Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 26

Are you sure the warranty company would really honor repairing or replacing a TV based on increase black levels? I would be surprised. Since there is no documented guarantee on the initial black level performance I doubt Mack will be obligated to restore your initial level and it will be hard as heck to adequately document anyway.

Hey Orta, have you done a calibration on your system's SD modes? I have not, the signal is so variable/bad from my cable box (moving back to satellite in about a month) but I have noticed that the blacks can be really bad in SD mode even though they seem to be fine (knock on wood) with HD signals.

BTW - a public thank you for taking the time way back when to give me the info and encouragment to get into doing my own calibrations.

In my case, I see the doubled black levels when I'm watching blu-rays. I'll be getting a new A-board soon, though it sounds like that doesn't always fix the problem.

I can tell you right now that plasma technology has come a LONG way in 4 years. I've owned 4 plasmas since 2006 (sold old plasmas to friends and family in order to upgrade - yes, it's crazy, but hey) and each one has offered marked improvement over the last. Using a 9th gen Kuro now.

The older Panasonic panels have a VERY noisy image and display very poor shadow detail. These are issues that have been left behind by most manufacturers. Even if the black levels increased over time on the new Panasonic, I feel it would still look vastly superior to an older Panasonic.

It's definitely safe to upgrade. You'll see a huge improvement.

I use Standard mode. I got my settings from Serial Mike, he posted some good settings. My brightness is at 49. I keep my contrast at 65. I don't have BD yet, some people say that BD black levels are darker than satellite blacks. When i watch the picture itself on Directv HD, the blacks look blacker than my 4:3 bars. Hopefully everything is fine for now. I appreciate your kind help, thanks.

Chris - I have not used the standard mode settings as I understand that there were some problems with gamma on standard. Don't remember right off if these were too high or too low.

From what I have read, Gamma is best on THX and next best on Custom.

I used Custom for everything for the first four months that I had the TV and was very happy.

Recently, my wife and I tried THX for the first time since the set was broken in, for watching Blu-Rays and DVDs. Since our movie watching is primarily in the evenings, the slightly less bright picture is not an issue. Plus, my set came with the 1.20 firmware that supposedly had the corrected THX settings. I never had an issue with the amber or antique look because of incorrect green drive with the THX settings. We have both started to notice what we consider a few improvements using THX instead of Custom. We are seeing what appear to be deeper blacks, more shadow detail and the colors appear very film like. Still not to be confused with colors in the real world. Also, when black sidebars do appear, they are darker than they were in Custom and the faint glow is either reduced or non-existent.

If you have over 200 hours on your set, try THX in a darkened room with a good DVD or Blu-Ray (not animated), and maybe let this help in judging any percieved increase in black level.

I have over 1000 hours on it. I don't have dvd either. I bought the set mainly for sports and movies from Directv HD. I have tried Custom, i like it too, but i like the picture on Standard. I tried THX, i don't like it. I like more 'pop' to me, THX is dull. When i buy a BD, hopefully soon, i will try it and then judge the black level. As on satellite, some channels look better than the other ones and one HD channel might have a better black level, than another one.
Thanks again.

Just tried watching Beowulf on my G10 HDDVD in THX in a completely dark room at night. The dark scene when Grendel first attacks is unwatchable, now, everything is light gray like a cheap LCD, no contrast at all. It looked better when I jacked up the contrast in Custom mode but still, the blacks are definitely doubled.

Could you take a picture of that scene and post it here? Along with your user menu settings? (Contrast, Brightness, etc.)

I was all set on buying a P58S1 but it looks like I should pick up a Sammy PN58B650 instead? I've read about some Buzzing reports with that unit, but that doesn't concern me as much as the black levels going LCD on me. 4 months of this thread with a lot of theory and limited response from Panasonic isn't promising. My Dad just picked up the P50G10, will have to keep an eye out for this.

FWIW - I have had my G10 since early September and my blacks have not doubled. I watch the display in a theater room with no windows and no ambient light so I would notice if my blacks had doubled.

P.S. I never entered the SM and did not do the break in slides.

Thanks for the response. Based on that, and being able to watch my Dads for the problem, I should know enough to decide whether I want to take a chance on this or not.

.... im starting to think that maybe the 12g are more sensitive about the break in slides and the stress that is done with that procedure damage the set...

Ive done a break in on my first G10 and the black have doubled

Lets see if there is any tendency ..

Not on my sets. One had the break-in performed. The other not. Both changed the same.

Larry

How do you know they have doubled? Just to get more info in this thread.

Orta still checking in? Any estimate on when you will know whether you see the same results with the S1 or not?

Still wondering if anyone else had the experience of their blacks getting lighter following a firmware update. Just trying to figure out if that was a coincidence or not.
For those who didn't catch my earlier post I had the problem with the yellowish-green THX mode and had heard that the 1.20 firmware update was a fix for that. Or that was the rumor anyway. I did the update (actually up to and including 1.25) and the yellow-green cast was gone, but there was something else wrong. I couldn't put my finger on it until I popped in the Godfather II blu-ray. Then, due to it being such a dark film in many scenes, it was completely obvious that the blacks were suddenly much, much lighter. I have watched this film several times on blu-ray and on this G10. I can't say that the blacks literally doubled because I don't have a meter, but they certainly APPEAR to be about half as dark as they were. I know, completely unscientific, but I didn't want to not report this just because I don't have hard data. It's enough of a problem that I don't want to watch my G10 until the replacement A-board comes in. I just got used to a great black level. Granted, I've never experienced a Pioneer Elite Kuro.
Of course some have said that A-board replacement didn't solve this problem for them, but I'll let you know my results or lack thereof. I wonder if the manufacture date of the A-board could make a difference. I made a request for as recent an A-board as possible, but I don't know if it's possible to pick and choose.

This darn thread freaked me out, so I picked up a Samsung 40B530 to see if I could get by w/ an LCD (I browse A LOT on my HTPC anyway).



I can't. Ugh...it's horrible.

i am wondering if the 07 models have the same issues with blacks. Mine is a 08 october 720p . Looks like both 720 and 1080p are affected by this issue so i doubt its bad line of panels

If you only see the increased black levels when watching Blu-Rays and you're using a PS3, it's possible your levels are set wrong in your PS3. Change them from full to limited. Of course, if they're already set to limited, then it's something else. It might sound crippling, but limited is actually the correct setting for this TV.

Actually, I meant that I only use the G10 to watch blu-rays. I don't have a
PS3.

My px60u measured about 0.033 ftL
My px75u measured about 0.024 ftL
Both my px80us measured about 0.016 ftL
They did not seem to change over the year I had each of them.


Both my X1s started out at about 0.014 and now they both are at about 0.024 ftL

Larry

Ouch, I wouldn't say that my G10 looks as bad as my old 42px75, but it is pretty rough compared to what I had seen in the beginning. (my initial impressions called the blacks "Kuro Like" no way I can say that now.

I've got another call into the Panasonic tech (planning on returning my 54g10 becasue of the ABL being agressive in custom, and added picture noise in standard, I just can't get a nice and bright image without serious drawbacks, so I am going to return it and get either the 58s1 or a dirt cheap Sammy LCD (52b550) and wait for the next round of Panny Plasma sets (at which point a 65inch set will be my next buy) Maybe I should try for a 58pz850 as well....

Send this to Panasonic. Anyway i am happy with G10.

S1 series are okay with respect to the black level issue? Or you just feel the flaw is justifiable with the lower price of S1? Sorry, I haven't read all the past comments in this thread yet.

I don't think that anyone with the S1 series has reported the issue so far, but the lower cost would help to swallow this kind of flaw.

How would the cost of a TV 'swallow' a prominent item such as black level? My post above shows data for all the lowest cost Panasonics. Black level is black level is black level.

Larry