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"Beginner's Delight" DIY Screen Paint - Page 5

post #121 of 154
11/12/10 at 2:52pm
remove - wrong forum
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post #122 of 154
11/12/10 at 4:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jklas65 View Post

Thanks for the reply MM

To questions I have yet,

What is going to be the main difference/advantages between going with SF vs. RS-maxxMudd.

The other question is what is going to be the main affect or how do I choose to go with SF 1.0 vs. 2.0 vs. 3.0 vs. 4.0. I understand that the number is the number of oz. of colerant that is put into the mixture - could you suggest one.

Thanks again

These questions are best suited on that thread or in a PM. Just easier for peeps to stay on topic.
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post #123 of 154
11/14/10 at 1:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jklas65 View Post

Thanks for the reply MM

To questions I have yet,

What is going to be the main difference/advantages between going with SF vs. RS-maxxMudd.


The other question is what is going to be the main affect or how do I choose to go with SF 1.0 vs. 2.0 vs. 3.0 vs. 4.0. I understand that the number is the number of oz. of colerant that is put into the mixture - could you suggest one.

Thanks again


Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperactiveme View Post

These questions are best suited on that thread or in a PM. Just easier for peeps to stay on topic.

The Ritalin Kid is right....

I tried to steer you to creating a Thread of your own so as to not load this one up with suggestive content than might steer others not needing so much of an advanced solution and it's type of results away from such a simple solution.

Wouldn't wanna do that! I'll ask the Moderator to excise these last few posts, so that no one has a "Hissy".

Send me a PM if you like.

MMan.
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post #124 of 154
11/24/10 at 11:36am
New to AVS and want to know if adding Aluminum Powder (Black Widow) changes the base paint color. I'm afraid that if I choose a neutral gray and add Aluminum, my tint will darken.

p.s. I'm using a DELL S300wi projector which specs say is 2200 Lumens in basement with hardly any ambient light.

Thanks
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post #125 of 154
11/25/10 at 5:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimtsi View Post

New to AVS and want to know if adding Aluminum Powder (Black Widow) changes the base paint color. I'm afraid that if I choose a neutral gray and add Aluminum, my tint will darken.

p.s. I'm using a DELL S300wi projector which specs say is 2200 Lumens in basement with hardly any ambient light.

Thanks

Yes, it will, and push into Blue as well. To effectively use BW you must use the prescribed Base called "PPG 'Voice of Color' Bermuda Beige" and add the AAA to the ratio of 4:1 paint to AAA.

But again...another "OT" subject on a thread dedicated to the simplest of solutions. Try posting your query on a dedicated Thread.
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post #126 of 154
12/18/10 at 1:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler View Post

Tangled Cable,

Given your PLV-Z3, which produces 300-400 lumens when optimised, and a 97" screen, I would not go with too dark a gray.

I would use the Behr ULTRA Interior Flat paint # 1750. Get it tinted as follows:

~N8.5 DIY Tint {Medium Gray}

Quart Custom Tint
Behr UPW 1750
048 Lamp Black
011 Brown Oxide
005 Medium Yellow

Gallon Custom Tint
Behr UPW 1750
192 Lamp Black
043 Brown Oxide
019 Medium Yellow

You should mix it 4 parts paint to 1 part Minwax Satin Polycrylic. Be sure to mix the polycrylic well in its own can before measuring it out to for mixing with the paint.

What are you currently using for a screen, white?

Tiddler, I bought everything and am getting ready to paint. One more question--the Behr ULTRA Interior Flat paint # 1750 says that it has primer in it. I'm painting on drywall--do I still need to prime?
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post #127 of 154
12/18/10 at 1:48pm
Never mind, Tiddler. I realized that since I'm going to be diluting the paint with the Poly, I should prime anyway.

What about cleaning the drywall first? I was just going to vacuum it unless you think I should do more than that ...
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post #128 of 154
12/18/10 at 2:14pm
Thread Starter 
I would check the wall for any imperfections. If there are any fix them by sanding or filling. I usually wipe down the wall with a damp cloth before painting. If painting a previously painted wall I usually wash down the wall with a mix of white vinegar and water. I can't remember the recommended mix ratio. I think something like 1 part vinegar to 2 parts water.
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post #129 of 154
12/26/10 at 9:42am
so if i add poly to my scorpion N8 mix , this will bring the gain up ?
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post #130 of 154
1/1/11 at 1:10pm
Tiddler! I finally managed to paint my screen with the recipe you gave me. It looks fantastic! Almost like I put a new bulb in. I still have some issues with the image but that has everything to do with my projector and nothing to do with the screen.

Thanks so much. You made a big improvement in my home theater.
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post #131 of 154
1/15/11 at 2:01pm
oh masterful tiddler... in anticipation for star wars coming out on blu ray i wanna try and up my screen make it like new right now im throwing a 176" image from a mits hc5000 about 15 feet back on "low" lamp mode and the walls are BLACK and soo is the room was wondering what you would reccommend for me? a light gray? or something more drastic? any info would be a GREAT HELP oh masterful one
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post #132 of 154
1/15/11 at 7:19pm
Can't you guys add the names of the Behr paints? Too late for me, i just went in and bought a can of "Anonymous" grey
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post #133 of 154
1/17/11 at 10:19am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingcarcas View Post

Can't you guys add the names of the Behr paints? Too late for me, i just went in and bought a can of "Anonymous" grey

We were not able to find any Behr tints that were neutral. That is why the tint formulas were provided in the second post of this thread.
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post #134 of 154
4/8/11 at 6:03am
Thread Starter 
I see a lot of posters looking for a good beginner's mix. This thread not only describes a very easy to implement mix and application but also a very effective screen paint solution.

All the information and instructions start at Post #1.

If you need a some convincing then checkout these posts by biglyle and bud16415:

biglyle 1
biglyle 2
biglyle 3

bud16415 also had some interesting comments.

biglyle's response to bud16415
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post #135 of 154
4/8/11 at 10:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler View Post

I see a lot of posters looking for a good beginner's mix. This thread not only describes a very easy to implement mix and application but also a very effective screen paint solution.[/url]

Todd
Thanks for reopening the thread for the newcomers. I review the new threads every morning and see a lot of newcomers looking to get started. Actually the information you linked is probably even better now, with each new generation of projectors the stats seem to get higher in CR and brightness while the price point drops. I mention price because as projectors become more affordable I see more and more people attempting to use them in less theater like rooms. Brighter, more CR, ambient light all bid well for these simple neutral grays with poly mixtures that seem to never get any press coverage anymore.
I remember how we also always reminded people how important controlling the room environment was. Light control and room colors play as big a part as projector and screen, something I don’t seem to read as much about on ether of the two screen forums, that I used to.
Lastly something in the posts you link I never hear mentioned these days, and in rereading biglyle's comments it rang true once again that illusive front projection quality we could never measure but once seen you know it's what you want. I may have been first to described it as an open window and others use the term immersion etc. But the true testimony to it is I don’t think biglyle ever painted a screen again after trying hundreds. Hope he's still just sitting there going "WOW". ........
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post #136 of 154
4/8/11 at 11:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post


I remember how we also always reminded people how important controlling the room environment was. Light control and room colors play as big a part as projector and screen, something I don’t seem to read as much about on ether of the two screen forums, that I used to.


Hi Bud,

I really think that if you indeed are reviewing the Threads or posts that newcomers put up about FP that you could not possibly miss the fact that every single response given by myself and other active responders (...and that counts for quite a few if not almost all such requests involving FP & DIY screens...) that Room Colors (Walls-Ceiling-Floors) Lighting design (...or existing conditions...) seating distance, and viewing habits are always of paramount priority and the need to consider the most ideal possible parameters of such are expressed in no uncertain terms.

It's a Given that such must be considered, as to be able to determine what is the most advantageous choice for a given circumstance, be it advanced DIY Screen or Basic.

While some few newcomers who have recently completed screens and who have stepped up to offer their own helpful hand to others might overlook such...usually, one of the active Members involved to "Day to Day" responding to requests will always pop in to pro-offer such sage advice. Honestly...I cannot recall any member being left in the dark (...horrible pun that... ) about those all important issues. I do however see many who cannot accommodate following such advice, and for those individuals, they need all the more leeway built into the PJ/Screen combination they can garner. More than anything else....thats where all out most invaluable expertise and advice comes into play.

As for some other Forum....now who could that possibly be?

AVS DIY Screens is the "Bomb" and all anyone needs to refer to accomplish DIY Screen making at any given level.

Of an absolute certainty, 2000 lumen PJs w/50K Contrast and excellent Color certainly has made all our jobs quite a bit easier...and allows for much greater choice for the aspiring DIY Screen maker.

BTW, have you noticed how much more evenly distributed this Thread's listed Poll results have become?
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post #137 of 154
6/27/11 at 4:04pm
I painted a "beginner's delight" screen last weekend. The base paint was 1qt behr 4850 UPW with the N8 tint (in 384ths). Then I added the 8oz minwax satin polycrylic. We used a porter cable HVLP spray gun to apply the paint. We thinned it out using a few ounces of water.

Very smooth finish using the paint sprayer. Easy to apply. We did several coats/passes and still have half the mixture left.

Looks nice for a quick and easy DIY screen. Blacks are good even with some ambient light.
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post #138 of 154
6/27/11 at 5:57pm
Awesome! Im still rocking mine and think the trouble for the other alternatives are for serious room corrections.

I skipped the poly last time around though.
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post #139 of 154
6/27/11 at 8:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperactiveme View Post

Awesome! Im still rocking mine and think the trouble for the other alternatives are for serious room corrections.

I skipped the poly last time around though.

Wrongful assumption.

Greatly increased ability to watch images in ambient light is of course the primary reason many choose the advanced DIY paint schemes, however the same properties that allow for such also provide absolutely incredible images, detail, color vibrancy, and enhanced Contrast...all at a level that a simple Gray w/Poly cannot hope to achieve. Dark room viewing has been compared to having a giant 100" plus Backlit LED/LCD Flat panel.

You are what you eat...and your screen will depend entirely upon what you decide to feed it.
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post #140 of 154
6/28/11 at 6:26am
Not again. I'm pretty sure ambient light is room correction. My room is dark and my screen is perfect as is.

There should be more talk about projector calabration to improve PQ than screen paint. Certainly never mentioned after the paint treatment either
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post #141 of 154
6/28/11 at 7:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Wrongful assumption.

Greatly increased ability to watch images in ambient light is of course the primary reason many choose the advanced DIY paint schemes, however the same properties that allow for such also provide absolutely incredible images, detail, color vibrancy, and enhanced Contrast...all at a level that a simple Gray w/Poly cannot hope to achieve. Dark room viewing has been compared to having a giant 100" plus Backlit LED/LCD Flat panel.

You are what you eat...and your screen will depend entirely upon what you decide to feed it.

IronForge & hyperactiveme
Congrats on building yourselves a simple effective screen that improves your viewing experience to a level that has you reporting into the forum letting others know this doesn't have to be a difficult task to undertake or an expensive one and allows for some good old DIY pride once completed.

There is nothing to say that with your screen given enough lumens and a proper shade of gray you also won't be garnered in praise such as having a "compared to having a giant 100" plus Backlit LED/LCD Flat panel".

As to what kind of assumptions a member here should be allowed to make, I think they should be allowed to say what they are feeling. I also agree and have explained my thoughts on the reflection of light off a passive screen surface in conjunction with room environments and projector performance. I will let his statement stand on its own merits, even though I strongly agree with him in his assumption.

As to what we feed our screens and the benefits of the feeding should be fed to the forum in threads pertaining to such foods. There are 100's of threads talking about metallic screens many more comparing in a scientific manner any improvements real or imagined that such add. Both members didn't post as to screen size or projector and didn't allude to needing any form of additional gain to their screens beyond what a simple gray in one case and a gray with poly in the other allowed.

Once again IronForge & hyperactiveme enjoy your screens and impress your guests, good job!
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post #142 of 154
6/28/11 at 7:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperactiveme View Post

Not again. I'm pretty sure ambient light is room correction. My room is dark and my screen is perfect as is.

There should be more talk about projector calabration to improve PQ than screen paint. Certainly never mentioned after the paint treatment either

hyperactiveme

I couldn’t agree more. Calabration along with room treatments should be as important as screen and projector. It is really the trilogy of the three working in unison that produce the desired results. (projector, screen & room) Given an extreme desire in any one of the three may result in radically altering the other two. For example if a huge screen is desired and the projector isn't up to the task then the only option is to have a high gain screen with a very good system of light control in the room. A similar argument could be made for altering any one of the factors.

I have always advocated examining all three in advance of doing anything and then asking yourself what is the desired environment in the room while viewing, then be realistic in your expectations. In my case I was better served with a business projector sacrificing something's in favor of lots of lumens, even though I had a 100% light controlled room. I wanted a huge screen 6 ft high and I wanted a well lit seating area. I made my compromises with a dark screen and controlling light reflected back to the screen. It’s a lot of give and take and adapting to what you have and want.
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post #143 of 154
6/28/11 at 9:25am
It does seem at times that people tend to ignore some things that are stated and only focus on the parts that help bolster their own comments. (I'm not immune either...) Worse still, some tend to make Mountains out of Molehills just to attempt to give credence to their own opinions. When that happens, who then is really to blame for cluttering up a thread with unnecessary content?

That's not my agenda. I will however feel free to respond to any post on any thread that might need responding to, and that goes especially for posts like yours Bud, one that essentially puts intentions and expressions forth that you would attribute to me, when in fact there was no such effort or intent. If my reply to such posts as yours isn't what you consider appropriate...that's almost assuredly because you intentionally tried to make it happen.

It was stated by Hyper that the "other alternatives" were for serious room corrections. (...if indeed that can be ascertained from the somewhat oblique wording...) I simply pointed out that in no manner, way or form is such "correction" the only benefit obtained from using those "other alternatives".

I did not make any mention of anything or any "other" application in particular, nor did I state that someone...anyone could not make any assumptions...right or wrong, that they feel compelled to make. So will you please stop trying to make it out to seem that was my intent. I only re-stated what a great many individuals have previously observed and related. However if the question of my statement being correct or relevant were to be reviewed by a comprehensive re-read of this thread, then Bud...and Hyper... it would become quite apparent that this thread has not seen very many if indeed hardly any such wide ranging attributes expressed by the end users on this thread.

That is not to say that the many end users of BD screens are not wholly justified in being proud of their effort and results. Certainly, well done BD screens can and do look splendid, especially with the latest PJs doing the honors. I don't see how anyone can read my comments and see anything in them that derided the DIY Screen application under discussion, they only made a "correction" of a rather limited and somewhat erroneous statement...one that I might add was not made, nor considered to be out of hand...just somewhat....wrong. Yes, I did state that a BD screen could not accomplish all the things some other applications can, but is that too obvious a point to express without it seeming an insult to those who make BD screens? I can't help but to think it is not.

Common sense and excepted knowledge SHOULD lead anyone who is not determined to ignore such input to realize that there are applications that can do more with what they receive than others. That does not mean they have to be considered above all else, but just the same they simply cannot be ignored, let alone be misjudged by those who do not opt in to do them.

I'm not excluded from being allowed to post a reply to any statement on any thread Bud, .

But that's OK. I myself have referred many DIY'ers to this Thread, and the DIY Sticky, so it just doesn't wash trying to make any claim that I do not try to fit a End User with the application best suited for them, nor that I try to interject my own preferences onto Threads such as this one. I simply state facts that experience and time has proven to be true...and if that means my post runs contrary to another Member's...well that's just they way thing are and must be.

Bud, in that respect you certainly don't seem to feel the need to restrain yourself, but I did think you were trying as of late. Really, was / is all this necessary just to make a point?
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post #144 of 154
6/28/11 at 10:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

It does seem at times that people tend to ignore some things that are stated and only focus on the parts that help bolster their own comments. (I'm not immune either...) Worse still, some tend to make Mountains out of Molehills just to attempt to give credence to their own opinions. When that happens, who then is really to blame for cluttering up a thread with unnecessary content?

That's not my agenda. I will however feel free to respond to any post on any thread that might need responding to, and that goes especially for posts like yours Bud, one that essentially puts intentions and expressions forth that you would attribute to me, when in fact there was no such effort or intent. If my reply to such posts as yours isn't what you consider appropriate...that's almost assuredly because you intentionally tried to make it happen.

It was stated by Hyper that the "other alternatives" were for serious room corrections. (...if indeed that can be ascertained from the somewhat oblique wording...) I simply pointed out that in no manner, way or form is such "correction" the only benefit obtained from using those "other alternatives".

I did not make any mention of anything or any "other" application in particular, nor did I state that someone...anyone could not make any assumptions...right or wrong, that they feel compelled to make. So will you please stop trying to make it out to seem that was my intent. I only re-stated what a great many individuals have previously observed and related. However if the question of my statement being correct or relevant were to be reviewed by a comprehensive re-read of this thread, then Bud...and Hyper... it would become quite apparent that this thread has not seen very many if indeed hardly any such wide ranging attributes expressed by the end users on this thread.

That is not to say that the many end users of BD screens are not wholly justified in being proud of their effort and results. Certainly, well done BD screens can and do look splendid, especially with the latest PJs doing the honors. I don't see how anyone can read my comments and see anything in them that derided the DIY Screen application under discussion, they only made a "correction" of a rather limited and somewhat erroneous statement...one that I might add was not made, nor considered to be out of hand...just somewhat....wrong. Yes, I did state that a BD screen could not accomplish all the things some other applications can, but is that too obvious a point to express without it seeming an insult to those who make BD screens? I can't help but to think it is not.

Common sense and excepted knowledge SHOULD lead anyone who is not determined to ignore such input to realize that there are applications that can do more with what they receive than others. That does not mean they have to be considered above all else, but just the same they simply cannot be ignored, let alone be misjudged by those who do not opt in to do them.

I'm not excluded from being allowed to post a reply to any statement on any thread Bud, .

But that's OK. I myself have referred many DIY'ers to this Thread, and the DIY Sticky, so it just doesn't wash trying to make any claim that I do not try to fit a End User with the application best suited for them, nor that I try to interject my own preferences onto Threads such as this one. I simply state facts that experience and time has proven to be true...and if that means my post runs contrary to another Member's...well that's just they way thing are and must be.

Bud, in that respect you certainly don't seem to feel the need to restrain yourself, but I did think you were trying as of late. Really, was / is all this necessary just to make a point?


I was typing my reply when hyper posted today and I was tempted to show some restraint as you have noted I have of late. But on reading his rebuttal to yours I could clearly see he was upset at your comments and your dismissing his feeling of accomplishment as I'm sure IronForge would also be feeling at finding out
("advanced DIY paint schemes, however the same properties that allow for such also provide absolutely incredible images, detail, color vibrancy, and enhanced Contrast...all at a level that a simple Gray w/Poly cannot hope to achieve.")
That pretty much says to me, I'm sure you think you are happy but actually you are not happy because you should have done an advanced screen.

I don’t consider raining on someone's parade as making a mountain out of a molehill. The thread is about Beginners Delights a simple first step that the author felt will satisfy many completely. In the case of these two screen builder it seemed to have done just that. So why take the Delight out of the "Beginners Delight".

To keep this post on topic I will again say a FP screen is a passive device. it acts on all the light striking it in the same way. There is no combination of ingredients that can be put into a paint that will simultaneously darken blacks and brighten whites. There are two basic principles that take place in these type screens one is attenuation of some light thru the part of the pigment that is dark the other is directional gain that takes light from the sides and directs it to the viewer. No light can be made by the screen and the screen can't change the actual contrast of the image. There is the most powerful way these screen work in conjunction with the projector and our eyes and that is thru how we perceive our vision. Perceived contrast is what this is mostly about and also the most complex concept for many to grasp.
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post #145 of 154
6/28/11 at 12:51pm
Thread Starter 
It is true that the addition of various metallic flakes or other types of reflective particles may have an effect on the resulting image and some people may prefer the altered results. This thread was started (by me) to promote a simple yet effective DIY screen paint solution that produces a very natural image that often invokes the "looking out an open window effect".

As far as people's reactions to your screen goes, I think they shouldn't! If the image immediately jumps out at your guest and they react to the overly vibrant or an effervescent image then you probably have not achieved the kind of natural image quality this solution produces.

It is a subtle effect that sneaks up on you. For example the other day we were watching a high definition documentary on the Rocky Mountains. At one point the view was from high up on the side of a mountain. I wanted to see what the view would be like looking down into the valley. I started to get up to go and stick my head out the window to look down into the valley. If the screen has any kind of visible effect on the image or makes it look hyper real etc. you won't get that effect.

Here is a simple test of what you may prefer. I have noticed side-by-side comparisons of a calibrated TV vs an un-calibrated are common in most Future Shops and Best Buys stores. The un-calibrated TV is usually setup in the hyper-real vivid mode. If you prefer the look of the calibrated TV then this "Beginner's DeLight" solution is for you. If you prefer the the un-calibrated image then there may be a solution out there that would better meet your desires. I am assuming you have a reasonably good quality projector that is current within the last couple of years.

There are two other advantages to this solution. The shade of this screen solution is completely variable from white to an N8 or less and has been measured to be neutral. You can also vary the amount of surface sheen introduced by the addition of the Minwax Satin Polycrylic to maximize on-axis gain if so inclined.

In my opinion the projected image should never jump out at you and make you want to exclaim "WOW!". It should draw you in and make you forget it is a projected image allowing you to immerse yourself in the story and the visual experience.

But that's just my opinion.
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post #146 of 154
8/24/11 at 3:40pm
i'm a latecomer to the DIY paint discussion, and i have a question about the poll. obviously SF and BW are more advanced DIY mixes that essentially require spraying, but i've done some searches for S-I-L-V-E-R and found nothing. is there an apocryphal thread on it, or is there something else i'm missing?

i have a runco CL-420* with a BOC screen around 100" 16:9, about 13' throw. walls are dark wood panel and the carpet is red and black. my basement was finished in the 1970s. ceiling is dropped white tile. night time performance has been very satisfactory, but day performance is barely acceptable to poor, with some notable exceptions (e.g. HDTV over the air). i would like to improve ambient/daylight performance without sacrificing too much in dark performance, which is outstanding.

i have been debating between the BD OTS + satin starting with an N8.5 base or perhaps exploring a more advanced mix like SF or BW. i have also found a commercial screen paint (paint on screen 3DHD) on ebay for a cheap-ish price ($40/quart instead of $180/quart), but reviews are limited. i know commercial paints don't really fit in any discussion category on here, and my searches have not found much positive or negative about this particular commercial paint.

perhaps DIY is the best route. so my questions are, is N8.5 a good starting place given my projector and PQ goals? will i achieve better results from my stated goals if i go to a more advanced DIY mix like SF or BW? what, if anything, can be said about the commercial paint on a strictly DIY forum? what is S-I-L-V-E-R?

thanks!
robb.

*i bought the CL-420 as a floor model from a local store. they had it marked at $990, but i offered $600 in cash and they took it! it looks phenomenal, and i got a really incredible deal on it. sure, it's not 1080P, but it's about the best $600 i could get out of projection.
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post #147 of 154
8/24/11 at 4:14pm
Answers are coming, but first I must compose myself......

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=854134
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post #148 of 154
8/24/11 at 6:12pm
thanks, MSMan! i used to live down in meridian, for what that's worth.

robb.
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post #149 of 154
9/10/11 at 6:19pm
I've been trying a gray high-contrast mix.

Rather than saturate this thread, I've started a new one over here....
A high-contrast gray screen paint.... Is it really possible?

Any help would be much appreciated!
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post #150 of 154
9/13/11 at 7:21pm
since my screen is BOC stretched over an aspen frame, i had concerns about the quality of results using rollers. i spent a very fun week reading the entire silver fire thread and thinking about the process of painting my screen. a co-worker then provided me with quite a suitable spray gun, so i decided to go with silver fire. if i'm going to spray, i may as well spray the best.

robb.
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