or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Plasma Flat Panel Displays › Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 165

post #4921 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

44.08 ftL or 150.771 cd/m^2

EDIT: You want to see the calibration report?

Larry

Why not?

You are saying that the screen can achieve 44 FL with the entire screen white and not a white window pattern?

- Rich
post #4922 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
Why not?

You are saying that the screen can achieve 44 FL with the entire screen white and not a white window pattern?

- Rich
Of course not! Can your Pio do that?

Larry

 

46S1.zip 0.8876953125k . file
post #4923 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiotitis View Post

Did you by any chance update to firmware 1.28. If yes, Vieracast/SD card (see THX decoding thread for more info). I ask, because the MLL rise is too early. Did you change any settings after the earlier calibration ?

Also, note that the panel is still breaking in during the first 200-500 hrs approx. So "maybe" don't panic just yet. I hope for you that the MLL drops lower. Did you do a break-in ? If no, then perhaps a remeasure after approx 400 hrs would be good to know.

Thanks for the optimistic take on this, but I do not hold out any hope that this will adjust itself back to the originally measured levels any time soon. Maybe at 100,000 hours when it reaches its brightness half-life! Lovely.

No firmware update performed.

No settings were changed for the last 100 hours or so.

What I just experienced is quantifiably, undoubtably the black level doubling glitch that others have described.

Is there any light-metered proof of this bug hitting anyone at less than the 146 hour point? Is this the earliest anyone has been quantifiably affected by this? 146 HOURS! RIDICULOUS!
post #4924 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

I think that we've found a cause of the problem -- watching O'Reily.

I am kidding.

Larry

I take it you're not a fan of Bill?
post #4925 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiotitis View Post

I ask, because the MLL rise is too early.

Audiotits: when you say that "the MLL rise is too early", what information are you basing that on? Is there an "official" time that this bug kicks in? Just curious. It seems to me that no one knows exactly what combination of factors (on-hours, temperature, solar flares) triggers this premature increase in drive voltage.

With just 146 hours on my set, do I have a better case of getting Panasonic's attention? Would they actually humor me by sending a tech to look at my set? I suspect not, but I will be calling them this week to file a complaint.
post #4926 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by anthrojohn View Post

Audiotits: when you say that "the MLL rise is too early", what information are you basing that on? Is there an "official" time that this bug kicks in? Just curious. It seems to me that no one knows exactly what combination of factors (on-hours, temperature, solar flares) triggers this premature increase in drive voltage.

With just 146 hours on my set, do I have a better case of getting Panasonic's attention? Would they actually humor me by sending a tech to look at my set? I suspect not, but I will be calling them this week to file a complaint.

Complaint ? ... if this continues it's going to be bigger than that. They knew about it, it involves a major selling point, the pic is still supposed to be excellent but yet the '10's have been changed ? Are you kidding me ? Search The Garden City Group in Melville, NY. Let's hope Panasonic shows integrity and fixes it.
post #4927 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Of course not! Can your Pio do that?

Larry

Nope. None of my Plasmas can do it (Panasonic 657UY, Panasonic 509UK, Pioneer 500M, Pioneer 600M).

However, I was hoping for an option in newer plasma to reduce the ABL effect to something like 80%. The degree to which a screen reduces brightness as the percentage of the screen goes white is an artifact that I would like reduced. For example, if a 10% window is at 44 FL and full white is 30 FL this does cause problems on the showroom floor, not just in my house

It is possible to achieve a reduced ABL effect as the displays become more efficient.

- Rich
post #4928 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avgguy View Post

Complaint ? ... if this continues it's going to be bigger than that. They knew about it, it involves a major selling point, the pic is still supposed to be excellent but yet the '10's have been changed ? Are you kidding me ? Search The Garden City Group in Melville, NY. Let's hope Panasonic shows integrity and fixes it.

"Complaint" was just a euphemism in this case. While trying to maintain my composure, I will demand: 1) a FIX or 2) a refund.

Not sure where that will get me, but it's a start.

And yes, I DO hope that Panasonic does the right thing and responds SENSIBLY AND ETHICALLY to the increasing number of dissatisfied and outright angry customers.

We want a fix and we want it now!
post #4929 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by anthrojohn View Post

Audiotits: when you say that "the MLL rise is too early", what information are you basing that on? Is there an "official" time that this bug kicks in? Just curious. It seems to me that no one knows exactly what combination of factors (on-hours, temperature, solar flares) triggers this premature increase in drive voltage.

With just 146 hours on my set, do I have a better case of getting Panasonic's attention? Would they actually humor me by sending a tech to look at my set? I suspect not, but I will be calling them this week to file a complaint
.

From what I've read on this thread and others. Someone can call me wrong on this. I don't believe anyone knows when it actually kicks in. Panasonic will of course not reveal this. No company would. I'd be interested in hearing your readings after 400+hrs. Things are still settling in in the initial aging of the panel. Did you break-in your panel ?

If you mention a drop in black level to a CSR, expect the (tel) call to drop. The black level VALUE is not advertised. Neither did they say it would drop, though it is based on implicit trust. This is where they will suffer if they fail to renew trust in their future customers.
They are not entertaining such support calls.

Side note on IB:
Even though IB is useless because its only in Vivid, its the one thing all people can OBJECTIVELY verify without the need for a meter. So for all the folks who don't measure with meters and say their blacks are fine, this is one test for which we can ALL measure accurately even without a meter. Dynamic contrast is an advertised feature and we can complain IN LARGE NUMBERS that it does not work IN ADDITION to the black levels rising. Panasonic cannot downplay why their dynamic contrast does not work. Imagine if 80% said their dynamic contrast was not working (properly). Surely they won't say its a BS feature (since its in Vivid). Now if it worked at a pixel level, this would crush the Locally dimmed LCD's. I wish they would focus on this rather than all the gimmicks and 3D stuff.

I think it would be nice if there was a NEW THREAD (if its not there) that polled people for IB.

IB works dynamically in real time consistently (ideal) *
IB works dynamically but only sometimes *
IB only works on an input that is inactive consistently
IB only works on an input that is inactive sometimes
IB does not work at all



* with a black transition frame that may appear between frames. Like the occasional case when you watch a TV pgm and it goes to black just before an ad occurs. Or to simulate it, use a slideshow with a black frame slide and check if the panel turns off when the black slide plays. If your set does not advertise IB, then one should not take the poll.
post #4930 of 11163
Model: TC-P65V10
Build Date: OCT 2009
Original Firmware: 1.24
Updated w/ VieraCast: 1.28
Updated THX via SD card: 1.28 (slight improvement, LSI did not change)

i1 Pro Meter - will post readings with i1 LT soon.

300 Hours
.009 ftL

485 Hours
.012 ftL

825 Hours
.016 ftL
post #4931 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Nope. None of my Plasmas can do it (Panasonic 657UY, Panasonic 509UK, Pioneer 500M, Pioneer 600M).

However, I was hoping for an option in newer plasma to reduce the ABL effect to something like 80%. The degree to which a screen reduces brightness as the percentage of the screen goes white is an artifact that I would like reduced. For example, if a 10% window is at 44 FL and full white is 30 FL this does cause problems on the showroom floor, not just in my house

It is possible to achieve a reduced ABL effect as the displays become more efficient.

- Rich

Rich,

Well, I don't watch TV on a showroom floor -- except to get fodder for jokes. Right, Waxy?

Since -- for a 10% area window -- my sets are adjusted for a maximum luminance of under 25 ftL, my limiter doesen't kick in. And because of that, ABL is of no significance to me.

That's quite a collection of TVs you have -- worth more than the GDP of many countries.


Enough OT talk for me.

Larry
post #4932 of 11163
I know that some gave recommendations here, but this thread moves so fast and I'm apparently awful at using the search function. Can someone make a recommendation on a "bang for the buck" light meter? (i.e. cheap and reliable) Oh, and ease of use probably wouldn't be such a terrible thing for a newbie like myself either.

I've been approved for an exchange through my warranty company and will most likely be getting a 13g Panasonic. Pioneer will not be an available option. I'm considering a 2010 Samsung plasma after all this black level nonsense, but the past generations' inability to handle IR as well as the Panasonics scares me a bit. I've also considered the LG LH90, but LCD technology's comparably inferior motion handling negates a lot of what the television does right. If I do get another Panasonic, I'd like to be able to monitor the MLL over time. The fact that the protection plan company is stepping up to make things right reinspired that fuzzy peace of mind feeling... and that's the reason I buy these things in the first place. Technician ignorance (not stated as a criticism of him, mind you) and miscommunication between the contracted service center and claims department proved to be the hurdles in this process. Having hard data to reference would only help my case should I experience a similar problem in the future and, admittedly, I relish the opportunity to educate myself on a new "toy."

Should I even be considering a Panasonic after this fiasco? "Fool me once..." Also, I'm open to suggestions if anyone has any.

For the record, my 50G10 as well as the protection plan was purchased at Best Buy.
post #4933 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Nope. None of my Plasmas can do it (Panasonic 657UY, Panasonic 509UK, Pioneer 500M, Pioneer 600M).

However, I was hoping for an option in newer plasma to reduce the ABL effect to something like 80%. The degree to which a screen reduces brightness as the percentage of the screen goes white is an artifact that I would like reduced. For example, if a 10% window is at 44 FL and full white is 30 FL this does cause problems on the showroom floor, not just in my house

It is possible to achieve a reduced ABL effect as the displays become more efficient.

- Rich

100% full white on a TC-P50S2 in Custom mode yeilds a 21.4fL reading. 100% windowed pattern yields 80fL.
post #4934 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

100% full white on a TC-P50S2 in Custom mode yeilds a 21.4fL reading. 100% windowed pattern yields 80fL.


D-Nice,

And of course you are going to take other MLL readings every 24 hours for us to see what happens to your initial 0.0065 ftL, right?

Larry
post #4935 of 11163
I own a 42G10 and have had a very signifigant rise in black level twice. The first time, Panasonic sent out a local tech, who replaced the A-board. That put the black level back to what seemed to me to be its original level, but only for a couple weeks. Then it rose again. I don't have a light meter but it's been very apparent to the naked eye both times.
I called Panasonic again and was told by two different concierges that the black level and image retention issues are not covered under warranty. I told them that I thought that was peculiar since Panasonic paid to have my A-board replaced to fix my black level two months ago. I was told that since it's been discovered recently that rising black levels are "normal" Panasonic would not pay have a tech come out again. I persisted, saying that my rise is excessive, that the official Panasonic statement on the topic doesn't make sense to me, and that I really need Panasonic to send someone to my house with a light meter at the very least. They told me that I will be receiving two calls, one from a tech and one from a manager. My goal at this point is to either get a replacement panel, a replacement G10, or better yet, a 2010 model on Panasonic's dime. Maybe none of these options will turn out to be better than what I've got, but I'm becoming pretty determined. I'm really pushing them (though in a polite way) and not just accepting their repeated denials.
On a humorous sidenote, I could tell that both concierges didn't understand the black level statement at all. Who could? All they could do was keep reading it to me over and over again. One of them laughed when I said that 3 years is a long time to reach "excellent picture quality", and when I asked if "stabilize" meant that the black level would return to its like-new value, he just said "all I know is that it will have excellent picture quality". OK then.
post #4936 of 11163
does all this have anything to do with black level rise/voltage increase maybe? read on )i have recently noticed this on my plasma a panasonic tc-p42s1. at first i would only see it on the top 2 inch of the screen going horizontal and on a white screen or mostly white, now i can see it on more then half the screen. it also makes a slight change from bright white to a darker white which is really annoying. i contacted panasonic about this because it just seem to start happening and they are sending a tech out this week. i also have the black level rise and my ir seems to be getting worse. the first few months i had my plasma they had to replace my A-board as the tv turned off by itself and would not power back on. i personally think this all has to do to the increase of voltage that panasonic has stated happens as the panel ages. i say this because the first few hundred hours the pic was fantastic,black were black and i saw no problems in the whites flickering or anything else. now since the a-board replaced and a few months has past the black levels have risen, IR has gotten worse and now the whites seems to flicker and surge from bright white to a darker white and then normal over and over. i really think this all ties into the voltage increase and it happening over a very short time. i am probably wrong but it all seems fishy this all happens after the black level rise/voltage increase. anyone have any thoughts on this. it's very annoying and it seems to get worse the longer the plasma is on. hopefully the tech can figure out whats going on when he takes a look at it this week and i will post back.
post #4937 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiotitis View Post

I'd be interested in hearing your readings after 400+hrs. Things are still settling in in the initial aging of the panel. Did you break-in your panel ?

I did break in my set, using slides for the first 85 hours or so, so I would say that it has been aged evenly. And at 145 hours, I would think that I am past the point of expecting any DRAMATIC, phosphor-aging-based shifts in brightness / black levels to occur. I suspect at 400 hours, my black level will still be reading around .023 ftL, if not higher (if Panasonic has any more "surprises" programmed into my TV). At any rate, there is no way it is going to lose half its brightness by then, returning me to .012 ftL. More realistically, I could see that finally happening at the 100,000 hour point!

I will submit readings every 100 hours or so, just to keep everyone up-to-speed, and just in case there is good news to share.

My TV was unfortunately hit by the bug really early into its life, there is no arguing against this. I objectively measured the doubled blacks with a light meter before and after the rise, this struck me some time around the 145 hour point, and it occurred within a span of a few hours (if not instantly).

Man, I'm in a bad mood over this. Sorry to dwell on this, but it's hard to shake once you see "the change" in person.
post #4938 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

100% full white on a TC-P50S2 in Custom mode yeilds a 21.4fL reading. 100% windowed pattern yields 80fL.

Good information. Thanks.

- Rich
post #4939 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky Devil View Post

I've attaced images of the 42" G10 in the dark and with some room lighting. There is no input to the television. Mine is less than 3 months old. Is this normal or are these the poor black levels that everyone is talking about?

Sorry but that cant be so bright. You take a foto with ISO800. Take a foto with ISO100...thats looks more realistic than that.
post #4940 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlivesay View Post

I called Panasonic again and was told by two different concierges that the black level and image retention issues are not covered under warranty. I told them that I thought that was peculiar since Panasonic paid to have my A-board replaced to fix my black level two months ago. I was told that since it's been discovered recently that rising black levels are "normal" Panasonic would not pay have a tech come out again. I persisted, saying that my rise is excessive, that the official Panasonic statement on the topic doesn't make sense to me, and that I really need Panasonic to send someone to my house with a light meter at the very least. They told me that I will be receiving two calls, one from a tech and one from a manager. My goal at this point is to either get a replacement panel, a replacement G10, or better yet, a 2010 model on Panasonic's dime. Maybe none of these options will turn out to be better than what I've got, but I'm becoming pretty determined. I'm really pushing them (though in a polite way) and not just accepting their repeated denials.
then.

Mate im going to try and do the same thing, im in Australia and Panasonic Aust does not know about the black problem yet so im hoping i can keep getting techs out until the 2010 models are out and demand they replace my tv with a new one. Either way i don't think i will be buying a Panasonic product again and i will not be spreading the good word about Panasonic like i used too.

Panasonic have to be silly to not realize that word of mouth by us enthusiast's is the reason they were selling so many tv's.
post #4941 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmoh00 View Post

Not true at all. If 20 or even 10 sets all show, or not show, the black problem, it tells us a lot. The probability of all 20 sets being outlier data points is very small. Right now we do need more data across higher on-time hours especially for 58/65" panels.

No, not on enthusiast forums like this. Data will be skewed a bit; especially in this thread. 20 people having bad sets tells you nothing on a forum like this. It's such a small sample.

Although it does answer one question. yes, there a production flaw with 2009 Panasonic panels. It doesn't tell you if it's limited to a model #, build date, serial # series, specific revision... Without all of that data you can't say all of the sets are bad.

I work in Q&A for a living... we engineer and produce microchips. So some of this stuff is just run of the mill for me.

Panasonic will have the best idea of the actual problem rate, as people call in they will ask for all of the information I posted. You can bet someone at Panasonic will be generating a report from the call in data.

Even if 100 people are all posting they have issues in this thread it's a VERY tiny number when compared to the entire gamut of Panasonic plasma's sold.

Just taking a wild guess here... 20 sets? Out of 70-80k sold? (I'm totally guessing; I don't know Panasonic's production numbers) That .025%. That's totally within an acceptable failure rate for most companies. Even if 1000 people all reported black level rises on here it'd only be 1.4%. Since we don't know production numbers these numbers I just said are worthless. But I think you get the idea.

Again, with the small sample size that can be collected on an enthusiast site like this it's detrimental to not know Model #, Serial #, Manufacturing Date#, Hours and then yes or no to experiencing the black level rise (before and after measurements would be nice to verify the problem isn't in their head). Without this information you're just blindly guessing...
post #4942 of 11163
The problem is much larger for panasonic, even if the percentage of sets with problems is very small. The problem is that they are taking a huge hit to their reputation, both for the nature of the problem (which is a critical one to the PDP product) and their responses to it. When people begin to lose confidence in the product and company in general, especially on forums like this that reach the most enthusiastic part of their market, they have a serious problem.
post #4943 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcaillo View Post

The problem is much larger for panasonic, even if the percentage of sets with problems is very small. The problem is that they are taking a huge hit to their reputation, both for the nature of the problem (which is a critical one to the PDP product) and their responses to it. When people begin to lose confidence in the product and company in general, especially on forums like this that reach the most enthusiastic part of their market, they have a serious problem.

I agree; I was thinking the same thing when I was typing my other response.

All statistics aside... Without some insider information I can't comprehend Panasonic's response thus far.

Panasonic has already made a statement...

1. The 2009's plasmas have an issue the consumers see as a flaw that we Panasonic consider within normal working specifications
2. We're not going to fix it if you experience it

Nope, I wouldn't be buying A 2009 panel either. I mean who would in their right mind knowing this information?

I see it as Russian roulette with your $$ on a 2009 Panasonic plasma TV that works correctly.

What's really is annoying me from a Q&A perspective is if this was "normal" expected behavior ALL of the 2009 Plasma sets would be experiencing it in a similar fashion. They're not.
post #4944 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post

Before any hard statistics are in with a large sample don't read into all of this so heavily. Without the statistics you can't judge how bad the problem is here.

It's just that simple.

This thread tends to border on the doom and gloom. And it's human nature unfortunately to jump on the hate bandwagon when things go wrong. That is a lot of what your reading in here.

There is a manufacturing defect in the 2009 Panasonic's. Period.

Until someone collects a large group of stats (1000+) you really won't know how wide spread the issue is.

Wait for the statistics if you need a comfort level; if you can't stomach that return your set. The reality is NO ONE on here (besides a Panasonic employee who's lurking) can tell you one way or another until those results have been collected.

So if your concerned wait until someone collects 500-1000 data points of "model #/serial #/Build date/hours on set/black level". In my opinion mathematically speaking, without all of those data points and a good number of samples (500-1000) it's impossible to get any comfort level purchasing a 2009 Panasonic. The few charts I've seen in this thread are not detailed enough to make a decision on anything.

Or if your patient wait for the 2010 Plasma's which will be out soon. I find it amazing how some people can't wait a few months for a TV release. But that's an entirely different problem that should be discussed on a MD forum

Panasonic has had rising blacks for at least 3 years and has already stated that all of the 2010 models will have blacks that get lighter over time, you can be in denial about that if you want, but it is the truth, this was purposeful and by design. The sad thing is, 95% of people buying these will never notice it, so there is no way that any real data will come from this problem. (And Panasonic will continue to say that this is 100% normal and that there is no defect, because they built them to do this)

Sure voltage levels need to be adjusted, but not to the point that the blacks rise, only Panasonic has this problem in the plasma field, if it was a defect, they would have done something about it years ago, it would have been fixed before their 1080p models ever hit back in 07, but it wasn't, care to explain that?
post #4945 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Panasonic has had rising blacks for at least 3 years and has already stated that all of the 2010 models will have blacks that get lighter over time, you can be in denial about that if you want, but it is the truth, this was purposeful and by design. The sad thing is, 95% of people buying these will never notice it, so there is no way that any real data will come from this problem. (And Panasonic will continue to say that this is 100% normal and that there is no defect, because they built them to do this)

Sure voltage levels need to be adjusted, but not to the point that the blacks rise, only Panasonic has this problem in the plasma field, if it was a defect, they would have done something about it years ago, it would have been fixed before their 1080p models ever hit back in 07, but it wasn't, care to explain that?

I have a hard time believing that this forum full of (no offense) anal videophiles missed the black level rise "feature" for 3 model years 2007-2009. And have now just discovered and brought this to the public light? Care to explain that? While this is a large forum, these TVs have been scrutinized by many forums and many calibrators for awhile now.

Am I missing some other thread on the issue from the past? Calibrator article? Good calibrators know what the black level should be; it wouldn't take one long to realize every 1+ year old Panasonic they've calibrated from 2007-2009 had horrible black levels right?

And why doesn't every set exhibit the problem?
post #4946 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

100% full white on a TC-P50S2 in Custom mode yeilds a 21.4fL reading. 100% windowed pattern yields 80fL.

Yikes.
It is as it was before or have the greenies screwed it up?

- Rich
post #4947 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post

I have a hard time believing that this forum full of (no offense) anal videophiles missed the black level rise "feature" for 3 model years 2007-2009. And have now just discovered and brought this to the public light? Care to explain that? While this is a large forum, these TVs have been scrutinized by many forums and many calibrators for awhile now.

Am I missing some other thread on the issue from the past? Calibrator article? Good calibrators know what the black level should be; it wouldn't take one long to realize every 1+ year old Panasonic they've calibrated from 2007-2009 had horrible black levels right?

Any why doesn't every set exhibit the problem?

Tom Huffman noticed it in 2008, and everybody thought that he had a dud. And I seriously doubt that my 42px75 is measuring the .012 that it should. (it glows just as bright as a 54V10 that had the doubling over night) Remember, Panasonic said that when the black level rise works as it should, then nobody should be able to notice it. The few units with sudden jumps were what brought this into the light. This has been brought up in the past, but nobody took it seriously until this thread.
post #4948 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Tom Huffman noticed it in 2008, and everybody thought that he had a dud. And I seriously doubt that my 42px75 is measuring the .012 that it should. (it glows just as bright as a 54V10 that had the doubling over night) Remember, Panasonic said that when the black level rise works as it should, then nobody should be able to notice it. The few units with sudden jumps were what brought this into the light. This has been brought up in the past, but nobody took it seriously until this thread.

Seems like a small sample your talking about.

Professional calibrators (Tom for example) who do this for a living would have seen this issue a long time ago presented in a lot of the sets they calibrate; it would have stood out glaring it's ugly face and there would be articles about it.

This isn't something a professional calibrators would have missed or overlooked if it showed up on a lot of sets. Don't you agree? You said 2007-2009 that's a long time and a lot of calibrated TVs.
post #4949 of 11163
I think in most instances, the calibrators are working with sets that are new-200 hours old. I would highly doubt that they would often encounter sets that are already post 2000 hours or so where the problem would be evident.
post #4950 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimasterchad View Post

I think in most instances, the calibrators are working with sets that are new-200 hours old. I would highly doubt that they would often encounter sets that are already post 2000 hours or so where the problem would be evident.

Seems in the 2009 panels the issue starts around 600-1000 hours. And ya most calibrations are on new sets. But if PENDRAG0ON is correct all of the sets that did have 600-1000+ hours on them should have showed the rise.

I'm quite sure a number of calibrations were done on sets already broken in past 600 hours. Enough of them to see a pattern of black level rise if one existed from PENDRAG0ON's claimed 2007-2009 anyway. The change is significant enough where it should have raised an eyebrow to a professional; especially if it repeated.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Plasma Flat Panel Displays
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Plasma Flat Panel Displays › Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight?