Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 91

Only about 4 percent of sets are failing the first four years. And most of the failures are in the first year under the factory warranty. IMHO you are still better off to take your chances. Mack etc is collecting 10 grand in warranty fees on 100 sets, and fixing or replacing about four of them. Sweet deal huh? But if you have to get a warranty, Mack is a much better deal than Best Buy etc.

you may be right about the 4% but i think it's higher. when my 42s1 had the a-board replaced in the first two months of ownership i was talking to the tech that came to fix mine and asked if he repairs a lot of the new tv's and stated yes. he says the fail rate is much higher from the traditional crt tech. this is what he stated so take it for what it's worth. i know i purchased a toshiba lcd in 2007 on a great deal, i had it for one day and it had a problem with a vertical line about two inch wide running up the screen and i took it back. i then purchased my panasonic plasma 42s1 and like i stated about two months of ownership and the tv just turned off and i had to have the a-board replaced. maybe i just have bad luck with flat panel tv's. i know i have 3 crt tv's 2 that are hd and one that's not and i have never had a single problem with them. the one is a toshiba rear projection crt the is 17 years old and is still going.

I've been lurking a while, but the picture of my new 46" G15 caused me to want to post. This TV is stunning!

For the price, I'm keeping this bad boy and hope the black hangs in there for me!

BTW....Thanks Randy for all your input and photos!! Certainly assisted my purchase decision.

For those who are responsible with credit cards, contact your card companies and find out what kind of extended warrantees they offer... I bought with my visa gold card, which extends the manufacturer's warrantee for an additional year... zero cost. And since I pay off my balance every month, I'm not paying finance charges for the TV purchase either..

I was uncomfortable paying hundreds of dollars for an 2-4yr warrantee extension -- but when I found out I could get an extra year for free just by using my credit card, I jumped on it...

*IF* black levels are so horrendous after two years from now with no resolution, I can sell on craigslist for a reasonable amount and upgrade to a 2011 or 2012 model... I'm sure the "casual buyer" of a used TV on craigslist will also be less sensitive if they're getting a good deal on a used TV, so it becomes a win-win for everyone. The seller recoups some of their investment to put towards a new model, and the buyer gets a good used TV at a good price.

And I get to enjoy the set thoroughly until then...

just my two cents,
..dane

The tech is wrong according to consumer reports surveys the past few years. Plasma and LCD sets are every bit as reliable in the first few years as CRT direct view type sets ever were. Techs always think everything is junk because they only see the BAD ones...lol. In fact CRT RPTV's were always far more troubleprone in these surveys than flat panels are now. Mircrodisplay sets like SXRD and DLP have had a lot more problems than flat panels too. The Consumer Report survey of thousands of sets is about the best data out there regarding reliablity of varies brands and types of sets. Flat panels have one of the lowest rate of repairs of about any product they survey.

I want to know how many people on this forum have a 11G/12G panel, with well over 1000 hours, that DOES NOT have this problem? There are some, yes?

My blacks are still good after my "fan noise problem" a couple weeks ago...
Its like a car wash. TV had bright blacks for many weeks...
then one day tv made loud fan noises, and boom, things are looking good again.
Darker and not as bright.

Maybe that day was a voltage switch in the firmware.

I'll gather some settings with my I1 this week.

Definately before applying any software updates.

i'm just going by what the tech said and my own personal experience (two flat panels two problems) and i know i will always buy an ext-warranty with any new flat panel because i don't want a $1,000+ paper weight if something does go wrong.

My father, before he retired, designed heatsinks and circuit boards. He's currently working on a neighbors 2 yr old Visio lcd and the guts are all samsung. From what he's telling me, the sets appear to be designed to last a year or two and then parts begin fail due to badly designed boards.

I've known 2 people in the last year that had their 3-4 yr lcd/plasma sets go out and both were replaced without issue using the BB extended warranty. In this day-n-age of ever evolving digital tvs, I feel the extended warranties are a good investment. In the past i've never bought them either.

Kinda hard to argue with a survey of THOUSANDS of owners though, and only a tiny percent are reporting that their sets broke. If they were really so bad a lot higher percentage would be reporting it.

The two G10 units came from Amazon, the V10 came from Panasonic direct.

And the tech picked up my V10 for the refund about 2 hours ago, it is going to Panasonic Japan to be checked out. My refund will take 1-2 weeks to arrive.

As much as I hate to take this further off topic, Consumer Reports is the be-all, end-all product bible.... for non-enthusiasts. I've found their testing of most products to be elementary and, because of that, they get it wrong more often than a publication with that level of influence should. Also, I doubt the vast majority of those that read CR would even notice a problem like the Panny rising blacks issue.

Considering the source, I would say a similar survey taken with AVS members would yield a more reliable result.

Something interesting that came up about the firmware page getting leaked, my tech explained how that happened. IBM was working with Panasonic on their website and they were using cloud computing, and IBM goofed and made the secure website open to the public, which was loaded with unstable firmware still in the testing phase. Big goof up on IBM's part.

And I also mentioned the cnet article, which he had already read as his boss had emailed it to him and said "you were right, it is a real problem" so he has read it and probably a small bit of this thread as well. (making some progress at least)

I believe I picked up my 54G10 last April (whenever they first came out) from Cleveland Plasma. I haven't checked the hours but they should be over 1000 by now.

Anyhow, I'm very fussy about black levels and rate my set as pretty good... especially compared to my previous 50px60u.

Blacks still seem good here. And I just got the thing hooked up to the net a few days ago and it immediately went for the firmware update...

...That had me worried but still no noticeable deterioration in blacks after the update.

As apparently normal with this set, when powered up the screen is grey for a second or two and then shifts down to a much darker level before the picture kicks in. Sounds like some sets don't like to do that.

In all very happy with my set...

Funny if true. But that page has been open to the public for months and months. I remember even being referred to it by a Panasonic customer service rep when I asked where I could D/L the latest firmware for my G10 because I was having issues connecting through Viera Cast (this was before Panny made the FW regularly available on the main site). This was back in October.

Different page, it was for Panasonic insiders only, it had a bunch of beta firmwares, most of which would brick a set if installed.

Is this how the G10 appears to the naked eye, or does it look that light due to increased exposure in the picture? That looks extremely light for any TV, especially a plasma. I'm hoping the picture is exaggerating a bit.

That comparison image is very close to the jump that my 54V10 made overnight, it isn't much of an exagdgeration, they really do get that bright when the blacks rise.

Wow. I don't think I could deal with that.

I thought at least the first pic may have been exaggerated since the low quality LCD in the second photo is darker than the S1 in the first, and the S1 doesn't have a problem as far as I'm gathering. A low quality LCD shouldn't be darker than a good-working plasma.

Exactly right. And if it does fail, do you want BB or Mack or whomever working on your TV or do you want Pansonic working on it?

I stand by what I said...extende warranties in any way, shape, or form are a complete scam. They actually help about 1% of the people who buy them.

I was under the impression that Panasonic, Mack, etc. just paid a certified tech to come look at the TV. If the extended warranty folks aren't as "competent", it may be a good thing.

I have one through Square Trade, and if they can't fix the problem they give you what you paid for the TV. If all extended warranties work like that, it may not be a bad deal. Just take the money and buy something else, which would be especially good if this black level problem can't be fixed anyway. Why have Panasonic attempt to fix an unfixable problem when you can basically get a refund through your extended warranty?

You gotta be kidding...a survey taken on this site of a few dozen hyper-anal individuals such as myself, and all the other over-picky people on here trumps a survey of tens of thousands of ordinary people??
True though that the typical CR survey person is not going to notice the 'minor' things we do. I do notice flat panel tv's at several gyms I visit are on for about 18 hours a day, and out of the dozens of sets I have yet to see one showing any serious problems, or ever seen one replaced. That says something about their reliablity. They may have issues that WE notice, but for most people they working quite reliably.

Not exactly what I had in mind, but I would be more inclined to believe one trusted AVS poster (D-Nice, Chad, etc.) over "tens of thousands" that are largely ignorant to the technology. Case in point, if you surveyed a group of "average Joes" on plasma vs. LCD, don't you think the majority would choose LCD and attribute it to things like appearing brighter on a sales floor, plasmas leaking gasses, and other such nonsense?


These gyms are using consumer-grade panels? Utica, NY is by no means an economically booming area, but every gym I've attended is using commercial-grade flat panels. As an aside, one gym used to ceiling mount 27" tubes directly above the treadmills. Talk about scary!

If Best Buy is unable to fix your television, they have to provide you with either a replacement set, or a new set which is considered equivalent to the one you initially purchased. And from some of the stories I've read, they actually will live up to their end of the bargain, provided there's a real issue that is unfixable.

I can see Best Buy saying something along the lines of elevated black-levels being "normal" for plasmas or that they are unable to see the problem. I mean, I'm usually the one who has to explain to the employees what LCD clouding is, because none of them even know what I'm talking about. Although that CNET article may provide some good solid information to use as leverage.

The gyms I see are using Vizio LCD, Panny consumer grade plasmas, and Sony consumer grade LCD. Never seen a single one out of order.

Are you referring to firmware that fixed the THX issue?

Well I guess I have been in your claimed 1% three times in the past! In 1998 I bought a Hitachi Ultravision CRT RPTV that could not be fixed properly by the numbskull tech's that Circuit City used. They had to replace it based on the no lemon guarantee. I wound up getting a Sony CRT RPTV that had the infamous "flicker" problem. I had the CRT's replaced twice and had the problem occur a third time. Again based on the "no lemon" I had that Sony replaced with another Sony model. This model used Panasonic CRT's which did not have the problem (apparently Sony could not make good CRTs )

When I bought my 58V10 from BB, I bought an extended warranty based on my experiences in the past.

I can assure you that if my display develops any problems at all, I will hold BB accountable and it will be taken care of one way or another. It is just a matter of persistance, patience and good record keeping. By doing this you are in a better position to do battle with the extended warranty companies when they try and weasle out of being accountable.

So, I completely disagree with your statement when it comes to big ticket electronic purchases.

Interesting, thanks.

If the problem is not absolutely systemic, I wonder how it can be software activated as some have theorized? Seems to me that if there was some error in voltage increase, that would be a very specific and unilateral problem.

If you are referring to,
http://www.techtraining.panasonic.com/firmware/

that site was accessible to the public for at least the past four years. There never was a notice that the softtware available there was beta or that it was dangerous to use.


If not, what page are you talking about?

Larry