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Can you smell what Brando's cooking!? - Page 3

post #61 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by majestik6 View Post

I'd really love to drag my Summas to an audio show and a/b them against some of these new designs. They're not the easiest thing to transport, but it would be fun to compare.

On the other hand, a lot of this is academic. I'm very happy with my purchase, and listen to them for hours on end, day in and day out.

congrats. what are you running for subs under the summas?
post #62 of 603
chirp rates appear to depend on temperature. i wonder if the same is true for frequency.

http://www.utdanacenter.org/mathtool...e/crickets.pdf
post #63 of 603
Great. I may aquire the other driver anyway, but I am sure other DE 250 owners will be glad to hear that with a little tweaking, it will work here. Killer cabinet work by the way.

russell50
post #64 of 603
If you start another thread elsewhere on the two way waveguide speaker, please advise. Hopefully my waveguides will be here soon.

Russell50
post #65 of 603
Brandon, what kind of all-weather longevity does the DE-160 have, if any?
post #66 of 603
Thread Starter 
So cabinet work is done for the BBV2 and I'm finishing the No Quarter cabs now. Paint is done and it looks beautiful! I'm also finishing up the extendable stand with lazy susan top. Haven't decided how fine I'll mark the angles yet. But this will help me take the design portion to a new level as I can do quite good polars now of complete speakers. Crossovers will be developed soon now that woodwork is done.

Russell when I get to the point of publishing the design I'll post a build thread and link it here. I'm also going to post the design on my Soma Sonus site. I started a business by that name so I can get wholesale accounts and write off the expenses from taxes. So if you order the parts from PE in the "where did you here from us?" drop down I think you can hit other and type in Soma Sonus. I would appreciate since that will help me negotiate with them to stock the DE160 and maybe even the QSC horn if they see there is a popular project with them that is making sales. It would be nice if people only had to go to one spot to get all this stuff.

Looney I can't answer that, but they are made for the outdoors same as any pro driver.
post #67 of 603
Thread Starter 
So what the heck is going here? I'm measuring the BBV2's with them mounted to my big test baffle to simulate the on-wall response. There will be a dip associated with the delayed signal from the big baffle due to the speaker baffle being about 3" (TM) or 3.5" (MTM) forward of the big baffle surface. This is what I get:



That dip at 675hz is NOT the dip I was expecting, it is far too low. This the TM shown, the deeper MTM is about 600hz. So it is not a defective driver. I messed with the gate also thinking maybe it was slightly too long and allowing a room reflection. Not that. It also shows up off axis. The boxes are stuffed heavily and even though the internal dimensions are far too small for a 675hz dip I took out the stuffing to see what would happen. All it did was cause a wiggle around the expected 2khz area. The wavelength is 20" and 22.5" and no dimension matches that, or 1/2 or 1/4 that I can see. Overall dimensions of the boxes are 4 3/8" x 7" (TM) and 4 3/8" x 10 1/2" (MTM).

What do you guys think?
post #68 of 603
Thread Starter 
Think we have the dip solved. This is one benefit of measuring in the intended application (on wall) since you can see what really happens and how to correct for it.
post #69 of 603
Brandon do you have the data behind your measurement plots? I would like to download that data so I can import the measurements into crossover software.

I also ordered 2 Hypex AS2.100 amps and the software used to design the crossovers in them lets me import the data.
post #70 of 603
Thread Starter 
I can send you text files I guess. For it to work you'll have to understand my measurement conditions and I'll have to understand what that software you have does.

Does it just import response files or can it import the original impulse data too? If it does measurements it probably can but if is just a crossover response modeler it probably can't. What is the software?
post #71 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by augerpro View Post

I can send you text files I guess. For it to work you'll have to understand my measurement conditions and I'll have to understand what that software you have does.

Does it just import response files or can it import the original impulse data too? If it does measurements it probably can but if is just a crossover response modeler it probably can't. What is the software?

Its the Hypex Filter Designer software V1.2

http://www.hypex.nl/

I havent downloaded or opened it actually but I read through the manual for the AS2.100. It looks like it just wants response data, it might be similar to how calibration data looks ( a text file with frequences and +/- dB)
post #72 of 603
Ok, my waveguides arrived yesterday, surprisingly nice for under 8 bucks.
Didnt get a chance to play with them, the mounting plate is so thick the existing screws on my DE 250s arent long enough to go through and leave enough to get a nut screwed on too........ Off to lowes for longer screws, studs or whatever!

Russellc
post #73 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

I also ordered 2 Hypex AS2.100 amps and the software used to design the crossovers in them lets me import the data.

That looks really cool! Only problem I can see is that (right now) at least there's a lot less power than the Crown XTi1000 and greater cost. But for many the convenience of not dealing with mixing "pro" and "home" equipment, to say nothing of being able to hide the amps inside the speakers, might make it worth it. If my next system is active, the ability to biamp without sticking new boxes in the room would lead me towards these or a similar solution.
post #74 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

That looks really cool! Only problem I can see is that (right now) at least there's a lot less power than the Crown XTi1000 and greater cost. But for many the convenience of not dealing with mixing "pro" and "home" equipment, to say nothing of being able to hide the amps inside the speakers, might make it worth it. If my next system is active, the ability to biamp without sticking new boxes in the room would lead me towards these or a similar solution.

The Xti does not have the crossover functionality we need in our Main speakers (correct?) so Im not sure how it could be used as part of any active setup.

I already have the DCX2496 + amps solution. Im just looking to try other alternatives, one being the removal of my amps in my rack and also removing the "pro" parts of my system to see if there is a difference.
post #75 of 603
XTI have crossovers high/low + EQ. Pretty neat computer application that you can use to configure multiple amps at a time.

http://www.crownaudio.com/bandmanager.htm

post #76 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by byrne View Post

XTI have crossovers high/low + EQ. Pretty neat computer application that you can use to configure multiple amps at a time.

http://www.crownaudio.com/bandmanager.htm

I know it has basic subwoofer stuff but it does not do nth order crossovers, LR, BW, Bessel, etc. does it?

Of course this is all OT now since we do not need any power when we are building speakers that are 95dB sensitivity.
post #77 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

I know it has basic subwoofer stuff but it does not do nth order crossovers, LR, BW, Bessel, etc. does it?

Of course this is all OT now since we do not need any power when we are building speakers that are 95dB sensitivity.

OT for sure but would be fun to do a totally active crossover system.

There are a few crossover types. They also include a demo of the software when you download the application.
LL
post #78 of 603
Crossovers aren't enough. You need some EQ too, at a minimum a couple of shelving filters for CD compensation and baffle step. Brandon's going to publish his passive transfer functions (freq vs dB) so those using a DCX or similar can duplicate what he's doing.
post #79 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by catapult View Post

Crossovers aren't enough. You need some EQ too, at a minimum a couple of shelving filters for CD compensation and baffle step. Brandon's going to publish his passive transfer functions (freq vs dB) so those using a DCX or similar can duplicate what he's doing.

Would the following work or the DCX be a better choice?

The eq looks like it has two shelf filters + 6 input eq filters + 8 output eq filters per channel?

Input EQ
http://www.crownaudio.com/images/pro...er/InputEQ.jpg

Output EQ
http://www.crownaudio.com/images/pro...r/MasterEQ.jpg
post #80 of 603
Ah okay, it looks like the Crown has everything you need.
post #81 of 603
Thread Starter 
That Hypex looks pretty cool. Should have all you need too including (one?) PEQ per band. Does the Crown have any PEQ's?
post #82 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by byrne View Post

Would the following work or the DCX be a better choice?

The eq looks like it has two shelf filters + 6 input eq filters + 8 output eq filters per channel?

Input EQ
http://www.crownaudio.com/images/pro...er/InputEQ.jpg

Output EQ
http://www.crownaudio.com/images/pro...r/MasterEQ.jpg

Thanks, I never new it did LR8, etc.

I never considered it for a passive design before so its cool it does more then I thought it did but how can I EQ 2-way mains with one Xti2000? Im thinking I would still need 2 xti2000s since each channel can only handle one driver. If one is needed its not a bad alternative.
post #83 of 603
Yup the Hypex looks like it will do everything too. I think it has 12 biquads for each channel that can be used for crossovers, PEQ, shelving, whatever. You can import an impulse response for each driver as a text file and work from there. It's not as full-featured as SE or LspCAD but it looks like it will get the job done IF you know what you're doing.

Gut feeling, the Hypex probably has lower noise and distortion (Bruno's pretty fanatical about that stuff) but the Crowns have much more power.
post #84 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

I already have the DCX2496 + amps solution. Im just looking to try other alternatives, one being the removal of my amps in my rack and also removing the "pro" parts of my system to see if there is a difference.

There will be a clear difference, which will be a clear improvement if your rack is visible and/or you have other stuff you want to put there: you'll have more space in your rack!

Otherwise, assuming the same transfer function from the processing, expecting a sonic difference (assuming your speakers are efficient enough that you don't "need" the extra headroom) strikes me as somewhere between folly and delusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

I never considered it for a passive design before so its cool it does more then I thought it did but how can I EQ 2-way mains with one Xti2000? Im thinking I would still need 2 xti2000s since each channel can only handle one driver. If one is needed its not a bad alternative.

You could use 1...but that would require a simple passive crossover in the speaker, which you could supplement with the amp's EQ.

Each Hypex plate amp would be the replacement for one XTi box. (The XTi2000 sounds like overkill for mains, especially since one would need three for an active drive 2-way front stage!) I wish Crown did a 6-channel XTi-series amp. They have an 8-channel amp in another series with the same processing, but it's a lot more expensive than four XTi1000's.
post #85 of 603
Oh, and something I meant to write long ago: that No Quarter, besides being tastefully named, looks spectacular. I especially like the exposed ply on the roundovers. A well-designed (from a sonic perspective) speaker needn't be ugly.
post #86 of 603
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the complement You might be disappointed to know the ply edge of the baffle is now covered by paint...but it still looks good!!

BTW tomorrow I'll get some baffle/box info posted for those who have parts and are ready to start building.
post #87 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by augerpro View Post

Thanks for the complement You might be disappointed to know the ply edge of the baffle is now covered by paint...but it still looks good!!

BTW tomorrow I'll get some baffle/box info posted for those who have parts and are ready to start building.

More pics please

My inspirations are dwindling and I already may a horrible mistake last night with my router cuts so I need a little visual on how people do things correctly.
post #88 of 603
Brandon, how are you building your ports on your waveguide designs?
post #89 of 603
Thread Starter 
What did you mess up?

I'm using a 4" Precision Port.
post #90 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by augerpro View Post

What did you mess up?

I'm using a 4" Precision Port.

I cut my holes for the TD12 to wide...Im using a 1/2" router bit instead of a 1/4" router bit and I didnt adjust for the difference. I just added another 3/4" baffle and routed again...no big deal the speakers are now 12 3/4" deep and will have tripled up baffles.


Thanks for posting about the 4" port, Noah already recommended them my thread. Im going to go with PVC and just routing a 3" hole flared out of my box side. I want a smooth finish with no plastic port seems.
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