a 50". Problem is, I can't find a 50S1 in stock anywhere near me, but I can find the 50G10. If this black level problem is really that bad I guess I can keep the 54S1 in the hope that someday I can afford a house in the DC suburbs.

Around here stores are clearing out of the Panasonics. I feel I don't have too many options because I'd prefer to buy B&M, I'm not going to get a Samsung cause the minor buzzing on the Panasonic bothers me enough, Pioneer is out of my price range, and I really don't want an LCD again.

Oh, I agree totally. There is panic out there and most of it from folks who do not calibrate, I suspect. The prospect of getting the issue is keeping me from buying the 54V10 right now.

Fo those who actually do have the issue though it is a true deal breaker. I mean we are not talking about a slight change in Black level. Anyone who has seen the effect knows what a crappy thing it is to behold. Looks just like the top photo seen in post #1886. As posted earlier, I can reproduce the effect with my Zenith plasma while checking calibration. Usually it only occurs when the 10 IRE window is anything but a shade of true gray. But my 26" Sony Bravia does not do this even when the window appears magenta gray with all available color temps ... which aren't adjustable in the User menu.

yea, but my only proof is measurements and readings.. pictures from personel cameras do not do any justice for me. Also I think IR is noticed more because you are looking for issues since the blacks are speculated to rise. I would love for someone on this forum to tie black levels and IR together. I heard that it affects all 12g panels but it seems that the v10 has only 2 cases and 1 is from someone that has 100 issues with every tv...

So, are you guys saying there is less of a problem here than some others might claim?

I am still interested in this panel, but need to believe it is as advertised. Or that a serious problem can be fixed.

The V10 floor model at my local BB has many, many hours on it, and I see no gray panels, only deep black.

What is the consensus?

read more careful !!! store vs home and day vs night .... also store PQ is set to vivid. This forum is not a reason for you to dont buy a v10.

I didnt have to look for image retention issues, I could pull up the picture viewer slide show, and you could see the grid lines from being pulled up for 3minutes, days later. When the tech came out, he said the image retention was a bad panel, so they replaced the panel, and the A board. I received the Tv back today. Let me tell you, there is a night and day difference with the contrast levels, black levels, colors no longer looked washed out. Basically I remember why I bought the tv in the first place. Plus my thx mode is fixed and looks really good. As I mentioned, if you have to look for the issue, its probably not affecting your tv, however I can gurantee that if you are having the issue you wouldnt need a measurement to see it, its very obvious.

I just visited panasonic USA and left my information & concern about the black level/retention image rise in my 46g10. I'm hoping more members will do the same.

Well, after a few weeks of reflection and following this thread, I decided to return my german 50V10, which I had kept in the box, for a refund. I explained the reason for my change of mind to the shop who straight away said "yes, that is correct", as if they were aware of the situation.

It's a big disappointment as I was really looking forward to watching this TV. Who knows, it may have turned out not to have this problem at all, but I just didn't want to risk this. Hopefully Panasonic will hear about my reason for returning the set, together with others who are doing the same, and this will prompt them into doing something about it for all those who do have the problem.

By the way I noticed the poll doesn't include the higher end Z1 model. I believe it's only different from the V10 in its design, so chances are it's also affected.

Good luck with it!

I'm off to search for an alternative...

Despite my differences with Larry, I think one of the key data points we have is Larry's chart posted in December. Just showing it here for new comers here. I'm happy with 0.014 ftL on my 400 hrs old, bargain priced 54s1 for now. But I dread the slow rise like Larry experienced, not to mention possible overnight doubling.

Well, Panasonic wants to pick up my set tomorrow they didn't explain why but we'll see what happens. btw, anyone know if the loaner TV they provide will be the same model as mine or will they give me an older model?

So we got phosphor trails, soft picture, black levels increasing, tvs not turning on, and THX mode issues. Did I miss anything?