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Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 15

post #421 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post

I'm not really sure what you guys are getting heated about. Yes, if the black levels do in fact increase this is a very unfortunate thing, but some of you are acting like the black levels should be pitch black in a dark room. Even the almighty Kuros glow with all the lights off and no content on the screen.

no one will come here and complain about glowing blacks if they were seen since 1st hr of tv. But since the blacks were decent on the first 300, 500 and my case 1500 hr of course i complain because i don't get the same results. Dont come here and be the smart one!
post #422 of 11163
Orta's 130 Y value on the 0% pluge is all the proof that's needed.

That value is glowing.

I spose someone could fidget with all of the settings...
color temp, CATS, black level etc.

And re-test it.

What if black level is set to +1 or +2 instead of zero ?
(i forget the range that value takes... but I noticed jacking it up high
made 4% blacks become invisible. lol)
post #423 of 11163
Is his with a signal generator and the pattern, or with a blu-ray player? Has the player been checked if so? Is it the same across all HDMI inputs?
post #424 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orta View Post

This reset method was posted by Battousai way back in post #11 on page 1. It did nothing for me, a few of inflated screen grabs I've posted were taken after several attempts at this resets. Careful of default maxed out contrast values playing with your perception.

Orta,

I posted the procedure without comment. I have not performed it and do no intend to. It was posted only because people were confused about the steps.

I have no angst with my black levels. However, I came from a px60 then from a px75 then from a px80 to get to my X1. By comparison the X1 is orders of magnitude better than any of them.

There are other aspects of a TV besides black level.

Larry
post #425 of 11163
how many hr you got on your x1? do blacks stay in a decent range on the x1 model?
post #426 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by cristian_ro View Post

how many hr you got on your x1? do blacks stay in a decent range on the x1 model?


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=304

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=256

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=372

Larry
post #427 of 11163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Orta,

I posted the procedure without comment. I have not performed it and do no intend to. It was posted only because people were confused about the steps.

I have no problem with my black levels. However, I came from a px60 then from a px75 then from a px80 to get to my X1. By comparison the X1 is orders of magnitude better than any of them.

There are other aspects of a TV besides black level.

Larry

Sure, np. For newcomers in the back pages, I was just emphasizing that it wasn't a new development and re-sharing my experience that it doesn't seem to do anything. I'm pretty sure most of the affected following this thread have tried it, just wanted to make it clear it doesn't seem to be a "fix".
post #428 of 11163
Well, tech came out this morning. He came in talked to me about what the problem was, went into to the picture settings and messed around a little bit, then called panny, they told him to do a reset (the same one they had me do 4 times already), so he did, and he told them he couldn't tell any difference and that the color looked good. He got off the phone, then began to explain that this is how these sets are, over time the blacks get lighter, and that it was just the nature of the set, apperantly this was also panny's view on the matter, seeing as i believe this is what they instructed him to say while on the phone. So in the end nothing was really done, don't think anything will be done either, i even ask him to look at the new x1 i have for comparison but no need to i guess. Conclusion, i don't think that anyone with this problem will get an honest fix, but this is just speaking from my experience so far and my opinion............
post #429 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. grieves View Post

Is this issue bad enough for any of you to wish that you had purchased an alternate unit - say the S1 or another brand?

I have ordered a G10 and I am questioning my decision in light of this thread.

No response? Misery loves company?
post #430 of 11163
I did the reset with no results..my blacks remained glowing with the greyish hue. My sisters brand new 50S1 has the deep dark blacks that my 50G10 had when it was new 7 months ago...this is very noticeable with the naked eye as I've stated before. I still like my g10 and it still looks good watching hdtv and bd and games via the PS3, I like the fast responds time and motion handling capabilities of plasma, but I feel somewhat robbed because of the hoopla over the blacks that plasmas are supposed to have, which have deteriorated to a very subpar level that I would assume is effecting my overall color pallette to some degree or another.
post #431 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Orta,

I posted the procedure without comment. I have not performed it and do no intend to. It was posted only because people were confused about the steps.

I have no angst with my black levels. However, I came from a px60 then from a px75 then from a px80 to get to my X1. By comparison the X1 is orders of magnitude better than any of them.

There are other aspects of a TV besides black level.

Larry

You do realize though that a black level that raises takes with it the inherent contrast advantage of a Panny over a Sammy.
That is a HUGE thing!
post #432 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by E-A-G-L-E-S View Post

You do realize though that a black level that raises takes with it the inherent contrast advantage of a Panny over a Sammy.
That is a HUGE thing!

It's only as huge as you believe it is. It's like religion.

Larry
post #433 of 11163
Does every single current model have this problem?
post #434 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigmoviefan View Post

Does every single current model have this problem?

I don't have it yet assuming it gets doubled after a while. Let me put this way. Anyone who has not visited this thread does not have the problem will never have this problem
post #435 of 11163
Having a tech coming friday. They didnt even look to my set and said by phone that they will change a board on it..... I hope it will solve the problem.... They look like they know what the problem is...
post #436 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by battousai147 View Post

Well, tech came out this morning. He came in talked to me about what the problem was, went into to the picture settings and messed around a little bit, then called panny, they told him to do a reset (the same one they had me do 4 times already), so he did, and he told them he couldn't tell any difference and that the color looked good. He got off the phone, then began to explain that this is how these sets are, over time the blacks get lighter, and that it was just the nature of the set, apperantly this was also panny's view on the matter, seeing as i believe this is what they instructed him to say while on the phone. So in the end nothing was really done, don't think anything will be done either, i even ask him to look at the new x1 i have for comparison but no need to i guess. Conclusion, i don't think that anyone with this problem will get an honest fix, but this is just speaking from my experience so far and my opinion............

i hear you... tech told me the same thing , even he put my tv in vivid mode to show me the better blacks. Panasonic trains them well... " it looks good to me and i am a tech for 30 years.... so if i say so ..."
post #437 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigmoviefan View Post

Does every single current model have this problem?

Who can tell? It hasn't yet been shown conclusively, i.e.,quantitatively, that it effects any model.

[[ Okay, guys, I just put on my crash helmet so I'm ready for it. ]]

Larry
post #438 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Who can tell? It hasn't yet been shown conclusively, i.e.,quantitatively, that it effects any model.

[[ Okay, guys, I just put on my crash helmet so I'm ready for it. ]]

Larry

Orta is referring to an old thread

Here is this

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?t=1016048I

I don't see many complaints here either. May be it is an isolated case or few lemons.
post #439 of 11163
vkarthik,

That thread is so old that I had forgotten it. My px75u and my px80u both were in the same ballpark as the readings mentioned there.

For me, any black level lower than my px75u is fine. BTW, for some base of reference, the black level on my px60u was about 0.055 ftL. My X1 is about 0.019. It's all relative.

Oh, yes. Has anyone been to a movie theater lately and seen how really bad the blacks are? And has anyone noticed that film has higher resolution than the highest res consumer HDTV?

Larry
post #440 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

vkarthik,

That thread is so old that I had forgotten it. My px75u and my px80u both were in the same ballpark as the readings mentioned there.

For me, any black level lower than my px75u is fine. BTW, for some base of reference, the black level on my px60u was about 0.055 ftL. My X1 is about 0.019. It's all relative.

Oh, yes. Has anyone been to a movie theater lately and seen how really bad the blacks are? And has anyone noticed that film has higher resolution than the highest res consumer HDTV?

Larry

Exactly It is all relative. I replaced my 10 year old Panasonic Flat screen CRT with a G10. Obviously i am going to be satisfied

If only i knew this i would have bought a theater instead of G10. hehe.
post #441 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

It's only as huge as you believe it is. It's like religion.

Larry

This is something scientific based, so a bad comparison.
post #442 of 11163
Oh, come on now. If you've been following this thread closely, you would know that I, of all people, understand the difference between science and speculation. Cheeze!

Larry
post #443 of 11163
I really would like to know if this happens across all the Panasonic models, since I am interested in the G15.
post #444 of 11163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. grieves View Post

Is this issue bad enough for any of you to wish that you had purchased an alternate unit - say the S1 or another brand?

I have ordered a G10 and I am questioning my decision in light of this thread.

No response? Misery loves company?

I use the display for games, so the ~20ms of input lag, in every mode, with no concessions in PQ, makes the Panasonic a no brainer. To put it into perspective, that is 2-4x faster than any Samsung or Pioneer ("Game Modes" included). If I didn't play games, without hesitation, I would have gone with a Kuro 500M for a few hundred more. After that, I would have went with the B650 PDP. By most accounts, the B650 has superior color accuracy and gamma (to the Panny's), while the black levels and contrast are about the same as the post-inflation NeoPDP's. Only reason not to go with the Samsung is input lag and build quality concerns (buzz, reliablity, etc...). If the Panasonic maintained its contrast over time, I would go with it over the B650....but it doesn't.
post #445 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orta View Post

By most accounts, the B650 has superior color accuracy and gamma (to the Panny's), while the black levels and contrast are about the same as the post-inflation NeoPDP's..

Even with THX certification? I read Gamma accuracy is extremely good for G10.
If their firmware fix is going to take care it you will have everything accurate.

These are the comments about G10 in CNET review

"....highly-accurate primary colors and grayscale in THX mode; great color saturation; uses ...."

....
By engaging THX picture mode, the G10's color accuracy, shadow detail, and numerous other picture characteristics improve in most aspects without you having to make a bunch of adjustments. We'll go into the improvements below, but suffice it to say that THX comes as close to a "one-step calibration" as any such mode we've seen, with the possible exception of Pure on Pioneer's late, lamented Elite Kuro displays. ...


This color accuracy may be improved by proper calibration can't we?
post #446 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orta View Post

I use the display for games, so the ~20ms of input lag, in every mode, with no concessions in PQ, makes the Panasonic a no brainer. To put it into perspective, that is 2-4x faster than any Samsung or Pioneer. If I didn't play games, without hesitation, I would have gone with a Kuro 500M for a few hundred more. After that, I would have went with the B650 PDP. By most accounts, the B650 has superior color accuracy and gamma (to the Panny's), while the black levels and contrast are about the same as the post-inflation NeoPDP's. Only reason not to go with the Samsung is input lag and build quality concerns (buzz, reliablity, etc...). If the Panasonic maintained its contrast over time, I would go with it over the B650....but it doesn't.

The main thing that keeps me from getting a Samsung Plasma is their higher tendency to get Image Retention, this is my main reason for going Panasonic, as for blacks, they are pretty even before the drop thanks to the Sammy's better AR filter preserving blacks in bright rooms, and after the increase they are fairly even in a dark room too. Input lag is also a concern with Samsung Plasma sets this year (new processor causes more lag) and the poor build quality that I have seen on all 4 Samsung HDTVs that I had doesn't help either. (I really wanted the b850 to be a winner, and I would have one if not for these issues)
post #447 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Oh, come on now. If you've been following this thread closely, you would know that I, of all people, understand the difference between science and speculation. Cheeze!

Larry

I knew that before this thread, just responding to your comment not knowing if it was tongue in cheek.
post #448 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

vkarthik,

That thread is so old that I had forgotten it. My px75u and my px80u both were in the same ballpark as the readings mentioned there.

For me, any black level lower than my px75u is fine. BTW, for some base of reference, the black level on my px60u was about 0.055 ftL. My X1 is about 0.019. It's all relative.

Oh, yes. Has anyone been to a movie theater lately and seen how really bad the blacks are? And has anyone noticed that film has higher resolution than the highest res consumer HDTV?

Larry

Depends on the theatre of course. We have a brand new, "state of the art" theatre here, and the blacks are insane.
post #449 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomGreen321 View Post

Depends on the theatre of course. We have a brand new, "state of the art" theatre here, and the blacks are insane.

Are we talking theater melting blacks?
post #450 of 11163
Different shads of black you can see. Which one is closer to your TV's black level

http://www.w3schools.com/Html/html_colors.asp
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