"Beginner's Delight" DIY Screen Paint - Page 3

Not every time, or really hardly ever for that matter, but your comments alluding to such posts as being disparaging have been becoming quite frequent.

Going fishin' again?

They aren't bitin'.

When one really considers it, the name already given this application is pretty much about the best possible handle for it. Striving to make it into something more...or else....won't change what it is and will always be. Exactly as it is named.

Thanks for the comments bud, and you are right about not sticking around, I almost did not. I did not really have much of a reason to jump back into this thread. I am happy with the results I got and can't see anything lacking in my image. Actually the reason I came back was to thank you and todd again because I am so happy with the results.

I obviously don't have any experience with any of the more advanced DIY screens so I can not say wether or not I would would pick one of them after doing a direct comparison, But at this point I don't have a reason to experiment with anything else, like I said I am very happy with the results.

I came up with a few more names to take out the negative connotation of "Beginner"

Simple delight
Simply delightful

Tiddler,

Appreciate all the detailed info in the posts from you and MississippiMan.

I am in a stuation very similar to what you addressed for BigSwifty in post #38 of this thread. (Optoma HD20...short throw).

My throw distance is actually limited even more than his due to duct work. (8') I am setting this up as basically a large screen TV replacement (72" diag at max zoom) and not so much as a dedicated theater.

Currenly the walls and ceiling are light and so I have reflection for sure, but overall I am pretty happy with it.

You recommended for the HD20 and short throw that ULTRA Exterior Flat #4850 tinted N8 without the addition of the Minwax poly should be sufficient.

My main question is whether adding at least a bit of the poly (say a 6 or 8 to 1 - paint to poly ratio) would help with the overall finish of this paint when rolled with your 2 roller method?

I have not ruled out going with a sprayer...but feel like I can certainly get good results with the roller method. Just wanted to make sure that at least a small poly addition will not make the rolled surface just that much better...or if having the extra sheen really makes it better to include none at all for this short throw config.

Edit: I purchased the N8 Behr w/4850 base, and some Minwax poly satin, but now after reading additional posts, am considering using a matte poly that I can get at a craft store. (http://www.joann.com/joann/catalog/p...RODID=prd32927) Ceramcoat Interior waterbased Matte Poly

Would this be a better option for this config to thin the paint but not add the additional sheen of the satin?



Thanks!

Thanks for the info Tiddler...it certainly helps.

When you say "I did try another brand (Varathane) that produced some poor results. The Minwax Satin Polycrylic we know works well." Do you think it had to do with the comparative clarity of the Minwax over the Varathane?

I looked at the MSDS for the Minwax & Varathane, and was surprised to see how diferent their compositions seemed to be:
Minwax Polycrylic: http://www.rockler.com/tech/RTD20000211AA.pdf
Varathane Damond Polyurethane: http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGResource...CBG&msdsprc=70

Unfortunately the MSDS for the Ceramcoat varnish was worthless since all of the ingredients were lumped into a single "proprietary" item making up 40-80% of the total. (the remainder being water)


I understand from your reply that the primary concern for the screen in this particuar application would be getting the smoothest surface possible. Fortunately the base wall is a section of brand new drywall with no seams, dips or blemishes when inspected closely, so that should help.

edit: Based on your feedback I went back to HD & got the tint modified to N7.5, used a 6:1 mix with the Minwax, and applied the first coat.

Thanks again...

"How did it turn out?"


I am pretty pleased. The blacks are definitely better with the N7.5 than they were on the sort of Beige painted wall, and I think that any added sheen from the poly is not an issue at all.

I am still trying to decide if I may try the N8 (with no Polycrylic) as I can convince myself at times that the whites are grayed down a bit with the darker screen, but when viewing a nice 1080p picture with lots of colors and some patches of white I then convince myself it was all in my head and that this looks great as is.

I still need to put the screen frame up (black velvet over 3.25" base), so may do that before playing around with the N8.

My only regret is that even tho the 2 roller technique worked like a champ...the little bit of orange peel from the original paint layer did not get removed as much as I had hoped during my wall prep. I don't think many would notice...but since I have seen it up close and personal...I know it is there.

All in all it is working great as a basement rec room TV and I appreciate all of the info available on this forum.


I'm sure I'll keep tweaking it now and then...but that is part of the fun...right?

I just got done painting my screen. I used the 1750 Behr as a base, the 8.5 formula (the lady looked at me weird when I told her what I wanted, but she figured it out eventually) WITH the Polycrylic mixed in at 4:1 (actually very slightly more than 4:1).

I poured a gallon of the paint and a quart of the polycrylic into a bucket and mixed it. I applied it using .25" nap roller and went over it with the trim roller, as per the videos here. The screen is primed cotton artist canvas. I got a great deal on an 84" wide 10 yd piece. Since my wife paints, I bought it and she'll use the extra for the next year of paintings.

The room is an unfinished basement, approximately 17' x 30' x 11'. I have seating for 19 in it (a sectional for five then two levels of platforms for some old theater chairs). I have a Panasonic AX100u with about 1000 hours on the bulb. As you can imagine, a screen that big (140"x79") needs all the help it can get. I figured I would start here and try something fancier if the results weren't good enough.

I built a quickie frame and stapled the canvas to it. With just the primed canvas, I put in Harry Potter 6, which is about as dark a movie as you can get. I took pictures before and after hoping I could quantify how much of a difference the painting made.

Then I painted it with two coats and let it dry over night. The difference to my eyes is substantial. I can see significantly more shadow detail, and the picture is definitely brighter.

Of course, the pictures didn't turn out. The paint appears to have dried nice and smooth, and I don't see any roller lines in it. Overall I am very pleased with it. I don't have a clue how much a commercial screen of that size would cost, but I have less than $100 in it, and if you factor in my wife having the canvas for her next several paintings, I'm making money off the deal.

I would definitely recommend someone else giving it a try, as I think I will just leave it this way instead of trying to find something that might be a tad bit better. It is more than adequate now...

I haven't, but am planning on doing it tonight. Its still calibrated to the old, smaller Da Lite Model C I had before we moved into this house. I'll post back with additional impressions...

I just wanted to jump in and say that I also tried this application and am simply "delighted". I have been doing ALOT of research on ways to put together an inexpensive home theater. I ended up with what some may consider marginal equipment, but after looking at alot of equipment in NUMEROUS stores including several HIGH END dedicated home theater stores, I can honestly say that my choice of projector (Optoma H31) and my "Beginner's Delight" 100" screen looks just as good if not better than most of the setups that I have seen costing hundreds if not thousands more.

I can see no pixelation to the image until I get about 6' from the screen and with the low resolution of my projector I was concerned. The image is bright and crisp even for an old projector that is used and has 2100 hrs on the bulb. I spent some time calibrating the projector and while I noticed a small gain in picture quality, I cannot say that it was an immense change. This is my first attempt at a home theater and so far I am more than just "delighted", I am quite ecstatic!! I will eventually upgrade, but in order for me to get a start in my home theater, I had to do it on the cheap.

So here are my specs for my room which is not built yet but when funds make themselves available, I will build a little at a time. Room will be 16' Wide by 24' long but I only will have a 7' 8" high ceiling so my screen size is limited. Also I have the center beam in the basement in my way so a limit of 12' roughly for throw distance so that limits my screen size as well until I can purchase a different projector with less vertical offset. Like I said, I have been to a lot of different stores and looked at a lot of equipment and can honestly say that I cannot tell much difference in the equipment compared to mine and certainly not enough to justify a $10k projector or a $3k screen. I have a discerning eye and can usually spot flaws very easily as I am a cabinet maker by trade and strive for perfection in everything I do. So far I can identify very few flaws in my choices thus far.

I ran my setup through a calibration yesterday. I'm surprised to say it was pretty close already. I'll watch a few movies over the next couple days and see if I need to adjust anything, but right now I am happy with where it is...

Just a follow-up that I did end up deciding that the N7.5 was a bit dark for my setup & taste, so I went back to Tiddlers original recommendation of N8 with no polycrilic (thinned with water). (reminder: this is a very short throw distance (~8') with the Optoma HD20)

I also made a switch from using the wall itself to a piece of Thrifty White Board. Primed then 3 coats of N8 rolled with 2 roller method. (I learned the hard way that my first coat was not thinned down quite as much as it should have been)

At any rate...I am extrmely pleased with this version and it looks even better now with the velvet covered frame installed.

I've made a few posts in other threads regarding my recent re-painting of my screen. To be as brief as possible, I had a BW screen using Auto Air Aluminum and Bermuda Beige. There is a thread somewhere comparing the different BW formulas, and unfortunately the Bermuda Beige fell close to the bottom of the pack in terms of PQ - it is too dark for my liking. To add insult to injury, my paint job which I felt was great at the time, also fell short. I could see slight roller marks and am convinced that the only way to go is spraying metallic paint.

At any rate, I finally decided to take the plunge, bought a Wagner CS Plus spray gun and painted a new screen. I did two coats of Snow Field (CIL Smart 3 Ultra Matte - N7.5), then did two more coats using 3 parts paint to 1.5 parts Minwax Satin Polycrylic. For spraying, I diluted the paint with 20% filtered water.

After calibrating using DVE Basics, I turned on The Dark Knight...and was very pleased with the results. It has been a significant enough difference that I plan on watching all my movies over again. For some reason (maybe the shimmer/sheen of the metallic paint?) it looks to me like the picture is more sharp than my previous screen. I never did like the shimmery nature of the BW screen, but if you have ambient light (not an issue for me) the metallic paint made a movie (or Rock Band ) watchable. If you have light control, however, this "beginner" screen mix is fantastic and I don't see any need to make things any more complex.

Here are two shots. The first one is after painting the screen (the top looks funny but it's just the reflections of the black tarp onto the screen), and the second is The Dark Knight. The pic is slightly overexposed on the rooftop, so chalk it up to my noobish photography skills. My screen is 143" using a BenQW5000 and a Home Theater Brothers Lens.

http://s836.photobucket.com/albums/z...t=IMG_1781.jpg

http://s836.photobucket.com/albums/z...t=IMG_1783.jpg

Which formula would be the best for my situation?

My Projector is a Panasonic PTL-200u which has a lumens rating of 700 and a contrast ratio of 700:1

The projector has approximately 3500 total hours on it. However, I currently have 354 hours on a replacement bulb.

The room can be completely light controlled, but on occasion there will be some ambient light. As of right now the walls are painted off white. I am not sure when they will get painted a darker color, but that is the plan. I will be painting a do-able board that just does not seem to be working for my PJ.

I was thinking of the N8.5 with a ratio of 3:1 with the polyclear. Does that sound correct? Should I go darker?

thanks,

Don

I forgot to mention that the projector is mounted 9' from an 83" screen.

Wow.

With that PJ and that small a screen, using the 3:1 mix at N.7.5 would be just fine, and give the Blacks on the 200 a real helping hand. Certainly no lighter than 8.0

You spray that Dog ad you'll really get bitten.

Well I am glad I posted then! I wasn't really sure which one would be best from the descriptions so thanks

Now I have to decide if I want to paint now or wait until I get some comfortable seating.

thanks again.

Thanks for all the research and details! I'm about to build a home theater in my basement, and was shocked at the prices of screens. I can understand spending $2000 on a projector, but $400+ for a white-ish board!?

I'm a total newbie as far as creating my own screens, and don't even own the projector yet, but this looks like the best option for me, since I've never sprayed before and some of the other formulas are a little more complex than I'd like. I'm going to be using a Panasonic AE4000, ceiling mounted and projecting a 16x9 120" image from about 13' away. Room is about 13 x 19, screen on the 13' wall, 8' ceilings. Room completely light controlled, but I'd like to be able to have some ambient lights on (not pointed at the screen.) I'm thinking of painting this straight onto the mudded/sanded drywall.

Some questions:
I'm thinking since this Panny isn't the brightest of the projectors, I'd be using Behr 1750 at N9 with a 4:1 Poly mix. Would this be bright enough? Would I be able to go down to a N8.5 or N8 to better handle ambient light, or do you think the projector would have trouble handling that after the first 1000 hours? I could always move down to a 110" or even 100" size (ouch) if needed, but would prefer not too.

Also, how and when are you mixing in the Poly? Straight into the can, or separate, and does it make a difference on the first coat, since that's basically primer, or just the last couple?

Would adding 10% water help to level paint after it's dried, and are there any negatives to doing that?

Thanks for the insight, I'd like to get as much of this right on the first go round as possible.

What is the best way to put a black border around the screen?

i am leaning towards a black fabric but which one and what is the best way to attach?

I went with the gray and polycrylic. Once I could finally get someone at Lowes to match the grey. I think that was the hardest part, they were able to match to a True Value grey but nothing else.

It looks great and I like it much better than the white.

I ran some calibrations (THX) but I think I went to far. Things seem blurry and I noticed I could see some horizontal lines in the picture. The lines are only there on certain shows(animated) and when they are moving. I also noticed while watching Cars that when things are panning from one scene to another it becomes what I would consider blurry and looks like lag. I do not see any issues with the PS3 games or BR movies.

Any idea on what I am seeing and how to fix it?

After years of using Do-able white board as a cheap screen for my DLP PJ's, I am now tempted to experiment with an N8 grey and Polycrylic. I don't know if I should thank or curse you guys....

Exactly my thoughts. I recently moved to a new house and the new media room is less light controlled than the previous room. My DLP projector doesn't have a large amount of contrast, so black levels could be better, especially in the new surroundings.

I won't ruin my white board either. I was thinking of painting a smaller (4'x4') section of hardboard or something and giving it a test run first.