Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 308

Hi, I was following this thead and others. Actually I have a PANASONIC S1 Plasma, since Octuber 2009, I don't see any change in black levels, it's still look very good, but reading this thead I suppose that the blacklevel rising will happend soon or late irremediably??, And I have the chance to buy now a Panasonic"58 V10 Plasma, is an exhibition display in a store with a %60 discount, look good the black level I don't see washed the blacks, I want big plasma, but with all this things doesn't it still a good buy?

The mystery deepens. So, now we have an MLL rise which is not consistent with their claimed design specs in the patent. Wouldn't that be incontrovertible proof that the TVs are not operating as Panny designed them (i.e. the initializing voltage after the rise is measured and compared to the patent). If so, what would Panny say if one of their techs confirmed this as the cause if, say, increased IR (by measuring a post-rise set)?. It is clearly not operating as designed, so would that bypass their "not a warranty issue" claim? If they are trying to hide behind the "It's designed to do that. See, look at the patent" defense, what could they say to a "the patent says that the final initializing voltage should be no more than 235v, but on this set it's 280v...?!?" They are hiding behind the fact that there is no standard for measuring MLL, but there is for voltage which is pretty cut and dry. I wonder if cnet is aware of this...

On another note, does anyone know what is going on with the class-action lawsuit? Not hopeful, just curious.

mustangs1, THANK YOU! When I originally set my brightness, I did it from my seating position, which is not close enough to see the individual pixels. last night, I reset my contrast to 55, and (using the patterns Larry recommended) reset the brightness. As one would expect, they are practically identical to those yielded by DVE. The difference is that this time I was close enough to observe the individual pixel structure, and I immediately noticed the "dancing pixels". Coincidentally (?), the threshold (for my V10, at least) turns out to be the exact point where the BTB bar in the pluge pattern disappears (brightness = 70), and the difference is significant. I can also see why the MLL is artificially inflated above that point.

http://www.golombhonik.com/news/detail.php?ID=1025

Here is a link to one of the attorneys representing the plaintiffs.

http://www.hughsnews.ca/class-action...isplays-003120

Oops, I forgot this one too... Didn't know if I could edit the above post with a 2nd link so I put it here...

As with any exhibition display; you need to consider that it'd have been run on very high contrast/brightness etc settings which, will have not only aged the set faster but more importantly mask the black levels in a typically brightly lit shop. Unfortunately the only way you'll be able to judge the set's black levels etc. would be at home in more natural lighting and/or a darkened room. Plus, and pertinent to this thread, unless you have measuring tools at home or had owned the set you have no first hand way of telling if the set has suffered a rise.
If you're happy with your current set, it may be worth waiting a few months as new Panasonic models will be appearing and you may get a deal on a 20 series which may prove a safer bet to the 10 series as the rise is supposed to be less severe to the 10's - note I say supposed...

My blacks are getting worse and worse

I would very much be interested in this, too. Is it fairly certain that a new A board and a reset would return the tv to the out of box black levels?

And if I were to then advance the internal clock to 2,000 hours, would I be able to prevent any further rise?

Thanks for any input...

Ive done the vr600 adjustment at first it didnt seem to do nothing however after a few power ups and watching my blacks are twice as good as before the adjustment.

Thanks you very much for replay!, Yesterday I pull the trigger with my credit card, I watched the exhibition T.V. and blacks are OK!, I''l take the risk, and hope that in home the black looks the same. I want a Big HDTV!

guys, how you are measuring this black level ? at dimmed pixels or one step above ?

Pretty much. A few owners owners have had A-boards replaced which has brought back the original black level. A repair technician advised me that resetting the firmware on the A-board will restore original black level too.


I highly doubt it. Several people (including myself) have tried manipulating the clock in various ways but nothing has ever come of it.

Not to mention nobody has ever found where clock values exist in a v10 yet either.

Clock values are line 500 in a 50 V10,

Times on=XX
Minutes=YY
Hours=ZZ

XX 00 00 00 YY 00 ZZ 00

Have you publicly shared this information before? Nobody else on this board had that knowledge. A bunch of us took hours and hours looking though data all through the service menu and found nothing.

How did you find this out?

For what its worth, I checked the lsi data, everything, peaks, ect. Line 500 produced nothing resembling my clock hours or anything of the sort. What section were you referring to?

Have you tried lowering both the vr600 and vr601 pots at the same time?

I just switched my display back to Vivid mode (from a custom calibrated one with I1)...

blacks are "INFINITE"... har har.... but a lot deeper than custom mode -- and the picture has pop.

I remember trying that mode. all it did was cut most of the power going to the pixels so they didn't emit much if any light. Only worked when the picture was completely black though. If something came on the screen it lit up and the black turned dark gray.

Yep. I've even tried lowering VSUS too, no effect on MLL.



I'm starting to think you might be right about that. Googling "panasonic serial commands" returns some documents for panasonic plasma and projectors describing how to send raw serial commands. No mention of any panasonic software controlling it all. Probably all we need is the document for the 2009 models which lists all the commands and what they do. Maybe there is a command for resetting the firmware to its original condition.

ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasoni...rolcommand.pdf

Maybe VPF: DEL ???

Well...it seems to be related to deleting a picture profile. It looks like the vx100 is able to store 16 different picture profiles and I would guess those save/load/delete commands are for managing them.

I'm betting there are more commands than are in that document, probably low level adjustments that only the technicians would know about.

I am curious. Has anyone been able to demonstrate any measured change in black level after putting a decent number of hours on the VT25?

I just found a page that did hex translation, and searched the peak till I found a line that had all three. Make sure to translate your hours to hex. I just posted cause yesterday you mentioned that no one knew what line it was.

If anyone else can verify this, I'll reset this thing tonight. No doubt about it. At the moment, I have 384:20 count: 163 - what would that translate to?

So I should have a 180 an a 14 in there somewhere...

That was it. You were right. Its was line 500 of LSI(peaks)

Thanks a million man. we'll see if this does anything.

Here's a nice link for converting hex all you kids. lol

http://www.subnetonline.com/pages/co...bin-to-dec.php

Hi, I've been watching this thread for well over a year now. I have a 42" pz800 which of course has suffered from the black level rises so much that I lowered my brightness level to 45 in THX mode. Last night I turned it on and found it to be far too dark to watch and had to return the level to 55. I'm not sure how many hours I have but it's got to be around 3000 (I can't remember how to check on this model and don't have the energy to find out again). Maybe Panasonic's statement that black levels will stabilize over time is true? All I know is that my levels have noticeably improved and I'm gonna throw in the Dark Knight tonight. All hope may not be lost.

Never seen the interface but I'd assume you need to convert from hex to decimal. It'd be...


900 hours 32 minutes, and you've power cycled 355 times.

edit NM, i see you already have it. And you needed to translate the other way I assume.

I have to agree with this statement. I have not been on here as much anymore to try to not think about this issue. I remember back last winter that I could notice the level rising but not enough to really affect my viewing experience. I now have a ton of hours on this TV and the blacks look perfect and spot on compared to that 600- 1200 hour mark. I watched pandorum in the dark and it looked as great as the TV did when i opened it. Its not JET black but no grey at all...

Kudos Rpresner!

Thanks to BruZZi I was able to get the counts. See if you can make any sense of this 2759hrs 991. Nothing makes sense anymore.