Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 256

Use this link:
http://reviews.cnet.com/best-hdtvs

The "?tag=nl.e702" only works after you visit the site once.

Note that Panasonic's higher-end 2009 plasma TVs have been removed from this list. That's mainly because of ratings reductions related to observed changes in picture quality.

OUCH!

What are you people talking about?

http://reviews.cnet.com/best-plasma-tvs/


Larry

the link worked for me.

Larry, the page you linked to apparently hasn't been updated yet....

ouch
what a kick in the nards
I was just looking through my HDD and found some pics I took of my tv when I first got it running the kuro demo vids








damn it used to look amazing

Try and capture the same stills now, and post side-by-side.

I want my G-10 to look like that !!!!

I was really hoping that when this all started that Panasonic would step up to the plate and provide some sort of clear answer and a fix so that I can go on and purchase with confidence. I guess it's clear now that I will have to shop for another brand as I can't sit and wait for Panasonic to do what's right.

Any recommedation?

I'm don't know too much about black levels, but I would like for my hushand to run the kuro slides on his 500m to see how it looks in comparsion. Hey thanks for the great photo shots.

I'm sure this has been asked, but is the jump in black level really that bad? I smell a bunch of people who simply want a free 3D TV.

Are we talking embarrassing LCD black levels?

We own a 500m and the Picture looks good on it, but once again I don't know a whole lot about black levels. My neighbor has a panny(not sure the model)that I got to briefly take a look at and I didn't see a major difference.

Did it look that good in person though? My V10 has never had black levels that dark. I've always been able to clearly see the border with the bezel during dark scenes in a room without lights on. In fact, my V10's black levels never really impressed me from the beginning. I have 200 hours on now and they still seem the same - so so. The XBR6 LCD in my bedroom doesn't have black levels that are drastically worse, aside from the flashlighting in the corners. I was really expecting Kuro blacks when I got the set out of the bright showroom... didn't get that. I love the overall picture quality, but I just never saw amazing blacks like in those photos - so I'm curious, are other people seeing them on their V10s?

ya it did look like that in person

you could barely see the screen in a black room. To my eyes it was as deep as my kuro 5080

now it's on par with my samsung a450 basically and seemingly 3-4x brighter than my kuro

He's just doing his job. How can anyone officially recommend a TV that changes its key attribute so drastically so fast to uncertain levels? Frankly, it's mind boggling to me that some professional reviewers of 2010 Panny models didn't even mention the problem in their recent reviews when it's known that the black levels will still rise. It seems they either have some business relationship to protect or are just plain incompetent. DK and CNet have earned a lot of respect in my book.

I love my Kuro and its Picture quality, however, I need a new set for the bedroom. (and can't afford another Kuro)On a $2k budget any good LCDs you guys care to recommend since the gap on Plasma and LCD seems to be closing.

Thanks

The Panasonic LCD's are quite nice. They don't have quite the contrast ratio of the S-PVA models from Samsung and others, but they sport IPS panels with vibrant colors and good viewing angles.

Well the set went form the best black available on a 2009 set sold in the world to (and this aint an exaggeration) The worst black level of any set sold in the world. No plasma or LCD has worse black level in 09.

Not even an insignia or some off brand crap.

personally i dont think they're lcd bad or anything but when it comes to plasma standards its a kick in the balls especially when one of the major selling factors is how good the tvs do blacks.

if panasonic has to replace the tv completely to fix the problem then fine by me however i'd be im more than happy if the problem could be fixed via firmware.

Maybe when viewed straight on, but move a bit to the side and the Panny still beats them handily. I have seen several new LCD's in a fairly dark environment at Magnolia that I thought looked great until I moved a few degrees off center..then their really nice blacks go down the tubes. Someday SOMEONE will make a Kuro quality set again...meanwhile I wait..lol.

I (we) have a 50v10 purchased in August 2009, with just over 1000 hours on it. One evening in January we noticed that the lovely inky blacks we used to have are no longer there. Is it that bad? It all depends on your viewing setup and your expectations, and according to the official line from Panasonic "it is not visible to a person". It well may be that not all sets are affected, although I personally believe that they all are but not everyone will notice it in their viewing environment.

We watch movies in a completely dark room with the wall behind the TV gently illuminated with LED strip lighting. In that setup, when new, the black of the panel was almost like ink. Not quite as dark as the display frame (we could see some faint glow), but very dark and satisfying nonetheless. Right now, the "black" of the panel is brighter than the illuminated wall behind it and it emits a definite glow. For comparison purposes, it is noticeably brighter than the LED backlit display of my MacBook Pro.

We bought a "high end" display and expect high end performance. What we have now in terms of the black level is comparable to an inexpensive LCD panel. Do we want this fixed? Of course! Do we want a "free" 3D display? Personally we could not care less - until the technology allows 3D viewing without the need for any glasses or other cumbersome attachments we are not at all interested. We want a TV that that performs like it did when we purchased it for a reasonable amount of time. We understand that phosphor based displays will age over time and the image quality will slowly degrade. We have a 7 year old 1080i CRT that simply blows away the V10 in terms of contrast ratio on both ends (black and white).

Most products have issues, not just televisions. What is important is the manufacturer's response and support in resolving these issues. What is infuriating about this particular issue is Panasonic's disgraceful denials and refusal to acknowledge that this is a real issue for some people. All I can say is that if this is not resolved for us to our satisfaction then this will be the last Panasonic display we spend our hard earned money on. Panasonic customer support is in dire need to learn the principles of customer support and brand loyalty from companies like Apple. And this last statement is based on my own personal experiences.

V.

Panny plasmas are still among the best sets available today...in spite of the black level issues. Samsung and LG black levels are probably similar to the Panny even after it rises in black levels. Some of the LCD's are very nice now too, and trounce the Panny on black levels, but you have to sit directly in front of them to get a great PQ. The new LG plasma xxPK550 is supposedly much improved over last years models. I have not read any tests yet out about how much the 2010 Samsung plasmas are improved. Panasonic needs to fix the black level issues though. Most people won't notice the issue, but their reputaion is taking a major hit here. You could probably buy any brand 2010 plasma and get a nice set for the money. Just make sure you can return it though in case you aren't happy.

I respectfully disagree.

The way I see it, the only area where they soundly beat the competition, is their Anti-reflective coating. If glare isn't an issue in your home, than this feature is moot. LGs look a lot better and offer way more color control. I would be on the fence about Sammys. I guess they are equal.

I would be hesitant to buy from a company that calls a bug a feature, as Panny has done in this case. My 2 cents.

I agree. Another is that once risen they are the worst black level set on market from a 15 degree angle left or right.

For me Im noever more than + - 15 degree center when viewing. Personally I could care less about anyone seeing the set a little more off center than that annd furthermore most people that I know just dont give a crap.

There is not an LCD on the wall at best buy that has higher than .25 black level + - 15 degree center thats just a fact. And a fact for panny that is just plain sad.

You are igorning the fact the the Panny black level at it's worst is still similar to levels on an LG. The LG's are nice sets, but they aren't a Kuro either. I still think any of the 3 plasma brands are decent bets for the price. When you say LG's look a lot better do you mean stylewise (IMHO YES) or PQ wise (IMHO NO)?

Excepting higher end models, I don't see the better blacks on most LCD's that you are referring to. In a dark environment many of them still have the bluish glowing murky blacks that ruin the picture. You may see be seeing better blacks on Best Buy's wall though because plasmas don't look great in bright lighting.

Do you have actual measurements from calibrators to confirm that ALL LCD's beat a Panny plasma on black levels? Perhaps D-Nice or Chad B could weigh in on this. I seriously doubt that is the case. I think the off-center viewing IS a big deal for many people...I have a sectional sofa and the people on the right 'leg' of it would see a terrible picture on LCD's vs a plasma. I agree that Panny needs to fix this issue though!

Buy a Panasonic Plasma, and then buy a square trade warranty on it
or buy a used 50"+ TV then sell it later

And with all those color controls, can any LG plasma equal or surpass Panasonic's THX mode in accuracy? If not, then how are the extra controls an advantage?

Sammy Plasma 8000 series are starting to hit stores and early reports from viewers in the Sammy thread are that its AR filter is much better than the G25. I haven't seen one yet. I'm only relaying info.

I would say both in style and PQ. They process signals better. Less noise and artifacts. I thought this when I owned one and I've seen in confirmed elsewhere on AVS.

So if black level is nearly even between the two, I think it behooves us as consumers to try something else. Panny can't keep riding on a reputation that is smoke and mirrors. I know they will though and it drives me nuts.