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Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 18

post #511 of 11162
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmichael View Post

...and you get what you pay for. Enjoy.

A satisfied product is what i got. There is a good chance you got a lemon. it happens.
post #512 of 11162
vkarthik,

Don't feed the trolls. They thrive on attention. It is a known fact that they have an IQ less than than or equal to their age.

Larry
post #513 of 11162
Does this curious increase in MLL affect other performance parameters, such as presence/absence of black/white crush? I tend to watch in a dimly lit room, and some increase in MLL may not be critical in actual program material, assuming other performance measures are not affected.

Wes
post #514 of 11162
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmichael View Post

Once you have a Kuro set up right, Blacks are CRT quality and I have over 1000 hours. No glow in the dark crackerjack surprise.

Please, you want to compare a Panny to a Kuro, come over to my home, I'll set up the G10 next to the KRP-500m and we'll have a good laugh (at the G10).

I'll laugh at the 500m for sounding like a bee hive.

(I voluntarily returned a 5020 for a 42G10, and am quite pleased.)

Also, I think most people in this thread are seeing things. We need more hard evidence specifically from people who have not been in the service menu at all.
post #515 of 11162
I have over 1000 hours on my G10 and my blacks still look the same as they always did.

I have offset my service menu settings but did not use break in slides. I actually used the OP Orta's settings and I think it looks great.

If you want my opinion, this might be a case of one G10 having a defect and other paranoid G10 owners reading this thread and believing they have the issue as well when they really dont. A form of placebo effect I guess.
post #516 of 11162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meteor|WAR View Post

If you want my opinion, this might be a case of one G10 having a defect and other paranoid G10 owners reading this thread and believing they have the issue as well when they really dont. A form of placebo effect I guess.

Nah, the blacks on my set are definitely light gray, no question. It no longer has the nice inky blacks.
post #517 of 11162
Quote:
Originally Posted by iVersatile View Post

Nah, the blacks on my set are definitely light gray, no question. It no longer has the nice inky blacks.

And you can definitely remember the black level becoming brighter at one specific time? How can you prove this is not just your imagination or influence from reading this thread?
post #518 of 11162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meteor|WAR View Post

And you can definitely remember the black level becoming brighter at one specific time? How can you prove this is not just your imagination or influence from reading this thread?

Because i didn't read this thread until it actually happened. And yes, the jump was like night and day. One day they were black, the next time i turned it on they were light gray.

Believe me i wish it were my imagination than maybe i could convince myself not to worry about it but the change was drastic, the black levels didn't gradually get lighter over time, it happened over night. I came from LCD sets so lighter black levels do not bother me. However, i am pretty sure that this black level elevation does indeed have some negative impact on the overall picture quality in some way or form.
post #519 of 11162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meteor|WAR View Post

I have over 1000 hours on my G10 and my blacks still look the same as they always did.

I have offset my service menu settings but did not use break in slides. I actually used the OP Orta's settings and I think it looks great.

If you want my opinion, this might be a case of one G10 having a defect and other paranoid G10 owners reading this thread and believing they have the issue as well when they really dont. A form of placebo effect I guess.

Couldn't have said better. I remember atleast 3 guys complaining about audio/video out of sync in a samsung unit while playing Blu Ray. You wouldn't generalize it.
post #520 of 11162
Quote:
Originally Posted by wsokolosky View Post

Does this curious increase in MLL affect other performance parameters, such as presence/absence of black/white crush? I tend to watch in a dimly lit room, and some increase in MLL may not be critical in actual program material, assuming other performance measures are not affected.

Wes

I would have to say yes to this...since my G10's blacks went south, I'm getting a black crush on PS3 games....it's like the gamma is cranked way down and dark areas are poorly lit and I have to crank the brightness and contrast up in the game settings....I directly compared a brand new S1, side by side with my 8 month old G10, both 50"ers, and the new S1 was infinitely darker than my older G10 by vast orders of magnitude....
post #521 of 11162
junk ... mine the same! HD movies look so bad in dark scenes, its like blacks are blending ...no detail. Its good only for sports because there is no blacks. Panasonic is tricking people with their 500 hr tvs .
post #522 of 11162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meteor|WAR View Post

I have over 1000 hours on my G10 and my blacks still look the same as they always did.

I have offset my service menu settings but did not use break in slides. I actually used the OP Orta's settings and I think it looks great.

If you want my opinion, this might be a case of one G10 having a defect and other paranoid G10 owners reading this thread and believing they have the issue as well when they really dont. A form of placebo effect I guess.

lol... don't come back in 500 hr and cry about your blacks )
post #523 of 11162
Quote:
Originally Posted by cristian_ro View Post

junk ... mine the same! HD movies look so bad in dark scenes, its like blacks are blending ...no detail. Its good only for sports because there is no blacks. Panasonic is tricking people with their 500 hr tvs .

It sounds like you have some other serious problems with your TV. I would have it repaired.

I wonder why you think Panasonic is purposely planting time bombs in their products? After all, Panasonic is now making neo panels for Pioneer who is stopping manufacturing plasmas. That reduces the competition. Why would Panasonic purposely now give the other makers a leg-up? it makes no sense.

Larry
post #524 of 11162
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

It sounds like you have some other serious problems with your TV. I would have it repaired.

I wonder why you think Panasonic is purposely planting time bombs in their products? After all, Panasonic is now making neo panels for Pioneer who is stopping manufacturing plasmas. That reduces the competition. Why would Panasonic purposely now give the other makers a leg-up? it makes no sense.

Larry

repaired by who??? panasonic said my tv is fine. By the techs who put my tv in vivid mode to show me deeper blacks?
post #525 of 11162
Then get a different brand TV.

Larry
post #526 of 11162
Quote:
Originally Posted by cristian_ro View Post

repaired by who??? panasonic said my tv is fine. By the techs who put my tv in vivid mode to show me deeper blacks?

Yeah this is why i haven't contacted them again about it. I'm still trying to figure out if i can live with the grayish blacks or not.
post #527 of 11162
Quote:
Originally Posted by iVersatile View Post

Because i didn't read this thread until it actually happened. And yes, the jump was like night and day. One day they were black, the next time i turned it on they were light gray.

Believe me i wish it were my imagination than maybe i could convince myself not to worry about it but the change was drastic, the black levels didn't gradually get lighter over time, it happened over night. I came from LCD sets so lighter black levels do not bother me. However, i am pretty sure that this black level elevation does indeed have some negative impact on the overall picture quality in some way or form.

Well ok, if you came here looking for a thread relating to a problem you discovered for yourself 1st hand then that would prove you're not imagining it. If this is indeed a real issue I seriously hope it only effects a small percentage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cristian_ro View Post

lol... don't come back in 500 hr and cry about your blacks )

I will report back when my tv hits around 1500 hours. I hope I dont have to eat crow on this, I seriously doubt it though.
post #528 of 11162
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

It sounds like you have some other serious problems with your TV. I would have it repaired.

I wonder why you think Panasonic is purposely planting time bombs in their products? After all, Panasonic is now making neo panels for Pioneer who is stopping manufacturing plasmas. That reduces the competition. Why would Panasonic purposely now give the other makers a leg-up? it makes no sense.

Larry

I've never really thought of it as a conspiracy by panny to make a bad product intentionally, more pragmatically, it would appear to be something like, for instance, using shoddy cheap discharge capacitors that may or may not deteriorate over time for some users and thus cause the phenomenon....just speculation on my part though...but I would agree it would be ludicrous to think that panny would knowingly be behind something like this..
post #529 of 11162
QC would detect a component that deteriorated within 200 hours and if that were the cause of a problem, it would have been fixed early in (or before) production.

Larry
post #530 of 11162
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmichael View Post

...and you get what you pay for. Enjoy.

Very Very True. Pioneer you got a very well made , excellent picture quality HDTV. I may have saved a little extra and bought one next year instead of buying a V10 but... I thought about the fact they were getting out of the business and decided not to. But that is my decision. I can see why someone would still want a Pioneer Elite. It is an Excellent HDTV. Best Picture I have seen. It is a shame that Pioneer lost so much money they had to get out of the business.
post #531 of 11162
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

QC would detect a component that deteriorated within 200 hours and if that were the cause of a problem, it would have been fixed early in (or before) production.

Larry

What about bad production runs on said component(s) that might sporatically effect certain production runs of the product that might have slipped past QC?...
post #532 of 11162
The same production run can have components from many vendors. There is no guarantee that s/n x has the same components (down at the capacitor/resistor level) as s/n x+1 or x-1.

If there is a problem with the MLL -- and it has yet to be determined quantitatively that there is -- it would have to be a systemic one. Personally, I haven't seen it on either my 42 or 50X1 but that's OT since the thread was originally about the G10.

Larry
post #533 of 11162
Update !! The tech just left and he definitely saw the grayish black. He think that this is not acceptable.

He try to change the board but no difference. He verified the power supply but everything is fine...Then he did some sort of reset but in the SM menu and it actually improve black..... but still worst then before.

He is calling panny Sunday...

I said to him that im pretty sure they wont do a thing but he promise that he's gonna find the problem and solve it...

PS: sorry for my english
post #534 of 11162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin_Per View Post

Update !! The tech just left and he definitely saw the grayish black. He think that this is not acceptable.

He try to change the board but no difference. He verified the power supply but everything is fine...Then he did some sort of reset but in the SM menu and it actually improve black..... but still worst then before.

He is calling panny Sunday...

I said to him that im pretty sure they wont do a thing but he promise that he's gonna find the problem and solve it...

PS: sorry for my english

Keep us updated.
post #535 of 11162
Quote:
Originally Posted by cold_fusion View Post

I'm getting a black crush on PS3 games....it's like the gamma is cranked way down and dark areas are poorly lit and I have to crank the brightness and contrast up in the game settings..

Hmm... I don't own a V10, but I do own a PS3 and this got me thinking. The Pioneer KRP's have a known bug in their automatic color space detection that causes it to detect RGB limited output from the PS3 as RGB full.

I wonder if something similar is going on with V10's?

I left my KRP in "auto" detect mode, but changed my PS3 to output RGB full. Does this solve the problem your seeing with PS3 games?

And if so, you might try adjusting the color space setting on the V10 and see if it's just detecting wrong for other sources as well.
post #536 of 11162
Is this possibly some image retention issue that is going on? It's too bad the people who this may not be affecting are probably not reading this thread at all, so we can't see if it's a universal problem or not.

A side note: Earlier in the thread I saw people claiming how they can't wait for Panasonic to incorporate the Pioneer tech into their products. Do we really know that they will ever do this? Pioneer didn't make enough money on their products...perhaps Panny bought the tech just to bury it from other manufacturers. They are fairly clearly the leader in plasma tech now that Pio's out of the game. I, for one, don't anticipate Panny coming out with anything like a Pio Elite...ever.
post #537 of 11162
Just saw this thread. I'm sorry folks but I'm lost. I own a G10. Did the black become darker? Or did it become lighter? Or is black washed out or crushed? What should I look for? What sort of test should I do to see it?

Thanks.
post #538 of 11162
Quote:
Originally Posted by v1rtu0s1ty View Post

Just saw this thread. I'm sorry folks but I'm lost. I own a G10. Did the black become darker? Or did it become lighter? Or is black washed out or crushed? What should I look for? What sort of test should I do to see it?

Thanks.

When black level rises it becomes grayer. Few users have noticed it .Couple of them have measurements to back their claim. Couple of them have got some replies from Panasonic. If you go through the thread you can find.
post #539 of 11162
Lets not loose sight of this thread until Panasonic comes up with a solution or statement of whats going on here.A lot of Pannys will be sold during the holiday season and they need to retain the black level they are purchased with.
post #540 of 11162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meteor|WAR View Post

I have over 1000 hours on my G10 and my blacks still look the same as they always did.

I have offset my service menu settings but did not use break in slides. I actually used the OP Orta's settings and I think it looks great.

If you want my opinion, this might be a case of one G10 having a defect and other paranoid G10 owners reading this thread and believing they have the issue as well when they really dont. A form of placebo effect I guess.

TomHuffMan somewhat provides further proof with his experiences calibrating 11G panels.
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