Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 32

thanks for the info, it seems we share the same values with the new A-Board.

Warm
R-CUT 80
G-CUT 80
B-CUT 80
R-DRV FC
G-DRV F0
B-DRV A1

Normal
R-CUT 80
G-CUT 80
B-CUT 80
R-DRV FC
G-DRV F8
B-DRV D9

Would also like to mention that if you didn't already have the fixed THX mode you might want to check if it is fixed now.

So with these settings do you still have the green/yellow tint in skin color?
I've been using Normal mode in THX for a while, sometimes Warm1, depending on the material I am watching. Also increased color from 50 to 55 and changed tint to -3 and have pretty good none yellowish skin color. I like the gamma best on THX.

The A-Board replacement fixed the THX Mode on my set, i made a post about it on the THX Issues thread, you might want to check it out.

Are you certain this is the case? This may be a difference between Panasonic and Pioneer plasmas but when my 500M undergoes the power-on black level to minimum luminance transition on a blank input it actually stops one gradation short of mll. If I switch back and forth between a blank input and a black jpeg via HTPC the jpeg is significantly darker.

come on guys we dont care about THX fix here

Yes, the G10 displays MLL on a blank input.

This is what i have been trying to say. The black level you get on a blank input is the darkest shade of black your set can do.

I just discovered this myself, very curious. With an all black jpg, in Vivid mode it is completely dark. On any other setting it's glowing dark gray. Vivid is the only way I've been able to get my 54" V10 to display the deep black level.

With a blank input screen, it is the same behavior...
Vivid = completely dark
Custom = glowing gray

Before finding this out tonight, I was considering contact tech support regarding the increase black level "bug". It's reassuring to know the panel is actually capable of black levels this low, but can any pros out there enlighten us as to what specifically about Vivid might be different than Custom?

So the V10 is exhibiting this problem too? That's a real shame, as I had pretty much decided to pull the trigger on one after Christmas. As things stand, I will probably wait until Panasonic can isolate and resolve this issue.

Could you take a picture of it to see the difference?

10-21-09:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post17391653

Larry

Mine is not confirmed with a meter, just suspected. Sure wish I would have paid attention to the black levels when I first purchased it to compare.

Don't want to discourage you from buying b/c I really can't say with certainty.

Here's with Custom
Attachment 161738

Here's with the same jpeg in Vivid
Attachment 161737

Quite obvious. Thanks Larry for that old post, might just be the infinite blacks feature. Seems like with a jpg, this feature wouldn't be active though.

I am not getting those same results when using a jpeg or blank input. When i switch from vivid to standard or custom, the blacks look the same for me. Though my black is not pitch black like it is in your Vivid setting, but nothing like your custom setting either.

Another thing i notice is right now i am watching a movie with the bar. when i first starting watching the movie, the bars looked a bit brighter but after a few minutes the bars are close to being as black as the bezel. This is in a dark room setting. If i click to a no input. I can see the black bars being darker than the area with the pic. almost as if the black has settled in and darkened since it is receiving no image? Make sense, not sure if i am explaining myself correctly.

I no one thing for sure, don't go looking at the Kuro Picture thread cause it will make us really think our blacks are bad

I am not seeing this at all. I set it to both no input signal and sd card black jpeg. all the picture setting exhibit the same black and glow. Does it activate after a certain amount of time?

Yet all their 08 TVs did the same thing. 85U/800/850 all did the same thing in vivid mode. Not really a new feature.

Add another to the measured black level increase. Admittedly I'm using a Spyder2, which is supposed to be really bad at black measurements. But when I got the set it would measure .009-.010. I've put around 200-250 hours on it now, and just did measurements last night. It's now around -015-.017. Very disappointing.

Have you noticed this in your regular viewing also? Can you see the difference by eye when viewing dark scenes?

I started reading this thread while I was waiting for my set to be delivered, so I've been closely watching the black levels. I thought they look bad when watching Cloverfield last night, so I remeasured them. Honestly, I don't think I would have noticed if I hadn't read this thread and been really looking for it. Sometimes ignorance really is bliss.

That is really true. I'm convinced my set doesn't have this problem. I love the way the pic looks and though my top and bottom black bars are black, they are not the same shiny black as the bezel which i expected. If it were to be that black, than we would be like Kuro blacks no?

I wonder if the auto contrast feature is causing your black level issues. There is a sensor in front the tv on the G10 that senses ambient light and adjust the contrast accordingly if you have that feature on(i haven't read the whole thread so if this has been mentioned sorry).

I think my set is good to go on black levels and the thx issue. Mine was built Sept 2009 with 1.28 firmware.

I do notice when I switch to an input with no source it doesn't seem to be as dark as the display can go. When watching movies or tv the blacks are inky.

I wonder if folks are over analyzing and "creating" an issue where there is not one.

It is definitely not causing mine. I have CATS turned off.

I know this is the G10 thread, but my brand new S1's overall black darkness seems...off?

Here's a post in the S1 thread w/ pics. Was I expecting too much? Honestly, it doesn't look much better than the Samsung 40B530 LCD it replaced. (as far as overall blackness) FWIW, the black level does not change regardless of input or no signal. It's always sorta gray.

Which image settings are you using (bright, contrast, etc...)?

Honestly, it doesn't really matter what image settings or inputs I'm using. The black level seems the same across all of them. But what I settled on for the movie was:

Onkyo 720p or 1080i (both showed issue)
Color settings Full RGB, RGB, Component (all showed issue)
Connected via HDMI

Standard and Cinema both set to:
Contrast: 50
Brightness: 45
Color: 50
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 50
Color Temp: Normal
Black ??: Light (dark crushed details, but did nothing for the overall black level)

Everything else was set to off or not available to be tweaked. I know I selected "home use" when the setup screen prompted me, but I'm tempted to do that again. It just doesn't look anything near what I expected. The "glow" seems greater than my 40B530.

I think you'd be the first to report an elevated black level right out of the box, but we still don't know for sure what causes this issue so there's nothing to say that can't happen.

The black level of your S1 in those photos looks a lot like my old 9UK (2006 Panasonic). I couldn't wait to get rid of it. I'd exchange that S1 if you have the opportunity to do so.

It's brand new, just picked up from Sears. They have a bunch in the area and I've got 30 days so no worries. Even w/ the black level problems, I'm THOROUGHLY enjoying MW2 on this thing! Also, screw all the slides and watching movies in zoomed mode...I can't do it, lol. I guess I'll be the ultimate IR tester here.

I'm going to a buddy's soon to compare his 85 from last year. Then I'll have him come here and we'll figure something out.

I posted last week that I had noticed my black levels increasing, and that by doing the reset on my tv restored my black levels. Well last night it seems that my black levels reverted back to the higher level. Well I did the reset again this morning and my black levels are back to a very dark level. Its very noticable when the black levels change. The best way I can explain it is that the user controls have little impact on your picture when the black levels elevate. The picture has a slight washed out look. For example, on my directv , when i hit info, and the description comes up, the blues look darker when the black levels are correct, and when they elevate, is a lighter shade of blue . Wouldnt this have to be a software issue since the reset has worked twice now ? The next time it elevates, I plan to do a service call, and do the reset in front of a technician. I will try to grab some pictures, so when it does elevate again, I can post the difference. I was looking at a blank input before the reset, and it was a grey black, after the reset, blank input is much blacker.