or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Plasma Flat Panel Displays › Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 104

post #3091 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rpresner View Post

So I wanted to see what other sets were measuring since I already told people I can reach .007 on my v10. Like I said before I had a bunch of friends with in the area I live in with 12g panasonics. I was able to send my friend to 8 of there houses in the last week. Not one tv(hours of use between 100-2000 hours) measured more than .010 running in custom mode.. Some were calibrated some were not. The tvs were s,v,g and 1 z model. This still leads me to believe there is an issue but is completely isolated to such a small number of sets. I believe Dnice stating it affects all models, just not all sets. My opinion is that certain break in methods or maybe power supply or something the user does to affect this. Not one person that was tested did any break in procedures. If you read the article on cnet it states that the levels will rise over time but not double like some people have PROVED and most that speculate and refuse to you prove. Its really baffles me why some people say "why should I use a meter when my eyes let me see the problem".. well sorry to say the eyes can play serious tricks on you..thats been proved.. so what needs to happen is everyone that has a problem, post on a new thread just meter readings on certain tv modes with content. Not just a blank screen with no input. EVERYONE should no there is a glow on a black screen. My tv reads .007 and has a glow in a all dark room...

Were you the person talking about being in telephone conferences with Panny engineers who were trying to figure out the problem, etc?

Whatever happened to those teleconferences and follow-up?
post #3092 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmoh00 View Post

Most s1 measurements i've seen in the s1 thread are near 0.014 ftL.

What meter was used and what size were your friends' tv's?

I can find out the exact name of the meter. I just texted my friend. I dont have a clue on this stuff to be dead honest(meter speaking). his statement was this" I went over to there houses and checked on this(its basically most people I grew up with, hence all having the same type of tv's being recommended to each other), and i really did not get a reading higher than .010".. He told me who he went to and I know what tvs they have. Ill check what the s1 had, but I know that only one of my friends has a s1 and its a 50 or 54 inch... ill edit this post when he texts me back.
post #3093 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick46 View Post

Lets see, you have these Plasmas and have been happy with them and now you have discovered this thread and now your going to be unhappy. My suggestion is forget this thread and go back to being happy.

My G15 looks great!

This is the truth...

That is why I caution people who are happy with their gear to never, ever look at AVSforum!!
post #3094 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefflackey View Post

Were you the person talking about being in telephone conferences with Panny engineers who were trying to figure out the problem, etc?

Whatever happened to those teleconferences and follow-up?

Yep, i was trying to help out other people and also was trying to figure out if it will affect every tv or just some of every model. Then they were asking me certain questions about my black levels and asking me to email any info I had. Well when your TV is measureing .007 i would not call that an issue so I could not jsut send ORTA's stuff with my serial number... in the end what good would that do. Whats to follow up with? like I have said many times, i will not believe this is a widespread issue based on what people see..maybe its ignorant but i love proof since I can not see peoples sets and pictures mean nothing. WHY is it so hard to start a thread and for every person that said YES i have an issue on this other black issues poll thread, and post your meter readings... if its such an issue I would think people would want to do that.. i did.... i mean for as big of an issue that this is turn out to be, its joke that there is 6 people with readings that show this issue... sorry buts it actually funny how many people are rolling with this. Most panasonic owners i bet will not experience this if there very knowledgable in this area (avs)... its my opinion and you might not like it, but I have not had any prove me wrong so far. And for the peopl ewho have an ACTUAL issue I hope you get yours resovled or get a new set. thank youj
post #3095 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rpresner View Post

I can find out the exact name of the meter. I just texted my friend. I dont have a clue on this stuff to be dead honest(meter speaking). his statement was this" I went over to there houses and checked on this(its basically most people I grew up with, hence all having the same type of tv's being recommended to each other), and i really did not get a reading higher than .010".. He told me who he went to and I know what tvs they have. Ill check what the s1 had, but I know that only one of my friends has a s1 and its a 50 or 54 inch... ill edit this post when he texts me back.

OK, let us know.

The reason I asked is because the accuracy of black level reading is VERY dependent on the meter used. IIRC, the cheap Spyder2 and the expensive i1pro are both garbage when it comes to the black level measurement while the i1LT seems to be pretty good. 0.014 ftL readings of s1 were mostly (if not all) done with i1LT.
post #3096 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by donnymac51 View Post

Gotcha.. you did the checkerboard test. I also did that and came up with 1214 ansi and 2115 on/off CR. I missed the word ANSI in your post..sorry. Mine was done about a month ago so maybe I should check again.

No problem. I am so tired with this black level bug, thinking of selling my tv and getting cheap sony or samsung lcd.
post #3097 of 11163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by donnymac51 View Post

Orta,
Your blacks and hours used are about the same as mine. Do me a favor and check your vivid mode and see if it shuts down to infinite black like it is supposed to. Thanks

I have never been able to produce the infinite black feature on the G10. I think I've tried every combination of blank inputs, source + black image, Energy Savings/Eco mode settings, CATs--nothing has been successful. I'm pretty sure I never tried before the inflation (as it happened to early), so I'm not sure if the problems are related.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sakke View Post

Today I measured my old sony 32v4500 (year 2008 european model) which I sold to a friend. When I turned the tv on I couldn´t believe how good the blacks looked. Both sets meausured pretty much same in black screen (sony 0.015 fL panasonic 0.016 fL) when brightness was adjusted to 34 fL. When there was content on screen sony destroyed panasonic. Ansi contrast in sony was 2266:1 (0.015 fL black, 34 fL white) while panasonic only managed 1080:1 (0.030 fL black, 32.4 fL white). Measurements were taken in dark room.

I still can´t believe how grey panasonic looks on dark scenes compared to sony. I have one question to Orta, is your and mine meausurements comparable if I measure my black level with the same peak brightness as you (140 cd/m2) ?

I don't see why they wouldn't be comparable. You can see my ANSI's in the OP went from about 1700 to 1300. I suspect this probably depends on how careful you are with the meter placement in the checkerboard.
post #3098 of 11163
Hey Orta, how is the 65S1 so far, done any readings recently?
post #3099 of 11163
The firmware page is up again. But cannot select the plasma firmware page.
post #3100 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

This is the truth...

That is why I caution people who are happy with their gear to never, ever look at AVSforum!!

+1, if you want to go looking for a problem you'll find one. Even on a Kuro. Not discounting everyone's experience, I'm just saying there is no need for the panic that seems to be manifesting out of Panasonic's acknowledgement and CNet's story. If you've been experiencing the problem you should feel vindicated, but if you've been enjoying your display you should continue to do so regardless of what anyone else has to say.
post #3101 of 11163
Hello there, I was reading all the posts in this thread, I have a TC-P54S1, i got it for $1,050 ( a good bargain) here in Sears of SJ Puerto Rico. I got 300+ hours and counting. I got 0.011 on black levels using Chroma 5 light meter, just checking black levels weekly!
post #3102 of 11163
I know this is stupid question but could someone explain me why samsung 40b6000 is rated worse than panasonic 42g10 regarding black level and contrast.

To me it seems Samsung contrast is 3184:1 and black 0.0326 cd/m2 while panasonic is 906:1 and black 0.11 cd/m2.
post #3103 of 11163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by exbagboy View Post

Hey Orta, how is the 65S1 so far, done any readings recently?

I calibrated it about a week ago and the timer just over 300 hours. It measured 0.008fL. I need to see if I can get Infinite Black to work on it, never tried.
post #3104 of 11163
The "infinate black level" appearently does not work on all the displays, even though it is supposed to. I tried it a few weeks ago on my V10, and it never kicked in. I am going to try it again tonight.
BTW, I do not have the rising black levels.
post #3105 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov View Post

The "infinate black level" appearently does not work on all the displays, even though it is supposed to. I tried it a few weeks ago on my V10, and it never kicked in. I am going to try it again tonight.
BTW, I do not have the rising black levels.

I'd like to take part in this infinate black level test. Now, is this done in a dark room with a blank input screen then switching the picture settings to "Vivid" ? Then if its working correctly the panel should turn off and not have that slight glow that the other picture settings(custom,thx, standard) would have?
post #3106 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orta View Post

I calibrated it about a week ago and the timer just over 300 hours. It measured 0.008fL. I need to see if I can get Infinite Black to work on it, never tried.

it is interesting because the S1 seems to get less black level complaints on the S1 thread. do keep us updated as the hours go by on this set, thanks.
post #3107 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by sakke View Post

I know this is stupid question but could someone explain me why samsung 40b6000 is rated worse than panasonic 42g10 regarding black level and contrast.

To me it seems Samsung contrast is 3184:1 and black 0.0326 cd/m2 while panasonic is 906:1 and black 0.11 cd/m2.

That should be .011 for the panny
post #3108 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmoh00 View Post

OK, let us know.

The reason I asked is because the accuracy of black level reading is VERY dependent on the meter used. IIRC, the cheap Spyder2 and the expensive i1pro are both garbage when it comes to the black level measurement while the i1LT seems to be pretty good. 0.014 ftL readings of s1 were mostly (if not all) done with i1LT.

read below

Originally Posted by exbagboy
Hey Orta, how is the 65S1 so far, done any readings recently?

I calibrated it about a week ago and the timer just over 300 hours. It measured 0.008fL. I need to see if I can get Infinite Black to work on it, never tried.

not everyone is reading .014... ORTA is getting a reading of .008
post #3109 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by donnymac51 View Post

That should be .011 for the panny

You mean 0.011 cd/m2? That ain´t possible.
post #3110 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by nesterpr View Post

Hello there, I was reading all the posts in this thread, I have a TC-P54S1, i got it for $1,050 ( a good bargain) here in Sears of SJ Puerto Rico. I got 300+ hours and counting. I got 0.011 on black levels using Chroma 5 light meter, just checking black levels weekly!


Does that light meter cost more than your TV
post #3111 of 11163
Ralph: Plasma HDTV
Panasonic: Connection established.
Panasonic: Initiating Chat, Please Wait.
Panasonic: Connecting... An agent will be with you shortly.
Panasonic: Welcome to Panasonic Chat. A transcript of this chat will be emailed to you once you disconnect.
Ralph: Cool.
Keren C: Hello How can I assist you today ?
Ralph: Hi, I have a 65V10 with a piece of something stuck to the second panel of glass. I thought it was a dead pixel but I can see that it is not.
Keren C: how long have you had the unit
Ralph: Only 3 days. It's brand new.
Keren C: one monent please
Keren C: have you contacted the store where you purchased it
Ralph: No. I had to exchange a different one (same model) because it had other problems, but this seems easily fixed. We just need to get to that second panel of glass and wipe it off with a microfiber cloth.
Keren C: the first and second panal arefused together the entire screen would have to be replaced
Ralph: Bummer. So there is basically nothing I can do. It seems like such an easy thing to take care of.
Ralph: Wait, I don't think you understand. Are you saying that the very outer panel (the one I can touch) is fused to the other two? Doesn't seem probable as that would defeat the purpose of the outer panel.
Keren C: im sorry is there anything else i can assist with
Ralph: Yes you could answer the other question I had. The outer panel is a protective panel which can be replaced. How can't it be removed?
Keren C: the outer and inner panal are together
Ralph: So why the outer panel? I have read that the outer panel can be replaced.
Ralph: Could you please check and be sure about that because it makes no sense.
Keren C: one moment
Keren C: i have checked with the technicain here and no the outer panal cant be removed
Ralph: Yes it can!!! I just read about someone who did it!!! Come on people, we are talking about a $4,000.00 piece of equipment here. The outer glass is attatched to the bezel, and then there are 2 inner panels fused together to contain the panels. You are making yourself, and your tech look silly. Check it some more!!!
Ralph: I meant to write to contain the gasses not the panels. Sorry.
Ralph: Basically you are implying that you cannot replace the bezel either correct? The bezel is attached to the outer glass.
Keren C: coming from an upper level tech the outer panal cant be replaced by itself
Ralph: Oh my god. Is Karen C your real name? What is the name of your "upper level tech?"
Ralph: Ask him if the bezel can be replaced?
Ralph: If he says the bezel can be replaced then he needs to get a job at Mc Donald's serving french fries because he is going to break someone's T.V.
Keren C: he has already stated that it cant it there anything else I can help you with today
Ralph: No, you said nothing about the bezel. Ask him about the bezel.
Keren C: checking one moment
Keren C: im sorry im not getting a response we are in a heavy call volume right now
Ralph: Haha this is classic!! I think I know why he is not responding. Do you have any way of finding out if the bezel can be removed?
Keren C: no
Ralph: You know that this is being documented. Do you really want to give these kind of responses? I am a good customer who payed a lot of money for a top Panasonic product. I want you to find this out for me.
Keren C: im trying to confirm the inof for you
Ralph: I thought you might say that.
Ralph: Take your time, I've got all day.
Keren C: ive been advised this would be either an exchange or service issue did you want to create a case for service or contact the store where it was purchased
Ralph: Wow. Sure, set me up for some service, and I would like your name as well.
Keren C: karen ext 5409
Keren C: i need yyour first name last name zip code and then also the address where the tv is located
Ralph:
Keren C: date of purchase and serial number on the tv
Ralph: DOP is 01/30/2010
Keren C: what doesthe object look like
Keren C: is it a spot a blotch piece of debris
Ralph: It looks like a cracker crumb. I can see the reflection on the very inner panel if I look at it from the side with a flashlight.
Keren C: the case number for the tv is 27151481 you will be receiving a callback from the service locating group inthe next 24 to 48hrs
Ralph: Should I even ask you if there is any word on if the black level issue is going to be fixed or not?
Keren C: the issue is know to panasonic and is currently under investigation by our engineering dept
Ralph: That's about what I expected. Any way for me to contact an actual tech about this issue? Is there a number where I can reach a tech?
Ralph: I meant the crumb not the black level issue.
Keren C: the service locating group will be calling you with a servicer in your area for an appt
Ralph: I meant is there a panny tech I can speak to at your CS number until then?
Keren C: no we dont have a direct number for csut to contact them
Ralph: You don't have a tech support department?
Keren C: not a direct acces for the cust to call to
Ralph: Awesome. You have been an absolute joy to deal with. Thank you so much and have a wonderful day. Cheese sandwiches.
Ralph: Potatoes.
Keren C: Thank you for contacting Panasonic
Ralph: Gray kitten with diarrhea.
Panasonic: chat Disconnected.

Yes, another wonderful chat with yet another clueless Panasonic IDIOT!!! If they know this little about something so simple and obvious, you may as well forget about the black level issue EVER truly being "fixed". I wouldn't be supprised if they suggested that we buy window tint and cover the screen with it to make things darker. Uh oh, I think I just helped them with a fix.
post #3112 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by khkg View Post

Personally, I'd rather they let it degrade/dim naturally and just have to up the brightness every once in a while. The sets are plenty bright.

.
post #3113 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick46 View Post

Lets see, you have these Plasmas and have been happy with them and now you have discovered this thread and now your going to be unhappy. My suggestion is forget this thread and go back to being happy.

My G15 looks great!

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

This is the truth...

That is why I caution people who are happy with their gear to never, ever look at AVSforum!!


Well for most consumers, normally I'd agree with you both. However, I've spent as much time and years on AVS for a reason; I'm very critical of my display. Hence the reason I come here, and the reason I waited until 2008 to get a plasma.

It's only to be expected that the AVS types will gather here. Yes, I'm happy now, but if I see even a hint that my black levels are dropping I'll not be happy.

I'm not really in the Ignorance is Bliss category, so I'd like to be on top of the situation.
post #3114 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rpresner View Post

read below

Originally Posted by exbagboy
Hey Orta, how is the 65S1 so far, done any readings recently?

I calibrated it about a week ago and the timer just over 300 hours. It measured 0.008fL. I need to see if I can get Infinite Black to work on it, never tried.

not everyone is reading .014... ORTA is getting a reading of .008

FWIW, Orta's latest number on 65s1 is up from the initial measurment at 0.006 ftL shown on the first page of this thread. The s1 thread contains no cal reports of 65s1. The 0.014 ftL readings were all for 54" or smaller panels IIRC. D-nice commented that 58 and 65" panels have lower initial MLL. That's why I also asked you about the panel sizes of your friends TVs.

Folks, when you report the black level problem or the lack thereof, please be specific about the model size, not just the series.
post #3115 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by sakke View Post

You mean 0.011 cd/m2? That ain´t possible.

I gotta start reading these posts closer or stop drinking so early. I was thinking ftl. Where did those panny numbers come from? They are even worse than what I have on my set right now. that link doesn't work.
post #3116 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by donnymac51 View Post

I gotta start reading these posts closer or stop drinking so early. I was thinking ftl. Where did those panny numbers come from? They are even worse than what I have on my set right now. that link doesn't work.

I hope these work:

http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Pana...10-Review.html

http://www.avforums.com/reviews/incl..._greyscale.jpg
post #3117 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by afxtwn View Post


Yes, another wonderful chat with yet another clueless Panasonic IDIOT!!! If they know this little about something so simple and obvious, you may as well forget about the black level issue EVER truly being "fixed". I wouldn't be supprised if they suggested that we buy window tint and cover the screen with it to make things darker. Uh oh, I think I just helped them with a fix.

I say give that CSR a medal for putting up with your attitude. It sounds like you have bigger problems than a blemish on your screen. And then you act surprised when they didn't want to give you a direct line to a tech.
post #3118 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHUCKCHILLOUT View Post

Does that light meter cost more than your TV

You are correct, but doing jobs with the meter got me the $$$$ for the plasma.
post #3119 of 11163


That UK Panasonic report ot the 42G10 shows 0.0000 ftL before calibration and 0.0333 ftL after calibration.

Larry
post #3120 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by afxtwn View Post

Ralph: Plasma HDTV
Panasonic: Connection established.
Panasonic: Initiating Chat, Please Wait.
Panasonic: Connecting... An agent will be with you shortly.
Panasonic: Welcome to Panasonic Chat. A transcript of this chat will be emailed to you once you disconnect.
Ralph: Cool.
Keren C: Hello How can I assist you today ?
Ralph: Hi, I have a 65V10 with a piece of something stuck to the second panel of glass. I thought it was a dead pixel but I can see that it is not.
Keren C: how long have you had the unit
Ralph: Only 3 days. It's brand new.
Keren C: one monent please
Keren C: have you contacted the store where you purchased it
Ralph: No. I had to exchange a different one (same model) because it had other problems, but this seems easily fixed. We just need to get to that second panel of glass and wipe it off with a microfiber cloth.
Keren C: the first and second panal arefused together the entire screen would have to be replaced
Ralph: Bummer. So there is basically nothing I can do. It seems like such an easy thing to take care of.
Ralph: Wait, I don't think you understand. Are you saying that the very outer panel (the one I can touch) is fused to the other two? Doesn't seem probable as that would defeat the purpose of the outer panel.
Keren C: im sorry is there anything else i can assist with
Ralph: Yes you could answer the other question I had. The outer panel is a protective panel which can be replaced. How can't it be removed?
Keren C: the outer and inner panal are together
Ralph: So why the outer panel? I have read that the outer panel can be replaced.
Ralph: Could you please check and be sure about that because it makes no sense.
Keren C: one moment
Keren C: i have checked with the technicain here and no the outer panal cant be removed
Ralph: Yes it can!!! I just read about someone who did it!!! Come on people, we are talking about a $4,000.00 piece of equipment here. The outer glass is attatched to the bezel, and then there are 2 inner panels fused together to contain the panels. You are making yourself, and your tech look silly. Check it some more!!!
Ralph: I meant to write to contain the gasses not the panels. Sorry.
Ralph: Basically you are implying that you cannot replace the bezel either correct? The bezel is attached to the outer glass.
Keren C: coming from an upper level tech the outer panal cant be replaced by itself
Ralph: Oh my god. Is Karen C your real name? What is the name of your "upper level tech?"
Ralph: Ask him if the bezel can be replaced?
Ralph: If he says the bezel can be replaced then he needs to get a job at Mc Donald's serving french fries because he is going to break someone's T.V.
Keren C: he has already stated that it cant it there anything else I can help you with today
Ralph: No, you said nothing about the bezel. Ask him about the bezel.
Keren C: checking one moment
Keren C: im sorry im not getting a response we are in a heavy call volume right now
Ralph: Haha this is classic!! I think I know why he is not responding. Do you have any way of finding out if the bezel can be removed?
Keren C: no
Ralph: You know that this is being documented. Do you really want to give these kind of responses? I am a good customer who payed a lot of money for a top Panasonic product. I want you to find this out for me.
Keren C: im trying to confirm the inof for you
Ralph: I thought you might say that.
Ralph: Take your time, I've got all day.
Keren C: ive been advised this would be either an exchange or service issue did you want to create a case for service or contact the store where it was purchased
Ralph: Wow. Sure, set me up for some service, and I would like your name as well.
Keren C: karen ext 5409
Keren C: i need yyour first name last name zip code and then also the address where the tv is located
Ralph:
Keren C: date of purchase and serial number on the tv
Ralph: DOP is 01/30/2010
Keren C: what doesthe object look like
Keren C: is it a spot a blotch piece of debris
Ralph: It looks like a cracker crumb. I can see the reflection on the very inner panel if I look at it from the side with a flashlight.
Keren C: the case number for the tv is 27151481 you will be receiving a callback from the service locating group inthe next 24 to 48hrs
Ralph: Should I even ask you if there is any word on if the black level issue is going to be fixed or not?
Keren C: the issue is know to panasonic and is currently under investigation by our engineering dept
Ralph: That's about what I expected. Any way for me to contact an actual tech about this issue? Is there a number where I can reach a tech?
Ralph: I meant the crumb not the black level issue.
Keren C: the service locating group will be calling you with a servicer in your area for an appt
Ralph: I meant is there a panny tech I can speak to at your CS number until then?
Keren C: no we dont have a direct number for csut to contact them
Ralph: You don't have a tech support department?
Keren C: not a direct acces for the cust to call to
Ralph: Awesome. You have been an absolute joy to deal with. Thank you so much and have a wonderful day. Cheese sandwiches.
Ralph: Potatoes.
Keren C: Thank you for contacting Panasonic
Ralph: Gray kitten with diarrhea.
Panasonic: chat Disconnected.

Yes, another wonderful chat with yet another clueless Panasonic IDIOT!!! If they know this little about something so simple and obvious, you may as well forget about the black level issue EVER truly being "fixed". I wouldn't be supprised if they suggested that we buy window tint and cover the screen with it to make things darker. Uh oh, I think I just helped them with a fix.

Seems like you handled it well.......
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Plasma Flat Panel Displays
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Plasma Flat Panel Displays › Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight?