Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 279

Originally Posted by Vader424242

Personally, I believe that the best way to get results is to give Panasonic a massive PR black eye. I have been considering several possibilities to do just that, including alerting the local media to this problem. Each of the local news stations here has a consumer hotline, and if they deem the story of legitimate concern, they will cover the story on the evening news. I would be willing to bet that most other local news stations have something similar. There are even more consumer watchdogs on the radio (including some that have national coverage via syndication). Just a thought.

Originally Posted by johnnylighton

I've been a lawyer for 18 years and I can tell you that joining a class action lawsuit will not solve this problem. In fact, it will probably cause the problem to be fixed in concrete for us to live with forever.

Originally Posted by CHUCKCHILLOUT

Boy, can you imagine on how some of those conversations would look on TV? "Panasonic promised me infinite blacks....."The general public would think we're fools!

Originally Posted by johnnylighton

I've been a lawyer for 18 years and I can tell you that joining a class action lawsuit will not solve this problem. In fact, it will probably cause the problem to be fixed in concrete for us to live with forever. Here's why:

Class action lawyers are not paid based on the outcome they achieve for their clients. In fact, whether they get a poor outcome or a great outcome, they are paid the same! The reason for this is that they are not paid by a percentage of what they recover. They are paid for the hours they work on the case, multiplied by a factor of between approximately 0.8 and 2.0 depending on the risk undertaken by the lawyers and the public benefit to the case.

This is how it typically works, applied to the issue at hand: an enterprising law firm spots this issue as a potential class action. They look into it. They talk to their experts. If they decide it has merit, they find one or more well-suited plaintiffs. In this case, the plantiffs would be purchasers who have not violated the warranties on their sets and who have experienced a significant jump in black level. Then they put several lawyers hard at work on the case and contact all purchasers of these models regardless of their black levels to invite them to be part of the class. They fight with Panasonic tooth-and-nail and run up their fees. Then they reach a settlement with Panasonic on behalf of all the class members. Would this settlement be the replacement of the panels with a new panel? Or maybe the refund of the customers' money? Gosh no. It would be a coupon for $100 or $150 for the customers to use in purchasing new Panasonic products. Or maybe a refund of $100 or $150 if the lawyers were really good. Whatever...it doesn't matter because the lawyers still get paid! All they have to do is have the court approve the settlement which includes their attorneys' fees -- and is often more money going to the attorneys than all the class members together, especially since only some class members actually take advantage of the settlement offer.

So a class action here will let Panasonic off the hook without ever solving our problem! Be warned! Before you join a class action, have the attorneys demonstrate the settlements they have achieved which actually resulted in 100% money back or a replacement for a new item! I'd be very surprised if they could satisfy you with their answer if they were truthful and you were persistent and penetrating with your questioning.

Originally Posted by Vader424242

I concur, if you use that terminology. OTOH, if it is put something along the lines of, ""Remember all of the perks (like PQ, THX, etc) the smurf at Best Buy used to get you to drop 2k more on this set than the cheap LCD sitting right next to it? Well, after a couple of months time the PQ will be no better, so you were taken for a ride and you will have nothing to show for it above that cheap LCD. Panasonic is simply denying the problem so they won't have to provide a fix, banking on people not noticing."

Originally Posted by agnathra

honestly i think most normal people would be disgusted that we spent thousands of dollars on a tv in the first place, and then found something to complain about.

Originally Posted by C-Lo13

So I emailed them, they sent me an email telling me to call them. So I call and tell them about my black levels and my IR. She tells me that the TV was designed to be so black. So black. And that it looked so good when it was new. It was so black it was beyond black. It was so much better than anything else out there (seriously this is what she said) But then it was designed for the black levels to rise so that it would look closer to every other tv, but a little bit better. (seriously this is what she said) So I started to question her and now I'm supposed to have a manager call me in the next 24-48 hrs.

Seriously.... they must think everyone is stupid...

Originally Posted by C-Lo13

So I emailed them, they sent me an email telling me to call them. So I call and tell them about my black levels and my IR. She tells me that the TV was designed to be so black. So black. And that it looked so good when it was new. It was so black it was beyond black. It was so much better than anything else out there (seriously this is what she said) But then it was designed for the black levels to rise so that it would look closer to every other tv, but a little bit better. (seriously this is what she said) So I started to question her and now I'm supposed to have a manager call me in the next 24-48 hrs.

Seriously.... they must think everyone is stupid...

Originally Posted by Gov

I agree that this is unfortunately a dead issue that will result in no fix what so ever.
That said tho, I am hoping that those people that have contributed MLL data to "BDEAMERS" will continue to chart their MLL and hours from time to time here. I am really interested in seeing how the 58/65's do after a few thousand hours on them.
My 58" has about 1150 hours on it now and with my eyes the MLL looks like it has been the same since about 700 hours or so.
Yes, I continue to pay attention to how my blacks look everyday, but have decided that this is a good display that I can still enjoy!

Originally Posted by johnnylighton

I want Panasonic to do one of two things: replace my panel (as well as the same model that I bought for my mother-in-law) with a new panel that doesn't have this black level issue, or refund my purchase price.

Originally Posted by RickD1225

This thread is so 2009, Panny is on to new models, 3D, etc. My 65" looks great with over 1500 hours in. The blacks aren't Kuro black, but I knew that going in. Have they risen, maybe, but not to any extent that is noticeable or irritating. I can understand the angst the owners with the doubling or tripling BL panels feel I would have the same reaction. I could have gotten a Pioneer, but the largest screen was only 60" (I came from a 65" RPTV) and couldn't give up the real estate and I got the 65" for about 1/2 the Kuro price including a stand.

Originally Posted by silkypimp1974

I agree, my 58s1 has around 1300 hours and the blacks are still black, probably not the ink black it was when I got it but it is still black. I think Panny adjusted the level of the voltage increase later in 2009 after they became aware of it before the complaints started in Jan. My model was built Nov 2009 so I think the rising is pretty much done if it stays true to the patent readings of 500, 750 and 1000 hours mentioned earlier in this huge thread.

Originally Posted by silkypimp1974

My model was built Nov 2009 so I think the rising is pretty much done if it stays true to the patent readings of 500, 750 and 1000 hours mentioned earlier in this huge thread.

Originally Posted by fahrenheit

Where specifically are those times mentioned?

Originally Posted by silkypimp1974

No clue, search patent voltage increases. I am not even sure that it was in this exact thread. It may be a another thread in AVS.

Originally Posted by Gov

I agree that this is unfortunately a dead issue that will result in no fix what so ever.
That said tho, I am hoping that those people that have contributed MLL data to "BDEAMERS" will continue to chart their MLL and hours from time to time here. I am really interested in seeing how the 58/65's do after a few thousand hours on them.
My 58" has about 1150 hours on it now and with my eyes the MLL looks like it has been the same since about 700 hours or so.
Yes, I continue to pay attention to how my blacks look everyday, but have decided that this is a good display that I can still enjoy!

Originally Posted by chad473

the thread is basically dead because it's nothing but ranting for the past few months.

I do plan on remeasuring my s1 over the weekend though and forwarding the numbers on to the guys keeping the spreadsheet. I would guess i'm between 1500-2000 hours at this point.

Originally Posted by CHUCKCHILLOUT

Also-doesn't mixed screen content look pretty good? I'm not sure I got a rise, but the blacks are not the deepest, but mixed content looks great and bright scenes. It would be nice if I had a meter to qualify my opinions, but what can you do?

Originally Posted by Vader424242

Until either a) the class-action is finished, and Panny can no longer hide behind it ("we can not say anything as long as this is in litigation, but we repeat... it is a feature, not a bug", or b) THX finishes it's evaluation and officially comments, there is really nothing more to add. In the meantime, the main thing is making every electronics news outlet aware of the issue, and compiling more quantitative data on the issue (what would be useful is a grid of model numbers vs hours/rise vs manufacture date).

Originally Posted by Laborix

Mixed contend looks good, but only when you have no bars on the screen.