Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 180

Originally Posted by Panaman88

I would like an answer to this as well, because I must be going blind. My tv (S1)is almost a year old and I can't seem to notice even the slightest change. I thought about buying a meter but what does a meter justify (regardless of the reading) if I can't see it with my own eyes.

Originally Posted by AtlPaul

This thread truly has become a form of masochistic entertainment. Everyday I come here to read the same 10 thoughts rehashed into 200 paragraphs.

Originally Posted by jedcaum

What he said. Some of the most respected members here have said that the black level rise shouldn't stop anyone from buying what is still a very nice tv. Just one that has issues, like all products do, that it would have been nice to have the manufacturer divulge.

The mania and "storm the bastille" mentality from some posters is unfortunate, but easy to understand if you know a little something about human nature, and mob mentality - not to mention OCD! I agree, manufacturers should disclose all known issues to consumers, and fix them when they arise. If you can read between the noise, it seems the vast majority of folks with this issue are in fact getting tech visits, boards replaced, and issues logged for later action if and when Panasonic decides how to approach it, all for a problem which bothers a very small percentage of buyers. A great deal of supposition and over-reaction has gone into much of this thread.

That isn't to say that those with dramatic rises don't have an issue they should be adamant about getting fixed, or those with less serious rise who feel that the manufacturer misled them and made their purchase based on faulty information. They have a beef, and have every right to pursue it.

But in my experience, if you are an average person looking for an above average television for a very good price, the Panasonics should do you just fine. I have a 58S1 with over 800 hours on it now, and a very suggestible personality, and even though I've been consumed with this thread, my picture just seems to get better and better. Blacks are still very black, seem just as good as the day I unboxed it to me. Much better than any LCD I've ever seen, and the image is sharp and vibrant no matter what the source. I think even SD programming has improved since the set was new, though perhaps it is just me getting used to it.

All the pitchforks and restless villagers on this thread have taken what seems to be a pretty small (relatively) issue and blown it out of any reasonable proportion. Again, read between the noise and you will find useful information on the actual issue underneath all the shouting. It seems real, and quantifiable, but infinitessimal to the vast majority of folks. Amd mpt tp be a fanboy, but it seems to me that a few isolated anecdotes aside, the jury is still out on whether or not Panasonic will deliver a fix for those who seek it. By all indications they seem to be more responsive than any of the other manufacturers out there, so calls for blood seem premature to me.

If you think you will be unhappy with what to the vast majority of buyers is an undetectable to the eye rise in black levels, look elsewhere. If not, buy a Panny and watch it; you'll be able to stay off the scary internet that way, too!

Originally Posted by D-Nice

I can see the gap between the third layer and the PDP module under it.

Originally Posted by serialmike

Fair enough. Knowing how black a set with a .09 black level is ...which i just looked at a few minutes ago...again there is no way that image documents .023. Those are black levels of like .5 represented in that image

also let me clarify....i am talking of custom mode on a g series. From what I know of thx which is similar to cinema the higher brightness in a cinema mode most likely doesnt respond the same as custom. In other words the higher brightness may indeed be fine in cinema mode

I dont have a cinema mode because I have thx on my set.

Originally Posted by jonandabby
why would anyone buy a defectively designed product when there are other options (samsung plasmas, lg plasmas, good lcd's for non-plasma people) are available??? Buying defectively designed products are the best way to ensure the corporations don't need to design good products.

Originally Posted by DocuMaker

I have very little interest in keeping a plasma for more than a year. Usually 6 months and I flip it on Craigslist and get something better.

Originally Posted by RandyWalters

And it seems like the G and VT series will not have this additional outer glass like the S2 does right?

Originally Posted by DocuMaker

To each his own, but this plays almost no part in my decision process. Once you register online, you get 15 months factory warranty with Samsung. I can purchase it with the gold card and they will extend the manufacturer's warranty another year. I have very little interest in keeping a plasma for more than a year. Usually 6 months and I flip it on Craigslist and get something better. I get such good deals on my TV's that I either break-even after enjoying them for months, or sometimes I even sell them for a profit.

To me this invalidates anything you say about a quality TV.

Anyway, I'm not going to buy a TV that not only has an inferior looking picture, but looks ugly while it sits on the stand, just because of some supposed better build quality. I'm of the opinion that the build quality on most everything is poor these days, so I might as well buy what looks pleasing to my eye and roll into something else when the warranty is up.

"My next TV is going to be hotter than your. And when she gets old I will just trade her in for a new younger model." How long do you keep your GF's for?

If I somehow ever become emotionally attached to a TV, I would just get an extended warranty and that would be that. But I don't get emotionally attached to displays, not even my Pioneer 500M. Sure it's a gorgeous display, but if anyone wants to take it off my hands for a handsome price they can surely have it. I will gladly trade the extra cash in my pocket for a temporary sacrifice in PQ. It won't be long before something comes along which is bigger and better.

Extendend warranties are like burning money. If it dies then get a new better one.

One of the main reasons I bought the 500M was to see what all the fuss was about. Now that I have had enough fun playing with it, I have the urge to toy with something else.

Originally Posted by RandyWalters

But there is a Cinema mode available when you're using the SD Card input - would it be useful for anyone to put a reference black jpg image on an SD card and take readings using Cinema mode on a G10/V10?

Originally Posted by CHUCKCHILLOUT

Did anyone that posts here ever consider the Toshiba 55SV670U?

Originally Posted by D-Nice

Correct. And the color filter beneath this third layer of glass (well Plexiglass) is definitely Kuro like. It has the same purple hue that my 4280 has.

Originally Posted by speck9

wow, first time i've heard of voiding a warranty for calibration. Probably deserves it's own thread as it affects all future DIY calibrations for Panasonics. It seemed like the possibility existed, but for them to void your warranty when you didn't even make any detrimental changes to your set is pretty horrible.

Originally Posted by greenland

Plexiglass? Have they dropped what they called "TUF" glass? How robust is that sheet of Plexiglass?

Originally Posted by Lee L

Interesting as this is the exact same tack that Mitsubishi (led by Bob Perry who now runs Panny's TV Division) took when they got caught with bad settings on their 2000, 2001 and 2002 RPTVs. They said that calibrating voided the warranty.

Originally Posted by TheFactor

LOL its amazing isnt it

Originally Posted by Lee L

I will take a picture of them side by side in the dark soon and post it. Is it best to just have no signal going to them?

Originally Posted by DocuMaker

Lemme break it down for you luciano1213. I'm sure my comments will not be popular here, but I'm not interested in winning popularity contests.

1) The Samsungs have better colors than the Panasonics. Everyone knows it.

Not THX mode.

2) Most agree with me that the Samsungs have a sharper more detailed picture as well.

Not with motion.

3) The Samsungs have better processing. If I watched nothing but HQ 1080p that doesn't need much in the way of processing I could be satisfied with a Panasonic. But if like me you watch plenty of cable TV (interlaced content) or you want to stream lower quality signals, the Pannys could use some help in this area. This can be remedied with a good external VP by the way, so if you can afford $4k for a 65V10 then I guess you can afford a $500 VP.

The G and V series de-interlace just fine. Not sure about S.

4) The Samsungs in the mid-to-upper model ranges had better AR filters than the Pannys in 2009.

Filters ave very subjective and largely depend on the room.

5) The Samsungs typically are much more aesthetically pleasing, with sleek lines, swivel stands, thinner panels (none thicker than 2.8 inches this year), better remotes, etc. This doesn't end with the external styling. The menus are much more attractive, and are much more extensive, offering a plethora of picture controls (6 series and above), without having to enter the service menu.

I have a perfectly accurate picture on a G with very slight and easy adjustments with an i1-lt. I don't feel extra controls that a Sammy has would make it any better.

6) The Samsungs have PIP/PAP, which some people might not care about, but I think it is a mandatory feature on a premium TV. My top of the line Hitachi plasma had it, and my Kuro has it, and the 6 series and above Sammys have it. So Panasonic is the odd man out. They should at least offer this on their upper tier models like the V10s.

Who cares. I have a Fios DVR.

The number one advantage the Panasonics offer(ed) over the Samsungs is the better black levels/contrast.

Even with a rise.

The Panasonics have better shadow detail than the Sammys.

Definately.

They also have a bit smoother motion.

Already said.

The Panasonics also have THX mode, but if it has a yellow/green cast and it's on the dim side this can hardly be seen as much of an advantage!

THX is fixed and is perfect! I don't feel 32 ft-L is not enough light output. I use it day and night. If you watch in bright light you can use Custom mode, which is good enough for bright rooms as accuracy is not as important then.

The Samsung has a broken Cinema Smooth that increases the black levels, so the Panasonic (V10/Z1 only) has the edge in the 24p area.

The other main advantage (at least until recently) with the Panasonics was their build-quality and customer service, which most people consider much better than Samsung. At least Samsung will extend your warranty by 3 months if you register your TV online, (those extra 3 months might be necessary!) and you still only get the standard 1 year with the Panasonics.

Ow goody a 15 month warranty. Cause if my TV last 15 month before caps explode instead of 12 months I will be happy.

Originally Posted by keithandjac

It's my first post, so I hope it's ok to post this here. I am looking into buying a 42 plasma. I found the Panasonic G10 for $800. I was planning on getting that until I read this thread. Now I'm considering the new Samsung pn42c450. It's only 720p, lower specs all around. Would I still be better off with the G10 even with raising black levels?

Thanks

Originally Posted by ClarkeBar

No, take a photo of 0 IRE. You can find a 0 IRE screen on every calibration disc out there. If you don't have one you can download the AVSHD signal/patterns program found on this forum and burn to disc. Only works with a BluRay player.

Originally Posted by pochoboy

can anyone post a link to this file in this forum? I've searched and can't locate it easily with the forums search function.