Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 99

I expected the response but it is still a pathetic answer.

We represent maybe 1/100,000th of the percentage who even know about this issue. With Engadget and CNET blogging about the issue it of course increases awareness but not to the average consumer. Panasonic already has our money so the only group they are concerned with are their future customers. If they assure the voltage increase has been adjusted for the 2010 models then people will buy them.

well, i counted SIX ppl (from the first post of Orta on this thread) where they have posted their ACTUAL meter measurements. the rest fall under the "my eyes have noticed the screen becoming grayer since i bought it). six is "plenty"?

i see it just got picked up by engadget and gizmodo:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/04/p...a-hdtvs-but-q/

http://gizmodo.com/5464704/panasonic...s-a-good-thing

This is definitely not getting brushed under the rug now.

Those are my suspicions as well. Many people in this thread blame the voltage regulation software just because D-Nice called the aggressive voltage changes a "goof". However, considering the extremely unpredictable nature of the issue I believe the voltage regulation software is just the catalyst to the problem, the source of the problem is probably the panel itself. Who knows what design changes they made to get closer to Kuro blacks and decrease power consumption while increasing brightness at the same time ?

Their statement on Cnet sounds like a typical cover story. Earlier in this thread, people talked about Panasonic's patent where they applied voltage changes at 650,800 and 1000 hours. According to those plots, black levels are expected to change but certainly NOT drastically. The 2010 "gradual" voltage adjustments sound nothing but an attempt to hide the real problem and make the symptoms less noticable to the average Joe. I think anybody with some common sense should avoid 2010 models like a plague, it would be an extremely risky purchase.

Thank god for this. Its spreading like wildfire. How can Panasonic not do something about this now?

This is great, they will forsure have to come out with a fix now.

Yeah, and quick imo. The quicker they fix this, the better for everyone. I'd think they'd want to get this fixed before the 2010 models are released.

We got engadget now reccomending that anyone hold off on purchasing Panny plasmas now. We're set, and set soon probably before the 2010 models are released. This is no longer an "issue on AVS forum", it has spread to 3 MAJOR review sites. That Panny reply to CNET was the nail in the coffin for Panasonic.

sorry to stumble in... I've got a Kuro 8G, thanks in part to advice from members of this forum.

I noticed on Gizmodo today a link back to AVS via the C-Net report, mentioning D-Nice's name.

Only a couple weeks ago, I convinced my friends to buy a 46" Panny, one I just calibrated (via Spears and Munsil BD, nothing super extravagant). I was super pleased that for a set almost 1/9th the cost of mine (smaller, yes, too) I was able to get a picture that, while not perfect, was pretty damn good. Back when I bought my set, the competition was so outclassed by the Kuro, I was pleased to see how far things had come in just a few years.

Now, this. I'm not being hyperbolic, but it's indeed a twisted "bait-and-switch" if one of the key factors of these sets, namely excellent grayscale performance with deep blacks and bright whites, is compromised by a strange workaround meant, seemingly, to extend the life of a set.

I just wanted to poke my nose into this thread and give significant props to the many of you who tirelessly toil on the behalf of people like myself - educated consumers, yes, but without the technical background or tenacity to see such things brought to light. As much of this hobby has become little more than a sniping contest, with different agendas bandied about, it's still amazing to me that a community such as this can bring to light (as it were) such a dramatic issue, and, hopefully, will make Panny take action.

Yes, there will now be the usual Plasma vs. LCD sillyness (Plasma FTW!), and I don't want to prejudge the actions of Panny before they set things right. However, I'm comforted to know that there's a select group of you out there looking out for our best interests, and, if not always articulated, it's most definitely appreciated.

I think the fact that there has been such a massive influx of responses since Panasonic sent that reply to CNET shows just how much of a stupid response it really was!

All I can say is that if anything Panasonic has made things double as hard for themselves by responding like that, because nobody is going to accept this rubbish technology and treatment as OK, because Panasonic says so!

Panasonic are really playing with fire here, I think that if they continue going on like this they are going to lose a massive portion of the market and maybe even kill off what was left of Plasma tech, with this absolutely monumental stuff up!

To everyone who took the time to email David Katzmeier at Cnet about this weeks ago, give your selves a pat on the back. It was certainly worthwhile. The pressure is really on Panasonic now. Thank you.

My third set has the issue like the two before it, so how can you say, it affects only 1 percent or so?

as a Panny 46g15 owner and a lawyer who has some experience in class action litigation, I think Panasonic has made a pretty damaging admission. I am in contact with another colleague tonight who is monitoring the forum for a possible action. I still do not wish to raise anyone's expectations but it seems the situation for Panasonic is not improving.

Please give the history of all three sets. I'd like to know how many hours you had on them, etc. Were the first two replaced?

All I have to say is WOW what was Panasonic thinking?

They've put such a huge red X on their backs replying and making the issue public and major like this without a fix. They just confirmed something without a timetable or plans for a fix.

Even if I don't feel affected by this issue (as a 58V10 user I feel my black levels have been constant and satisfying) what justification do I have for buying Panasonic products in the future? None. Until they fix this issue (and quickly) I'm done recommending them to friends and done buying them myself.

What a complete PR cockup.

Not many S1 owners have reported the problem.

^ There are 6,503 posts in the S1 thread. moosekaka, who posts in there all the time and measures his tv with a meter very often, says he doesn't know of anyone in that thread who has confirmed their black levels have risen.

The very first post in this thread, which was updated this afternoon, only mentions two posters who own S1s. They only suspect their levels have risen, they don't have measurements.

If the problem is as widespread as many claim, and affects all 12G panels, you would expect someone to have confirmed it in an S1.

Or go out of business. (kidding I hope)

So I bought a 65S1 on Monday even after reading this thread in the hopes it was an isolated issue and then I read on Engadget Panasonic's response to the situation. Now it appears to be an inherent problem in their design. I really don't want to have to keep recalibrating the set and I really don't want gray blacks. Even if my set isn't affected, do I want to take the chance? What should I do? My wife just took receipt of it today so I can easily return it, but I haven't a clue for what.

If you're a gambler that likes the low odds of having Panasonic come out with a fix for the rising black levels, you could keep the set. The sure thing of a 100% no black level rise would be to return the set.

Only you know whats best for you

edit: I'm into my 3rd month of use thus not being able to return the unit for a refund, otherwise I would have, to tell you the truth. As someone has pointed out its the nail in the coffin that all 11g/12g sets will have the black rise in the future. Garrans ball bearings!

Do some reading in The Official S1 Thread. There are 217 pages. Longtime posters in there say they can't recall one single post in the thread about an S1 with the problem.

Well this revelation is only compounded by the fact that my wife is unhappy with the picture quality after tweaking in the user menu. I have not seen the set myself so I can't comment, but this late information is only pushing me closer to returning it. I hate gambling and the fact that I went through two Sony RPTVs (KDS50 and KDS60A3000) in the last four years has made me even more gun shy.

I have read that thread exhaustively. That is what prompted me to settle on the S1. The problem I have is that I am knowingly gambling on the quality of the set and that is really hard for me to do.

Let's hope that Panasonic knows absolutely nothing of D-Nice's contacts. I bet that information train is now off the tracks.

Like many I have been a champion of Panasonic and am a bit disappointed. I haven't noticed a problem myself, but I take issue with Panasonic waiting until CNet decides to call them on the issue. It shouldn't have taken a major media outlet to get them to address consumers. Not to mention the response is lacking to say the least.

I emailed Toyota.

Somethings missing here but I know not many have light measuring meters. But Panasonic should issue some type of specs as to the tolerance of black level rise.

Or if not, I would hope everyone of you out there call Panasonic and make a service appointment to have your set inspected!

For plasma enthusiasts like myself, Panasonic's response is as worrying as it startling. While Samsung has made huge strides in some of their models (860/650 in particular), Panasonic remains the bearer of the plasma standard in a post-Kuro world. News that fluctuating black levels are an inherent part of their technology effectively castrates the picture quality virility they are leading with - consistent and inky black levels.

This is bad news for Panasonic, and more importantly, bad news for plasma. It's going to make a lot of us hesitate on their newest models and only fuel the fire of the LCD lemmings charging to the vibrant glow on best buy walls.

Fingers crossed Panasonic sorts out the issue and slows the clock and puts this issue to rest for a sake of their financial longevity and plasma's as well.

Instead of "infinite black" they should bite off of Samsung and make it their own. "Touch of Grey" This guy could be their spokesperson.

I emailed

Elvis Presley

Please remove the floor mat from the driver's side of your plasma, to keep the voltage accelerator from sticking.