Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 215

I had a 58B650 which I had to return because of unbearable buzzing. I had it next to my 50PZ85U for a few days to do a direct comparison. The blacks & MLL to my eyes were virtually identical but the Panasonic had notably better shadow detail. Unfortunately, I did not have a meter when I had the Samsung but I just measured my PZ85U at 0.021 - 0.023. My 58S1 (B650 replacement) measured 0.006 - 0.008. There was a noticeable difference going from the B650 Samsung to S1 with regards to blacks, without a doubt.

It is also worth noting that I absolutely loved the pq of the Samsung. It definitely had superior colors and better processing than any of my Panasonic plasmas and if mine didn't buzz like crazy, I would have been thrilled with the set.

well, i jumped the gun and purchased a sammy UN46B6000VF literally no more than 20 mins ago. they had it at bestbuy for $1299 (supposedly $1200 off the original price). it looked good in the store but i am a novice at this. it was mostly the price with the price break that made me buy it. hopefully the black levels are good enough for me (ill have to research and see what they really are), im sure to a total newb like me though itll be fine.

kind of sad though, since i was set on a plasma, a panasonic to be exact due to price and performance that i read about, but this thread was enough to scare me away from anything from panasonic until they change their attitude (can that even be expected from a multimillion dollar corp?)

i sometimes go out of my way to sacrifice and make a point (ie, not buying the panasonic because of the way they are handling this issue)...hope i didnt make a mistake. im off to do some more research to make myself feel better about my purchase, lol.

This is exactly what I plan to do. I am just going to hold off on buying an HDTV for a few more years and see what develops. Hopefully prices will continue to drop.

Crimney...I remember having this conversation with a friend of mine many years ago on computers. You have to step into the water at some point, or you'll never purchase if you are waiting for the "magical year". If it's this issue this year with panasonic, or a few years from now it will be the 3D isn't popping how it should be. Not to diminish the black issue at all, it's very serious and detrimental to panasonic. Prices won't continue to drop because they will have new features that you will need to pay for the r&D ...If you are ready to buy, I say pick the best based on the research and what's in the market at the time. Just stay away from panasonic! HA!

You can't be serious.., HDTV on a current Panasonic tv easily beats SDTV!

Watch tv with lights on and you may not even notice the rising blacks.

People are actually getting store credit and refunds?

Yeah I must say with my bias light the black bars look almost as good as when I first got the TV...I can only imagine how good yours looks. Maybe Panasonic should include a CinemaQuest coupon with their TV's.

I never read any reviews, professional or user, which said Kuro blacks for an LG price. The black levels were reported to be close to the Kuros with better shadow detail and sure enough they were until the rise. BTW my Panasonic set me back $3500 which is hardly what I consider cheap. The reality is upon viewing an enthusiast would be unlikely to make such an idiotic assumption and if my TV out of the box looked like it does now I wouldn't have bought it. I just don't get it...Some of us had to deal with the THX issue followed by the BL rise and now we have to deal with people like you! I'd really like to know what your motivation was for posting this other than to insult forum members or was that the only reason?

I'm sure its been previously asked but I can't find it on here

are we sure this process doesn't happen on othe rmanufacturer's Plasmas ? ie is it something inherent to Plasmas ?

my PF11UK Pana blacks look as good as when I first owned it

That was just an example. Watch any commercial block and I am sure you can come up with your own. Just out of my head... washing powders (how comes that the advertised one is soooo much better than "regular washing powder"?), mascaras that make your eyelashes 3x longer, or anti-wrinke creams. It would be interesting to see an average amount of money spent on a TV and anti-wrinkle cosmetics in a household. I see it as highly plausible that a woman spends in 5 years more on cosmetics compared to a cost of plasma TV.

I did not want to start off topic debate. Just wanted to point out there is so much false advertising nowadays I barely see lawsuit getting us anywhere closer to better PQ.

I have a 42" G15 and I thought the same thing at first. But upon further inspection, I don't think content on the screen is any darker than the bars. It's just surrounded by a brighter image so it appears darker, whereas with the bars you see a huge area against the bezel so it appears lighter.

You should stop. Your examples are going from bad to worse since you are failing to understand the basic reason why people are upset with the panel.

I have been following this thread since I bought my 54G10 in January. I considered returning it but could not find anything comparable at the price. I have probaly 250 -300hrs so I probably have not been hit yet. i hope Panasonic fixes the issue but I doubt they will. To my point... I was at BB and saw 5 - 2009's on display ( 2 V10's 2 S1's and a G10 ). In every case they still looked good and all but the G10 were next to other TV's that they looked better to much better as far as overall picture quality ( I know I know lighting in big box stores). I think I will stop obsessing and just enjoy my TV and if the blacks start to go bad I will add the biased lighting and I think I will still be very happy with my purchase.

This was a bad idea. If your gamma is too low, lowering the brightnesssetting is not the right solution.

You may want to consider returning it anyway.
Right now my plasma is like an LCD monitor

Black level is really important when watching in the dark -- especially if it is a moody, dark movie.

last night i download a pioneer kuro best demo and watched it in a pitch back room. there are a lot of pure black scenes with some fish, flowers, etc. I almost cried that my tv looks like an LCD.

i wish i could return this tv.

Infinate Black Panel

Definition of infinate:

Unlimited or boundless, in time or space; as, infinite duration or distance.

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Without limit in power, capacity, knowledge, or excellence; boundless; immeasurably or inconceivably great; perfect; as, the infinite wisdom and goodness of God; -- opposed to finite.

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Indefinitely large or extensive; great; vast; immense; gigantic; prodigious.

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Greater than any assignable quantity of the same kind; -- said of certain quantities.

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Capable of endless repetition; -- said of certain forms of the canon, called also perpetual fugues, so constructed that their ends lead to their beginnings, and the performance may be incessantly repeated.

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That which is infinite; boundless space or duration; infinity; boundlessness.

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An infinite quantity or magnitude.

I think Panasonic was actually refering to the bezel. My bezel is still totally black. Hasn't changed a bit.

My bezel is actually looking blacker and blacker, near Kuro black actually, likely due to the glowing charcoal grey bars on my G15. At least Panasonic got one "black" component right.

Maybe we should paint our bezels to match. We might be a whole lot happier.
You go first and let me know how it works out.

I really think Panasonic knew exactly what they where doing when they designed these panels.

They knew plasma was on it's way out, because people where buying less plasma's and more LCDs. So in order to keep the investment they had, they told the engineers to improve blacks.

There's no doubt in my mind the engineers told the boss's "we can make the blacks better for a short time, but over time they will be what they where on previous models". So of course the marketing department jumped at this!

Typical corporations, look at the short term and hope nobody notices the man behind the curtain has no clothes on.

To bad this class action suit won't be worth enough to any law firm to spend the time and money it would take to get that information through discovery from Panasonic though.

Whatever happened to the good old days when you could count on Sony making a high-end product you where willing to pay for, and Panasonic was just a second class mass merchandise company that didn't really make high end products?

It's to bad we don't have any more high end TV manufactures besides a few of the ultra expensive front projection guys..

Of course they knew how the TV's were going to perform. They still called them infinate black panels. They must have a different definition of infinate.

lol

TVpredictions.com has listed the BL Panasonic/ class action suit. It's about 3/4 down the page.

Basically the same thing on the other website but here it is anyway:

News Digest
Panasonic Sued Over Plasma's Picture Quality
TVPredictions.com
Washington, D.C. (March 4, 2010) -- Panasonic has been hit with a class action suit regarding claims that the picture quality on its Plasma HDTVs has been declining.

According to CNET.com, the lawsuit, which was filed February 12 in federal court in Newark, New Jersey, claims an increase in the brightness of the black levels of the Plasma sets. Additionally, the defendants are charging that the sets are showing a decrease in their contrast ratios.

If true, the higher black level and lower contrast ratio would dilute the picture quality of the sets.

CNET says the suit states that "the television is no longer producing the same image quality that (Panasonic) represented it would produce."

The technology web site writes that it tested two 2009 model Panasonic Plasma sets and found a declining performance.

When asked about the test, Panasonic issued the following statement to CNET:

"Unfortunately, after our discussions about providing you with further information, a lawsuit regarding this issue was filed. While we believe that the lawsuit is baseless, since this is now a matter in litigation, Panasonic company policy prohibits us from responding to your questions."

The picture quality issue first surfaced at Internet message boards when Panasonic owners complained that their sets were under performing.

Perhaps this is why panasonic included anti image retention features in the 2009 models. They knew about this rise with increased IR.

I don't know where you purchased it from, but you could trying calling them first to feel them out. Then I would go to the store and explain what has happened to management and just feel it out. There is no harm in trying; I can't see how a store wouldn't give a refund or at least store credit if someone was generally unhappy with a big purchase like that. Now if you got it online, I don't know what to say on that.

On a side note, where did you download the pioneer demo?

I got it from Vanns.com and they only have a 15 day return policy which is long gone.
http://www.demo-world.eu/trailers/hi...n-trailers.php
download kuro best 1

news of lawsuits hitting more of the media:


Panasonic Sued Over Plasma Black Level Issue
http://hometheater.about.com/b/2010/...evel-issue.htm