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Dell Zino HD - New mini HTPC - Page 14

post #391 of 5037
11/18/09 at 10:05am
Yes, my receiver Logitech Z-5500 indicates Dolby Digital when I select digital input (which is optical cable from Vizio SV420XVT). I am running only HDMI cables from Revo 3610 to TV, from PS3 to TV, and from DISH DVR to TV. I also have analog from TV to Logitech receiver in case I want to use that.

I also discovered earlier this year that some blu-rays played through PS3 did not have DD 5.1 track but had DTS, so I had to enable DTS in the PS3, then it passed through the TV to the receiver and indicated DTS on the receiver.

I don't understand, the Vizio XVT series was a fairly popular TV that went on sale last August. I thought all newer TVs passed DD 5.1.

I've seen several posts here and thegreenbutton that state no TVs pass DD 5.1. Based on what I am seeing and hearing that is not true.

By the way my Revo 3610 is awesome. I'm sure these Dells will be nice but watching Star Trek last night the sound and picture were awesome. No speed issues at all with the Atom/Ion. W7MC is also nice, set up Christmas music playlist along with Pictures Play favorites of only older Christmas pictures and that works great together. Set it all up from my remote netbook through network shares. Can't do that with PS3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gearguy77 View Post

Are you able to pass copy guarded material from original retail DVD/BD?

If so your setup is out of the ordinary. It seems that most manufactures restrict the digital audio output to stereo when the original source is copy protected.

I personally ran into this limitation, and found information to be scarce.

However, below is the always reliable copy/past from the all mighty Google

VIZIO:

"When the DTV [cable/antenna] input is selected for viewing, the digital audio associated with digital programming will be available on this SPDIF Optical connector for connection to your home theater system."

"If your sound system has a SPDIF (optical) digital audio input you can connect it to the optical DIGITAL AUDIO OUT at the rear of [this TV]. This is active when receiving digital audio with the programs from the DTV/TV CABLE/ANTENNA input."

SANYO:

Dolby Digital 5.1 audio is available at the Digital Audio Output only when received as part of a Digital Antenna signal being viewed on the screen.

JVC:

No audio out on optical when using HDMI.

TOSHIBA:

The DIGITAL AUDIO OUT terminal may not output some digital audio sources because of copy restrictions.

PIONEER:

Note: When signals are input from the HDMI terminals, no signals are output from the DIGITAL OUT terminal if they are copy guarded.

SAMSUNG:

[the digital terminal] outputs stereo only from HDMI sources.

Other manufacturers will pass multichannel from the digital audio output, but it is not clear if this pertains to copy protected material.

I have a Pioneer plasma and they seem to have the strictest enforcement. The Pioneer outputs 5.1 if the tuner or analog inputs are the source but there was no audio output from HDMI sources. I ended up getting a new AVR with HDMI input.

I wish I could find an official source, but I haven't yet. So take this for what it is worth.

Java Jack has me sold. I asked the wife for the Zino for Christmas. I wonder if I should start to worry about the demand being too high. I really want to wait to read some more reviews, but I might have to have her order it earlier.
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post #392 of 5037
11/18/09 at 10:16am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSM View Post

But in general I agree that having a adequate GPU with a medium fast CPU is better than having a higher end GPU and a slow CPU, at least for HTPC use.

This is an important point that some people might be missing. With a general purpose PC, you usually want the fastest components your budget will allow to stave off the need to upgrade again for as long as possible. With HTPCs, this is not the case. What you want is the cheapest / most convenient box that will meet your requirements. The HD3200 is old, but it is capable of doing everything a HTPC requires short of 7.1 audio. If you don't need 7.1 audio now and don't foresee yourself upgrading any time in the near future, then it is good enough. Anything more is simply wasted, as you will not be taking advantage of any advanced capabilities the ION2 (or any other forthcoming technology) provides.

If you want the absolute best, then go for a custom built system with a Nvidia GT series or ATI 5000 series GPU. If you want something cheap, all the currently and soon-to-be available options do all the same basic stuff. You will not enable any huge improvements with an incremental upgrade.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

I think Clarkdale is going to be first to the market to support bitstream at some point Q1 2010, although no clue where the costs will be on that one.

The ATI 5000 series cards will do bitstreaming now. Unfortunately, they have only released high and mid tier cards so far. The cheapest version is $150 and has some pretty steep power and cooling requirements. If you want bitstreaming in a cheap SFF box, then you're right - Clarkdale will probably be the first for that.
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post #393 of 5037
11/18/09 at 10:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by candre23 View Post

The ATI 5000 series cards will do bitstreaming now. Unfortunately, they have only released high and mid tier cards so far. The cheapest version is $150 and has some pretty steep power and cooling requirements. If you want bitstreaming in a cheap SFF box, then you're right - Clarkdale will probably be the first for that.

Yeah, sorry I meant IGP bitstreaming, not with a separate GPU
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post #394 of 5037
11/18/09 at 10:36am
For those claiming that the deal is dead, try giving dell a call. I called my EPP number and was able to get the deal w/ $60 gift card.
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post #395 of 5037
11/18/09 at 10:41am
Exactly what is bitstreaming and why would one want it?
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post #396 of 5037
11/18/09 at 10:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctviggen View Post

Exactly what is bitstreaming and why would one want it?

Sending HD Audio (TrueHD, DTS-MA) untouched to a receiver for the receiver to decode. Another option to get lossless audio would be to convert the HD Audio to FLAC.
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post #397 of 5037
11/18/09 at 10:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Java Jack View Post

Since I don't work for Dell, I don't know what deals they might offer nor am I privy to anything. I have been looking on the EPP site but it is not listed there yet.

Perhaps black friday they will have something, I don't know.

I wasn't asking you necessarily; this question was directed to anyone who knew whether Dell runs deals near Christmas or not. Where I used to work, we got a flyer with special deals a few times a year, one of which was Christmas.

Since I'm no longer with that company, I was wondering if anyone knew what Dell's policies have been in the past.

I'm trying to convince the wife to get this for me for Christmas, and a slight deal would mean a lower price. which would help in her decision.
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post #398 of 5037
11/18/09 at 10:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctviggen View Post

I wasn't asking you necessarily; this question was directed to anyone who knew whether Dell runs deals near Christmas or not. Where I used to work, we got a flyer with special deals a few times a year, one of which was Christmas.

Since I'm no longer with that company, I was wondering if anyone knew what Dell's policies have been in the past.

I'm trying to convince the wife to get this for me for Christmas, and a slight deal would mean a lower price. which would help in her decision.

Best bet would be to take the wife out of the equation and buy for yourself
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post #399 of 5037
11/18/09 at 10:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcard View Post

Ready to do this, but don't even see free shipping. Don't see any available anything, no shipping, no promos, no coupons.

Are ANY discounts available at this point....am I missing something? Have to go further in the order process? Have to join a special club?

I got this offer last night via email from Dell, looks like it is still good:

http://configure.us.dell.com/Dellsto...35&lid=1305071


It has free shipping at least. It is also a slightly upgraded configuration. It comes with Win7 Home Premium, 3GB of RAM and a 320 GB HD. Not as good at the 10% promo, but decent with the free shipping.
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post #400 of 5037
11/18/09 at 10:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

Sending HD Audio (TrueHD, DTS-MA) untouched to a receiver for the receiver to decode. Another option to get lossless audio would be to convert the HD Audio to FLAC.

What happens with the current configuration? I thought this passed the audio through the HDMI output. Is this only applicable to Bluray?

I use FLAC for my CDs; it's good to see it's used elsewhere.
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post #401 of 5037
11/18/09 at 10:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

Best bet would be to take the wife out of the equation and buy for yourself

True! But she wants to feel she's getting me something for Christmas; if I buy it, she won't.
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post #402 of 5037
11/18/09 at 10:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctviggen View Post

What happens with the current configuration? I thought this passed the audio through the HDMI output. Is this only applicable to Bluray?

I use FLAC for my CDs; it's good to see it's used elsewhere.

Zino HD will pass 5.1 (DTS or Dolby Digital) over HDMI but not 7.1 (DTS Master or Dolby True HD).
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post #403 of 5037
11/18/09 at 10:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctviggen View Post

What happens with the current configuration? I thought this passed the audio through the HDMI output. Is this only applicable to Bluray?

I use FLAC for my CDs; it's good to see it's used elsewhere.

In my HTPC configuration (which cannot bitstream) the core audio (so DTS for DTS-MA or AC3 for TrueHD) is what is getting sent to my AVR. Now there have been many arguments of whether you can really hear the difference between say DTS core and DTS-MA. I honestly can't say that I can. I figure my setup is set to handle HD Audio so where possible might as well take advantage of it. Some people look at it also that if they are going to spend a lot of money on an AVR they want the AVR to handle decoding the audio since that is what its job is, not a PC.
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post #404 of 5037
11/18/09 at 10:55am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctviggen View Post

Exactly what is bitstreaming and why would one want it?

Commercial DVDs and blu-rays have audio tracks that are encoded in one of several formats created by Dolby Labs and DTS inc. Bitstreaming means passing these encoded tracks over HDMI to a receiver for decoding, instead of the PC doing the decoding and sending unencoded LPCM audio.

With 5.1 audio, it doesn't make much difference whether the PC or the receiver does the decoding. With 7.1 lossless audio on a blu-ray, it does - not because there is any difference in quality, but simply because there are no good options for real-time decoding of these new formats (Dolby TrueHD and DTS-MA) on a PC yet. So if a HTPC can't bitstream the encoded audio, you have to either transcode them to FLAC in advance, or use the older, lossy audio streams.

The reason bitstreaming is so difficult is because in their infinite wisdom, content producers added an extra layer of DRM (on top of the already-existing AACS layer) to protect the audio streams called "Protected Audio Path". Thanks to PAP, only specially certified hardware can bitstream HD audio tracks, and even then only with special software. It's a hassle all around, and it does nothing to prevent piracy, but that's the entertainment industry for you.
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post #405 of 5037
11/18/09 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by candre23 View Post

Commercial DVDs and blu-rays have audio tracks that are encoded in one of several formats created by Dolby Labs and DTS inc. Bitstreaming means passing these encoded tracks over HDMI to a receiver for decoding, instead of the PC doing the decoding and sending unencoded LPCM audio.

With 5.1 audio, it doesn't make much difference whether the PC or the receiver does the decoding. With 7.1 lossless audio on a blu-ray, it does - not because there is any difference in quality, but simply because there are no good options for real-time decoding of these new formats (Dolby TrueHD and DTS-MA) on a PC yet. So if a HTPC can't bitstream the encoded audio, you have to either transcode them to FLAC in advance, or use the older, lossy audio streams.

The reason bitstreaming is so difficult is because in their infinite wisdom, content producers added an extra layer of DRM (on top of the already-existing AACS layer) to protect the audio streams called "Protected Audio Path". Thanks to PAP, only specially certified hardware can bitstream HD audio tracks, and even then only with special software. It's a hassle all around, and it does nothing to prevent piracy, but that's the entertainment industry for you.

One thing I never quite understood, does DTS-MA always imply 7.1 (on many Blu Ray cases you will see DTS-MA advertised but also only see 5.1 advertised). Sorry for getting OT
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post #406 of 5037
11/18/09 at 11:12am
Thread Starter 
DTS-MA is capable of 7.1, but I guess there is no guarantee that they're using all 8 tracks. Just like AC3 is capable of 5.1, but there are plenty of older DVDs with 2.0 AC3 tracks because the movies were originally filmed in stereo.
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post #407 of 5037
11/18/09 at 11:14am
Thanks to anyone who can answer this:

I just read through this entire thread but I just want to make sure my assumption is correct. I went ahead and ordered the $199 base model today through dell, which includes the 2850e (1.8GHz) processor. All I am interested in doing with this machine is 1080p playback and streaming hulu,youtube etc in HD. With my configuration and the upcoming flash update, should this machine be able to handle that?
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post #408 of 5037
11/18/09 at 11:18am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spinachg View Post

I just read through this entire thread but I just want to make sure my assumption is correct.

You will definitely be able to play back 1080p files, as well as watch SD (480p or lower) streaming flash. You will probably be able to watch HD streaming flash as well, but we have to wait for ATI to sort out their drivers to know for sure. Adobe only released flash 10.1 yesterday. It's still technically in beta, and ATI's drivers are currently borked.
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post #409 of 5037
11/18/09 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by spinachg View Post

Thanks to anyone who can answer this:

I just read through this entire thread

Well... maybe not the ENTIRE thread... :P

"The base model will play your 1080p mkv files, xvid, divx, etc, all with 5.1 audio without a problem. With the flash upgrade, they will stream your hulu/youtube/netflix without problem as well."
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post #410 of 5037
11/18/09 at 11:22am
Guys,

I know this was touched on this thread but I didn't see a definitive answer. Will the Zino output DTS MA and TrueHD bitstream via HDMI? I see it will output Dolby Digital and DTS core but not sure about the HD codecs.

Thanks guys. Looks like a promising system for HTPC use.
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post #411 of 5037
11/18/09 at 11:25am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Will the Zino output DTS MA and TrueHD bitstream via HDMI?

Nope.
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post #412 of 5037
11/18/09 at 11:26am
Sorry guys.. one more question. I assume the Zino does not have IR built in? Didn't notice it in the spec sheet.
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post #413 of 5037
11/18/09 at 11:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Sorry guys.. one more question. I assume the Zino does not have IR built in? Didn't notice it in the spec sheet.

Correct, you need a USB dongle.
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post #414 of 5037
11/18/09 at 11:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by candre23 View Post

Nope.

Not a deal breaker I guess.. With the recent release of ATI 5500 series, it will be just a matter of time before that technology is scaled down to small formfactor board. (ATI 5500 card will output TRUEHD, DTS MA) in case some of you were not aware.

Tony
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post #415 of 5037
11/18/09 at 11:35am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

With the recent release of ATI 5500 series, it will be just a matter of time before that technology is scaled down to small formfactor board.

In a perfect world, ATI would get it's low-end, IGP-ready versions of the 5000 series out the door and Dell would work one into a Zino-compatible MXM card. In reality, this won't happen for quite a while, if at all. For those who absolutely need 7.1 bitstreaming, the Zino just isn't a great choice. For those that don't mind 5.1, at least there is some chance at an upgrade in the future.
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post #416 of 5037
11/18/09 at 11:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funksultan View Post

Well... maybe not the ENTIRE thread... :P

"The base model will play your 1080p mkv files, xvid, divx, etc, all with 5.1 audio without a problem. With the flash upgrade, they will stream your hulu/youtube/netflix without problem as well."

To be fair, he was asking if he could do that with the 2850 CPU. Java Jack seems to be the only one with a working Zino to test and he only had the 3250 and 6850 versions. So while the 2850 probably will be able to do all that, it is still an unknown until someone actually gets that configuration and tests it out.
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post #417 of 5037
11/18/09 at 11:57am
OK. Real time update here, still in testing.

I just downloaded our 9.11 drivers and the 10.1 flash update. It is working on Zino HD. Not sure what Anand's problem is related to, but everything is working for me. I suspect it may have to do with which plug in you download and the order in which you install them. 1st pass, it was not working. After a refresh and careful watch of install order (for example, download latest flash player before installing plug in), everything worked correctly.

I have a tool that shows me when UVD h/w is working on the 780 chipset. It does show that when I playback flash content from Hulu, UVD is busy.

I just ran Legend of the Seeker in 720P pop out window, maximized on a 42" westinghouse 1080P monitor set to it's native resolution. Zino HD has 780 chipset and 6850e CPU installed.

Before 10.1 flash player update.
CPU load was running about 75-89% load.
UVD status = Idle
Playback was smooth with ever so slight jitter. I think the jitter was introduced by our work network as when I ran this same clip at a friends house, there was no noticable jitter.

After flash 10.1 update
CPU load dropped to 55-65%
UVD status = Busy
Playback was smooth. Did not notice any jitter but did not check image as I was more interested in CPU load and UVD status.
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post #418 of 5037
11/18/09 at 11:58am
Is it possible to use HDMI for video output and something else to get dolby digital to my receiver (usb soundcard?). Obviously my avr is older and does nor have hdmi.
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post #419 of 5037
11/18/09 at 12:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobo529 View Post

Is it possible to use HDMI for video output and something else to get dolby digital to my receiver (usb soundcard?). Obviously my avr is older and does nor have hdmi.

See post 377, although this is only one option.
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post #420 of 5037
11/18/09 at 12:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by n4cr2k View Post

For those claiming that the deal is dead, try giving dell a call. I called my EPP number and was able to get the deal w/ $60 gift card.

The operator I spoke to told me to take a walk as the Zino wasn't even listed on the EPP. They'd offer the regular price, with no gift card, and free shipping. Did you do something special? My company has thousands of Dells, literally, so I don't think it's a company issue. Could be, though.
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