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Onkyo TX-NR807 Official Thread - Page 2

post #31 of 5391
8/14/09 at 11:17am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toknowshita View Post

Like others have said, I still think I'll hang onto my 805. But to be fair the 805 has probably by far been the best bang for buck unit in the history of the modern AVR.

Reasons I still like the 805 over this:
1) MultEQ XT instead of the lower MultEQ.
2) I listen at higher volumes(not reference), DynamicEQ usefullness is directed more at lower listening levels.
3) PLIIz stikes me as a gimmick. I don't feel I can trust a 'real-time' algorithm to accurately place audio in height channels. Now if someone encodes with discrete height channels then I have no problem with it.
4) Truly an Ultra2 piece, unlike the 806. At least the 807 was correctly labeled as a Select2 piece.
5) Vast majority of content I watch in my HT is native HD (HD cable and Blu-ray), so I prefer the video over HDMI to be untouched.

Now I did just purchase a Denon AVR2809($830+tx) for someone I know. I got a good deal but not great considering Amazon just closed out on its sister unit, the AVR989, for $550. But it still was significantly under the $1200 MSRP.

Do I keep the Denon unit that has MultEQ XT, DynamicVolume, DynamicEQ or do I return it for the 807? If it had not been for the negative view of the 806 I might have gone the Onkyo route again.

PLIIz is not a gimmick. Not when you are watching a movie and you are suddenly drawn into it more with some loud rain or helicpoters. And even more so when you are watching sports. The cheer of the crowd has a huge impact when you hear it all around you like that. Trust me, Height will become the norm very quickly...
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post #32 of 5391
8/14/09 at 11:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Just had the 4310 here. I believe you could send the outs to all the zones from the iPOD docks. Both are very good receivers and both will get the job done. For the money the 807 is the better deal but still it is much easier to assign the A and B surrounds (Height and Surrounds) on the 4310.

Thanks joerod. It seemed that the cost of adding two docks to the 807 might get me close to the cost ( discounted ) of the 4310. I may wait to see what the discount on the 807 is.

Thanks again

Mark
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post #33 of 5391
8/14/09 at 11:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

PLIIz is not a gimmick. Not when you are watching a movie and you are suddenly drawn into it more with some loud rain or helicpoters. And even more so when you are watching sports. The cheer of the crowd has a huge impact when you hear it all around you like that. Trust me, Height will become the norm very quickly...

joerod,

I am not saying that it will not add to the soundfield, but again you are relying on a 'real-time' algorithm to put sounds where the sound mixer may never intended them to be. Like I said, I have no problem with discrete height channels, but height channels determined by a real-time DSP algorithm, I have my doubts it is an accurate. Where I see more of useful DSP application of height would be used in conjuction with a center channel. Where it could be used in applications where the main center speaker has to be placed to far above or below the screen. You could use small satellites to help pull the audio back to the middle of the screen.
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post #34 of 5391
8/14/09 at 11:38am
Joerod,

How does the TX-NR807 compare to the SC886 Preamp/Processor, in terms of audio and video quality? Does NR807 have any advantages over the SC886?

Thanks
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post #35 of 5391
8/14/09 at 11:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bnlitin View Post

Joerod,

How does the TX-NR807 compare to the SC886 Preamp/Processor, in terms of audio and video quality? Does NR807 have any advantages over the SC886?

Thanks


The 886 has the better XT version of MultEQ .
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post #36 of 5391
8/14/09 at 12:18pm
What about the video processing on NR807?

The NR807 is using Faroudja DCDi vs Reon on SC886.
Which does a better job scaling and upsampling?

Also, I see that NR807 has Dolby IIz. How useful is it? I really like Dolby IIx for music.
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post #37 of 5391
8/14/09 at 12:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bnlitin View Post

What about the video processing on NR807?

The NR807 is using Faroudja DCDi vs Reon on SC886.
Which does a better job scaling and upsampling?

Also, I see that NR807 has Dolby IIz. How useful is it? I really like Dolby IIx for music.


Well the company behind the Reon and Realta chipsets, Silicon Optix, went belly up so I doubt newer models will be using this solution unless someone buys the rights to it. It was generally regarded as a better solution when implemented properly. I know the intial Onkyos with it the 875(receiver)/885(pre-pro) and 905(receiver) had issues with its implementation. I think it was not properly passing BTB/WTW information. AFAIK, it has not been corrected on the 876/886 and 906.

Faroudja's solution is now considered to be a bit long in the tooth.

The newer Anchor Bay solutions seem to be where it is at as far as deinterlacing and scaling.

PLIIz just uses a 'real-time' DSP algorithm to derive a height channel. I have heard good and bad about it. I am concerned that information is placed in the channel that should not be there and also I think it is getting ridiculous with the number of speakers that they expect end users to add to their rooms. Hell I have a dedicated room and I don't plan on adding 'height' channels from some DSP algorithm. Now if these were truly discrete channels where a professional sound mixer had control of what gets put in the channel and what doesn't I might buy into it, but to me it's a gimmick.
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post #38 of 5391
8/14/09 at 12:52pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bnlitin View Post

Joerod,

How does the TX-NR807 compare to the SC886 Preamp/Processor, in terms of audio and video quality? Does NR807 have any advantages over the SC886?

Thanks

The 886 is excellent and I really liked it. I just like the PLIIz better so in terms of overall sound Q I like the 807 better. If I didn't have Height speakers it would be very close. Video wise thought the 886 is better since it has more picture adjustments. Not by much though and most would not be able to tell the difference. Of course I personally have never been a huge fan of REON chip scaling. Especially after their goof in the last JVC PJ generation.
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post #39 of 5391
8/14/09 at 12:52pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toknowshita View Post

The 886 has the better XT version of MultEQ .

For most room applications it would be hard to tell the difference.
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post #40 of 5391
8/14/09 at 12:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

For most room applications it would be hard to tell the difference.

True, but if you do have a problem room I would prefer the algorithm with higher resolution filters over the algorithm for 'PLIIz' to be included in my DSP.
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post #41 of 5391
8/14/09 at 1:01pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toknowshita View Post

True, but if you do have a problem room I would prefer the algorithm with higher resolution filters over the algorithm for 'PLIIz' to be included in my DSP.

Have you ever heard Height sound before? I think it is funny how many put something down before ever trying it...
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post #42 of 5391
8/14/09 at 1:12pm
Reading a couple of posts here has led me to believe the 807 doesn't pass a true HD signal thru HDMI untouched. If this is true then what exactly does the 807 do to that signal?. Like one of the members here I mostly watch HD material and would like to pass that via HDMI unaltered. Does this mean the 807 wouldn't be for me?
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post #43 of 5391
8/14/09 at 1:15pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -RONIN- View Post

Reading a couple of posts here has led me to believe the 807 doesn't pass a true HD signal thru HDMI untouched. If this is true then what exactly does the 807 do to that signal?. Like one of the members here I mostly watch HD material and would like to pass that via HDMI unaltered. Does this mean the 807 wouldn't be for me?

That was with previous generations. The 807 sends thru a nice unaltered image. That was one of their main goals going in...
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post #44 of 5391
8/14/09 at 1:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

That was with previous generations. The 807 sends thru a nice unaltered image. That was one of their main goals going in...

joerod, thank you for answering my question.
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post #45 of 5391
8/14/09 at 1:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I would say it is better than the 876, right there with the 906 and since the Denon does not have THX Loudness I would probably choose the 807 over it. Seriously. I think Denon made a mistake by not including THX. Even their new 4810 so far is looking like it will not have it. Not to say the 4310 is a slouch, I am a big fan of it. Especially its scaling. If I could combine the 4310 features with some of the 807 I could make the perfect receiver!

Joe, excellent review and thanks for taking the time to educate us.

saying the power and sound is close to as good as the 906 is a huge complement. I owned the legendary 805 and found the 906 more than incrementally better. Really makes me wonder what the 3007 and 5007 are going to be all about.
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post #46 of 5391
8/14/09 at 2:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

Joe, excellent review and thanks for taking the time to educate us.

saying the power and sound is close to as good as the 906 is a huge complement. I owned the legendary 805 and found the 906 more than incrementally better. Really makes me wonder what the 3007 and 5007 are going to be all about.

I can't wait!
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post #47 of 5391
8/14/09 at 2:10pm
Thread Starter 
I just finished testing Fast & Furious and the sound was definitely next level. I had the DTS-HD with Height going and heard terrific sound up front while also hearing good complimentary sound from behind (including the surround backs)... This is by only using the receiver (not my AMP). The 807 may not be a true 9.1 or 11.1 receiver but it could have fooled me...
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post #48 of 5391
8/14/09 at 2:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Have you ever heard Height sound before? I think it is funny how many put something down before ever trying it...

It is not as if I think height is necessarily bad, but I don't like it being derived from a DSP mode.

Also, the number of speaker that manufactures want to keep continually adding to our setups is ridiculous.

Anyways thanks for the first look and review. I am also interested to see Onkyo's newer units that hopefully retain a similiar amp section as the true THX Ultra2 pieces meaning the 805, 875(6), 905(6).
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post #49 of 5391
8/14/09 at 3:00pm
Thread Starter 
How can you dislike something you never heard? Seriously, you need to at least try and listen sometime. Specs on paper are not always what they appear...
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post #50 of 5391
8/14/09 at 3:30pm
Thanks for all you hard work. Is there a way with this receiver, either by using the pre outs or the zone two pre outs to get digital signals out to a zone 2 amp. Thanks.
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post #51 of 5391
8/14/09 at 4:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I just finished testing Fast & Furious and the sound was definitely next level. I had the DTS-HD with Height going and heard terrific sound up front while also hearing good complimentary sound from behind (including the surround backs)... This is by only using the receiver (not my AMP). The 807 may not be a true 9.1 or 11.1 receiver but it could have fooled me...

Joerod, are you able to get sound out of the Surround Backs while the Height channels are engaged? My understanding was the receiver only had 7 amps
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post #52 of 5391
8/14/09 at 4:35pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

Joerod, are you able to get sound out of the Surround Backs while the Height channels are engaged? My understanding was the receiver only had 7 amps

Funny thing is after the firmware update went thru it started playing sound from both. I have a phone call into them. I think this is a good thing though. The sound was terrific...
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post #53 of 5391
8/14/09 at 4:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Funny thing is after the firmware update went thru it started playing sound from both. I have a phone call into them. I think this is a good thing though. The sound was terrific...

i wonder how the hell it's amplifying nine channels if it only has seven amps? and believe me, this is pure curiosity and not questioning the veracity of your claim.
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post #54 of 5391
8/14/09 at 5:00pm
Thread Starter 
I know. I actually think it may be sending the same to Height and Surround Backs. I will try and confirm this tonite. We have company over so I can get some opinion...
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post #55 of 5391
8/14/09 at 5:12pm
joe -- now that you have had TWO receivers with DSX and PLIIz, have you had a chance to do a comparison of DSX vs PLIIz for generating the "height" channels???

Also, please compare the 4310CI to the 807 more thoroughly. You mentioned the lack of THX Loudness Plus on the Denon... but I don't think that's an issue considering it has the superior Audyssey Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume technologies (Audyssey, BTW, is co-founded by Tomlinson Holman, the "TH" in "THX", so I doubt he would argue that point )
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post #56 of 5391
8/14/09 at 5:46pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

joe -- now that you have had TWO receivers with DSX and PLIIz, have you had a chance to do a comparison of DSX vs PLIIz for generating the "height" channels???

Also, please compare the 4310CI to the 807 more thoroughly. You mentioned the lack of THX Loudness Plus on the Denon... but I don't think that's an issue considering it has the superior Audyssey Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume technologies (Audyssey, BTW, is co-founded by Tomlinson Holman, the "TH" in "THX", so I doubt he would argue that point )

The only area where lack of THX Loudness comes into effect is when my Wife is watching TV in there later at night. She notices the subtle differences in volume levels more then I do. Yes, you can do the Dynamic Vol settings but they seem more extreme. We seem to favor receivers with THX Loudness over the ones that don't have it...

I promise I will dedicate some time to the DSX sound this weekend..
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post #57 of 5391
8/14/09 at 6:01pm
promises, promises....

you go through AVR's so fast you don't have time to test everything I'll believe it when I see it!
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post #58 of 5391
8/14/09 at 7:28pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

promises, promises....

you go through AVR's so fast you don't have time to test everything I'll believe it when I see it!

I have all day tomorrow.

I can confirm the 807 does exactly what the 4310 does. The 4310 gives options for speakers A and B or both for different sound modes. It plays the same sound in both. The 807 does not give A and B or both options and just plays the same sound out of the Heights and surround backs. Either way both sound excellent...
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post #59 of 5391
8/14/09 at 9:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I know. I actually think it may be sending the same to Height and Surround Backs. I will try and confirm this tonite. We have company over so I can get some opinion...

wonder if it has to halve the power to do that...just curious since the traditional model is that the rear sounds are NOT powered when zone 2 is powered.
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post #60 of 5391
8/14/09 at 10:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

The 807 does not give A and B or both options and just plays the same sound out of the Heights and surround backs. Either way both sound excellent...

didn't we talk about this in the 4310 thread? You obviously have something hooked up wrong if that is the case! The "height" channels are discrete channls that will have totally different content than the surrounds. On the 4310 you could do four surrounds playing duplicate signal (a/b surrounds basically faking 7.1 but really only 5.1 discret channels). However, the height channels are a totally different thing. There is no way the height channels should be playing anything close to what the surrounds are playing in a properly configured system, especially when using DSX.
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