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Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 191

post #5701 of 11163
Ugh. And I thought I had done a good job with research. Well, I had, and then I made up my mind late January and didn't figure I needed to look at cnet/forums/etc for teh first couple weeks of February. And now the 46" G10 is arriving in the mail from newegg later this afternoon. And if I return it I've got to eat a 15% restocking fee (and shipping as well I'm guessing). Not sure what other plasma I'd even get because I don't think Samsung makes a 46". Wait for the 2010 Panasonic G25 models? The last thing I want to do is reward Panasonic for this.

I'm just holding out a small sliver of hope that the "fix" mentioned in eurocroc's email from support materializes, though like him I'm not optimistic.
post #5702 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackal2001 View Post

I just called panny and was told the same BL deal...
"as the pannel ages, the black level will increase to provide a nice bright picture, bla bla bla."

I told him that Panny Advertises these tvs as having infinate black and this is false advertising on pannys part. He studdered for a while and then I asked if there was someone higher up I could talk to. He said a supervisor will call me back in 1-3 days. I'm not holding my breath.

He also said that I couldn't compare my BL because I have more hours than other people have. I am assuming this. I told him that my BL continues to increase and is now the highest reported at 0.034ftl.

Attached is my HCFR file.

Same response I got.. no call yet... calling them again tomorrow.
post #5703 of 11163
Looks like someone got the ball rolling if this is real.

http://www.fglawgroup.com/files/NCHFINalPR.pdf

Shane, are you here on AVS?
post #5704 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony GT View Post

Having just started looking for a new plasma display I'm confused by one thing. Why would a company design a TV so that the black levels would increase over time? That makes no sense to me. Sorry if this was addressed in the previous 192 pages of this thread.

I'll try to summarize, the higher black levels are due to voltage adjustments for aging in an effort to assure that all the cells (pixels) are firing when appropriate. It seems the rising black level was of secondary concern to the designers/engineers.

I have no idea what is different about the Panasonic plasma design that needs this degree of voltage change with the resulting higher black level and how it is different from Pioneer, Samsung, etc which are not showing this same issue.

If I'm over simplifying or making a wrong assumption, I'm sure someone will correct me.
post #5705 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by donnymac51 View Post

Looks like someone got the ball rolling if this is real.

http://www.fglawgroup.com/files/NCHFINalPR.pdf

Shane, are you here on AVS?

I think a more precise analogy would be a change in mileage of about 1 mpg. For most people it would never be noticed, but for a few it could be significant.
post #5706 of 11163
Let's skip the calls to Panasonic and start calling the vedors (Best Buy, Sears, Internet vendors) and complain. They have a lot more clout than we do.
post #5707 of 11163
I am usually not a fan of lawsuits like this, but I hope that it goes somewhere. I would love to see the discovery and get some real facts from Panasonic. My guess is that it will settle up before that ever happens.
post #5708 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by donnymac51 View Post

Looks like someone got the ball rolling if this is real.

http://www.fglawgroup.com/files/NCHFINalPR.pdf

Shane, are you here on AVS?

How the hell did you find that. Is there a link leading up to that asking for people to come forward? I need to contact them!!!
post #5709 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by donnymac51 View Post

Looks like someone got the ball rolling if this is real.

http://www.fglawgroup.com/files/NCHFINalPR.pdf

Shane, are you here on AVS?

Looks pretty real, sign me up! I wonder if it will get anywhere......
post #5710 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackal2001 View Post

How the hell did you find that. Is there a link leading up to that asking for people to come forward? I need to contact them!!!

I googled "panasonic black level lawsuit" for shi** and grins and it came up. They just need to man up and admit the problem and fix it. This negative publicity is not doing them any good.
post #5711 of 11163
so lets assume the extreme...

Someone who watches 4:3 shows ONLY with sidebars...

so if Panasonic changed the logic to stress/work "only the signal portions of the screen"... aka make the sidebars as black as possible.

After a few months of this configuration, you could theoretically have 2 giant sidebars that have different plasma characteristics than the 4:3 portion...

So I can understand why Panasonic has to rise the blacks along the sidebars...

But not to the extent some of these photos on this thread show... BRIGHT!
post #5712 of 11163
Here's another one who wants to help.

http://www.lemonlawclaims.com/Panaso...s%20Action.htm
post #5713 of 11163
I wonder how much longer Panasonic will keep their head in the sand...
post #5714 of 11163
I may no longer have a Panny that would fit these lawsuits, but I fully support any suit that comes up against them.

If Panasonic does fix this then I will gladly buy one of them, until then, I will not buy a single Panasonic product at all.
post #5715 of 11163
I don't think that their head is in the sand at all. I think it is a matter of both arrogance regarding field experience and an aversion to admitting mistakes. Both are very typical of most manufacturers.
post #5716 of 11163
While you might be right, I'm not entirely sure about that. They admitted to the THX issue, and fixed it (although it took some time). I have to think it's a matter of cost - that downplaying the issue is somehow more cost effective than a fix/repair. Perhaps class action threats will change that perspective?

Edit: In addition, I'm sure Pansonic considers the 2009 models dead and not worth pursuing. My guess is that all their developers and engineers are working on the 2011 models. Not cost effective to fool with the 09s.
post #5717 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by defdog99 View Post

so lets assume the extreme...

Someone who watches 4:3 shows ONLY with sidebars...

so if Panasonic changed the logic to stress/work "only the signal portions of the screen"... aka make the sidebars as black as possible.

After a few months of this configuration, you could theoretically have 2 giant sidebars that have different plasma characteristics than the 4:3 portion...

So I can understand why Panasonic has to rise the blacks along the sidebars...

But not to the extent some of these photos on this thread show... BRIGHT!

this has absolutely nothing to do with avoiding "burn in". that's totally irrelevant....
post #5718 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by killayaw View Post

While you might be right, I'm not entirely sure about that. They admitted to the THX issue, and fixed it (although it took some time). I have to think it's a matter of cost - that downplaying the issue is somehow more cost effective than a fix/repair. Perhaps class action threats will change that perspective?

Edit: In addition, I'm sure Pansonic considers the 2009 models dead and not worth pursuing. My guess is that all their developers and engineers are working on the 2011 models. Not cost effective to fool with the 09s.

Do we even know if this can be addressed with just firmware or if it requires hardware changes as well?
post #5719 of 11163
I just sent an email via online web form to Richard Golomb, Golomb & Honik, P.C., of Philadelphia. He was the one stated in that PDF as being involved with this case. He is closest to me in PA.
post #5720 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by phlevin View Post

Do we even know if this can be addressed with just firmware or if it requires hardware changes as well?

No idea. I have no tech knowledge on this issue outside what has already been discussed in this thread.

I'll guess that the fix (firmware or hardware replacement) isn't easy or cheap. Even a simple firmware fix is likely to go through a lengthly QA QC process that burns man hours.
post #5721 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackal2001 View Post

I just sent an email via online web form to Richard Golomb, Golomb & Honik, P.C., of Philadelphia. He was the one stated in that PDF as being involved with this case. He is closest to me in PA.

Keep us updated!
post #5722 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by killayaw View Post

No idea. I have no tech knowledge on this issue outside what has already been discussed in this thread.

I'll guess that the fix (firmware or hardware replacement) isn't easy or cheap. Even a simple firmware fix is likely to go through a lengthly QA QC process that burns man hours.

i am pretty sure D-NICE has said it's a hardware issue.
post #5723 of 11163
Thanks for the info. Either way, I don't think Panasonic will fix it. That's why I'm still pushing for a refund.
post #5724 of 11163
I upgrade to 1.29, for Viera Cast, someone knows this update fix, or does?
post #5725 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcaillo View Post

Some junior engineer probably took some data out of context and thought he was doing something that would have a benefit to the user. Classic error of engineering detached from field experience is my guess.


So very true. Plus a lack of in-house testing to verify the engineering.

Larry
post #5726 of 11163
bendergender, as explained upthread, this is just a VieraCast update for adding Twitter and so forth.

So at this point it really sounds like I should just take the 15% restocking fee hit before my 30 days are up? Does anyone know if Samsung has a 46" plasma? The only other choice is to get the 46" G25 and cross my fingers.
post #5727 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by bendergender View Post

I upgrade to 1.29, for Viera Cast, someone knows this update fix, or does?

Where is that 1.29? Is it only available on VieraCast? All I see on US webpage is 1.28 for my G10.
post #5728 of 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faust3D View Post

Where is that 1.29? Is it only available on VieraCast? All I see on US webpage is 1.28 for my G10.

You have to connect your tv to the net via ethernet cable.
post #5729 of 11163
Vieracast has 1.29 up now. It's the peaks update.
post #5730 of 11163
Or any other type of in-depth calibration?
Would that affect the outcome of the black levels over time?
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