Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 118

If Panasonic can solve the problem, I suspect they will.

In the wke of Toyota, it looks bad to be hiding and refusing to fix problems.
I do not think Panasonic can afford to have the Narative become:


All that leaves for Plasma is angle viewing. Yikes!

- Rich

Which was ?

Except they said they won't.

Look, I'm as sick about this as everyone else is. Now that I have a 2,000 dollar clunker.

I'll be demanding a refund, but I'm not holding out any hope that I'll ever see a cent of it. This whole thing has just been sickening to me. I might as well have just set a pile of cash on fire.

Now after I thought I was set for the next several years, I have to go out and buy a new TV AGAIN. After 3 GODDAMN MONTHS.

I accept I got screwed on this, but at least a few people have been hearing about this and staying away from Panasonics. For those of you who, like me, have been completely screwed over by this issue, even if we may not see any type of relief, at least we can save a few people from our fate.

OK, call me crazy but I still can't figure out how to properly check this whole Infinite Black thing. I've tried using a blank input on Vivid mode, even tried a black (0,0,0) jpeg and looked for (but couldn't find) the 0% IRE pattern on the AVSHD calibration disc. now I'm beginning to wonder if I even know what I am supposed to look for?!? When one says "...shut the panel off completely", what should I see - a completely black screen? Thanks in advance!

I think you are a bit overreacting. As if you were saying all the people that bought LCD televisions 5 years back (with blacks maybe 3x the "broken" panasonic) and are still using them were living all those years with an ultimate unwatchable crap

zuma15 I feel your pain. I do wish to thank the good people of AVSForum for warning me of this issue so I was able to cancel my V10 order before it filled. I cited this very issue as the reason to Panasonic. Hopefully the media storm that is building along with the lost sales will prod Panasonic into action.

I'd still like to by a V25 later this year, but that is ABSOLUTELY dependent on how they handle this issue with the V10 and if they can guarantee it is an issue that will not plague the 13g panels as well.

-Jim

Based on the new CSR responses, it is clear that Panasonic has decided that they can get away with claiming the TV is working the way it is supposed to, brush this under the rug, and assume all focus on the forums but in particular the review sites and news sites will be on the new 2010 sets. It appears they feel if they can show that they have "improved" the votage adjustment algorithm they can just say, "hey the previous generation sets work they way we designed them, no problem, and the 2010 sets are even better! So why are you guys talking about the 11G/12G sets, that's old news!"

Again, the only way we are going to get them to spend any time and effort on this is to somehow convince them it will hurt their sales of the 2010 generation of sets if they don't. That's the bottom line, and the only thing that will move them to action. Now the question is how to do that.

Has anyone attempted to contact Panasonic and say that not just your black levels have risen, but complained that the infinite black feature was not working?

Glad to see this thread back on topic. As a sidenote, I had to go over a neighbor's to watch the Stupid Bowl last night. He had a 65" Sharp LCD. It was set in the "torch" mode, colors all too pastel and bright. Must have been a cheapo 60 Hz model because it had motion issues too. Dunno how he could look at it setup like that (he even had it in the wide mode in HD, which I corrected). When I got home my TH-46PZ800U just looked fantastic in comparison, even with the grayed black levels.

And Panasonic never did answer the email I sent them through their website last Tuesday about the black level issue.

Tony,

Make sure your set has been on for at least an hour & switch to HDMI say with nothing from the device on that input turned on. Set your screen to Vivid & exit the Menu. You should see the panel turn off just as if the set was not turned on. If you switch it back to say Custom & exit the menu you're tv will have a glow to the screen.

LOL some feature the Infinite Black is if you have to run the tv for an hour or more to get it to engage. That's like having the turbo-charger on you're car available after you drive half way to where you're going to.

These reviewers need to stop noting PR BS in their reviews & actually test the features being touted. Does anyone think Cnet would be impressed with Panny's Infinite Blacks if they had to do what I just described?

The best way to communicate with panasonic is to call them instead of emailing them. I called last week about the infinite black and IR issue and told them I wanted a tech to look at my set. He will be here tomorrow morning.

I think HeckHeck has the answer above. When people start voting with their wallets corporate starts listening. I have to admit as I have stated before that I don't see this issue on my display. I can't say that I am not going to buy a 65VT25 because that seems to be what can meet my needs, but I will make sure to cite the rising black level issue as my reason for canceling my 65V10 order regardless.

that panasonic plasma tvs , start out life with , we,ll call it , black level A , and end up with , lets say black level D.....

that the newer sets will take a little longer to get to D....

so , what you initially see , is not what you get , thats my interpretation of it , and i do think its remarkable that they have said it ...

okay i call panasonic 3 times on diferent times girls answering the phone they dint know nothing about technical stuff they were lost on how to explain thins to me i ask for technician the 3 girls on deferent times said i will get a return call so that make me think that put in girls on the phone will lower the calls they are receiving in a day because no body want to talk to a girl with no
knowledge on how to resolve calls for technical issues.

Looks like Panasonic is singlehandedly killing the Plasma industry with this boneheaded black level move on their part. I will never buy another Panasonic plasma until this issue is confirmed to be fixed and eliminated, until then, I am going back to LCD, as much as I hate that idea. Not quite sure what I am going to get just yet....

Cnet is now running a disclaimer of sorts, referencing this thread, atop their 2009 Panasonic plasma reviews. If that carries over to 2010 reviews then that helps. But I believe real business pressure only comes from wider scope mainstream outlets. Got any friends in the news business?

Myself, I have no friends. Except my dog. But he died.

I would not say panasonic plasmas in general when the marjority probably will never have this issue. There will probably not be a fix since it does not happen to everyset and its probably very difficult to fix. If the solution was so concrete there would probably be a fix. There are too many curveballs with this issue.

Donny - I also have a Panasonic Plasma set in Florida, can you let me know what the tech says tomorrow when he visits your TV. I have the same IB issue, so I want to have a tech come and look at it, but wanted to see what yours says first.

What have other technicians been saying when they see this issue "in the field"? Do panel replacements just reset the issue, or does it fix it?

Thanks!

I received the following e-mail this morning. It is not exactly the response I had hoped for (an ETA for a fix).

I understand wanting to put pressure on panasonic for a fix, but I really don't get why people that aren't seeing a problem are contacting them.

Something came to my mind. I'm not an expert and this may be ridiculous but I'm gonna say it anyway. As you know it seems that this problem has been seen mostly in America.Is there any chance that 120V/60Hz in America may play any role in this issue?

Maybe I've missed some details, as this thread is very long, but it seems that this is a confirmed issue with all sets once they reach 500 hours. My set is way below that, so I'd LOVE for Panasonic to develop a fix before my set's voltage bumps up to compensate for panel degradation. I think you call that being proactive.

tell us something we didn't already know. sad part is my black levels look even worse then that pic. http://hd.engadget.com/2010/01/11/pa...-black-levels/

Even if they knew the fix today it would take a while for testing to be performed. We want them to get this right and we also don't want regressions. Myself, I am not expecting anything in the near future.

The response you got is actually seems positive to me. "So that a fix can be created" if correct information seems to imply Panasonic believes it is fixable and they plan to provide resolution. Because media outlets such as CNet are involved I imagine they'll be communicating to them ASAP what the roadmap is, i.e. damage control.

Here is a link to HTM's news release, on the black level issue. Seems to be downplaying the issue somewhat. Perhaps they are concerned with legal or advertising repercussions, or just want to be cautious.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/news/020810panasonic/

Well they appear to have gone as far as they could, since they are just reporting what they read about. They have no first hand knowledge, and have not talked to Panasonic. If they had taken the time to read what Orta had posted, they would have learned what model he measured, so apparently they were too lazy to even do that.

I do appreciate this ending comment from them:

"This incident highlights a problem for reviewers as well as manufacturers. Try as we do to deliver definitive reviews, we cannot monitor every product to the end of its design life—except, of course, for products we own—so we can provide only a general prediction of what will happen. Perhaps we should pay more attention to aging related issues."

Of course the problem, in this case, is not the normal aging issue, It is a case of marrying a raven haired beauty, and having her turn gray as a badger before the first wedding anniversary.

Ya but you can drink alot more beer to make her look better but I don't think even beer will make the sets look blacker unless of course you pass out!

All kidding aside I think these clowns that give raving reviews to a product in their hands for a day or so should seriously re-evaluate how they review things. They are encouraging jerry rigging of results as the manufacturers know they will not be heavily scrutinized.

Case in Point: Intel CPU's in reviews overclock like hell but rarely achieve those results in real life as they are cherry picked for review purposes. The reviewers should get a random one off the shelf like the rest of us have to.

I agree, the acknowledgment they sent is somewhat heartening. It also serves the purpose of creating a trail for me personally. If I have big problems down the line, I will reference my communication to them acknowledging the issue while my TV still had plenty of warranty coverage left. Either way, I'm looking into extending the warranty.

I have an extended warranty on mine from where I bought it & am relieved I have that now given the potential of this issue in 2-3 years say. The one thing that I think could be a problem is if Panny goofed as D-Nice suggests the rate of or final level of black change could be dramatic. Time will tell on that one.

for how long? 500 hours?