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Pioneer SC-25 and SC-27 Receiver Thread - Page 2

post #31 of 5242
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

earl, what cable are you using? on previous gen units, we've found that they are a bit "picky" about cables...

Same cable that got me my isf modes unlocked by Control cal on My pro 111fd.
USB to whatever port that connects behind the receiver
USb to RS-232C
post #32 of 5242
^
Make sure the RS232 end is a null modem (or crossover) serial cable. Think of it like the difference between a normal network cable and a crossover network cable

This is explained in the manual & the directions with the downloaded software. Check page 41 in your manual:

"Use a commercially-available RS-232C cable to connect
the RS-232C jack on your computer to the 9-pin RS-232C
jack on the back panel of this receiver (the cable must be
cross type, female–female)."

I also attached a screenshot right from the MCACC software instructions you can download from Pioneer's site.

So you need USB-to-serial adapter + null modem (crossover, reverse) cable. Check Belkin, newegg, or local PC/PC supply superstore

Also **important** - just make sure the COM port you select is available on your PC/laptop & not taken by IRDA or other device. You shouldn't have this problem since USB has nearly replaced serial devices on new PC's but wouldn't hurt to check just in case.

ss9001

 

Cables needed for Pioneer MCACC software.pdf 64.9072265625k . file
post #33 of 5242
earlraglin;

This is one option:

Cable is very important, it must be a null cable.

I use this cable:
(same one mentioned in the MCACC manual)
http://microcenter.com/single_produc...uct_id=0201663
and it works fine, another null cable I used did not work (I got the timeout messages).

If you are using a USB to serial adaptor (members in the SC-09 thread have been sucessful using an adaptor when their computer didn't have a serial port) that will just give you a straight connection.. you will still need a null cable (as above link) as well.

If you've done all that:
Another thing is to make sure you are using the correct com port (see page 9 of the SC-07 MCACC manual.)
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/St...ctions0708.pdf
Also, set the receiver to "Output PC" in the MCACC Data Check menu before clicking receive in the software application.

Hope that helps


MCACC Manuals and Software


Amsinay found this working solution:
He also noted that the new MCACC PC sofware (version 2.2) that will work on Vista now.


Serial to USB Cable ID:2067

USB to RS232 DB9 male(Serial) / DB25 male Converter Cable ($8.27)


and
Null modem cable ID: 478

Null Modem DB 9 F/F cable Molded - 10ft ($1.52) <-not a typo



Original posts:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post16952213

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post16954473

This is the actual pinout you're looking for in a null cable for your receiver:

post #34 of 5242
^^^
Show off!

You had to out-do my screenshot attachment
I agree that Microcenter - great place to get this stuff
post #35 of 5242
^^^^
You're my mentor, ss9001!

Wow, it's kinda lilke deja vue!
post #36 of 5242
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHP_VR View Post

earlraglin;

This is one option:

Cable is very important, it must be a null cable.

I use this cable:
(same one mentioned in the MCACC manual)
http://microcenter.com/single_produc...uct_id=0201663
and it works fine, another null cable I used did not work (I got the timeout messages).

If you are using a USB to serial adaptor (members in the SC-09 thread have been sucessful using an adaptor when their computer didn't have a serial port) that will just give you a straight connection.. you will still need a null cable (as above link) as well.

If you've done all that:
Another thing is to make sure you are using the correct com port (see page 9 of the SC-07 MCACC manual.)
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/St...ctions0708.pdf
Also, set the receiver to "Output PC" in the MCACC Data Check menu before clicking receive in the software application.

Hope that helps


MCACC Manuals and Software


Amsinay found this working solution:
He also noted that the new MCACC PC sofware (version 2.2) that will work on Vista now.


Serial to USB Cable ID:2067

USB to RS232 DB9 male(Serial) / DB25 male Converter Cable ($8.27)


and
Null modem cable ID: 478

Null Modem DB 9 F/F cable Molded - 10ft ($1.52) <-not a typo



Original posts:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post16952213

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post16954473

This is the actual pinout you're looking for in a null cable for your receiver:


Thanks! Dumb guy @ Pioneer Cust Serv told me that A laptop will not work.
post #37 of 5242
Quote:
Originally Posted by earlraglin View Post

Thanks! Dumb guy @ Pioneer Cust Serv told me that A laptop will not work.

Interesting... page 7 specifically mentions a notebook computer.
I've been using a notebook without issue..

Oh well, if we believed everything CS told us, we would be in a lot of trouble!

Here's the MCACC manual for the SC-25/27:
http://pioneerusa.com/StaticFiles/Ma...ctions0615.pdf

Page system requirements (page 2):


Page 7:
When using a notebook computer or other computer without an RS-232C terminal,
this application can be used by connecting the receiver via USB using a commercially
available USB-RS-232C conversion cable (USB-Serial cable). When using USB connections,
be sure to select the proper COM port number for data transmission (see page 9).
post #38 of 5242
Quote:
Originally Posted by earlraglin View Post

Thanks! Dumb guy @ Pioneer Cust Serv told me that A laptop will not work.

Maybe he's a Dell reject
Hopefully he's new at this & not an "old hand"
post #39 of 5242
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

Good thing he doesn't work for Dell
Hopefully, he's new at this & not one of their "old hands"

I think I thought of what I need to do! You say something about going to my setting in My Receiver called output PC! Is that in my MCACC setup? If so, I will check when I get home. Bec I just hooked up my laptop and went to the screen were it told my to now go and open up MCACC on my PC
post #40 of 5242
Quote:
Originally Posted by earlraglin View Post

............................ You say something about going to my setting in My Receiver called output PC! Is that in my MCACC setup? ..................................

Yes, page 120 of your SC-27 manual:
The Advanced MCACC menu



Sounds like you're getting there
post #41 of 5242
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHP_VR View Post

Yes, page 120 of your SC-27 manual:
The Advanced MCACC menu



Sounds like you're getting there

OK, Never mind! Yea That is were I was last night and on my laptop @ the same time in the MACC Software Application. And when I go to my Port 4. It starts but then in about 10 sec it will say that it Timed Out. I know it is something that I am doing wrong somewhere and when I find out the problem. It will be something small
post #42 of 5242
^^^
Really sounds like it's probably your serial cable, earlraglin...

Good luck!
post #43 of 5242
Quote:
Originally Posted by earlraglin View Post

And when I go to my Port 4. It starts but then in about 10 sec it will say that it Timed Out. I know it is something that I am doing wrong somewhere and when I find out the problem. It will be something small

You may already know this & be doing it, but just in case

Also, when you connect the USB-serial adapter, go into Windows device manager, check your USB connected devices, and note the COM port number the adapter is using. Use that same COM port number in your MCACC software. If the adapter & software are not on the same port, no communication

Another piece of the puzzle...
post #44 of 5242
I'm hot for the SC-27 and I like that it has appeared simutaneously with the Oppo BRP-83. Nice timing. I'll buy both- the 83 right away.

How does FM souund on the 27? I have a Tandberg 2075 stereo receiver (1976) and it is glorious sounding! FM is actually good enough to listen to- but only the PBS classical station since no remote and the low-brow stations blast you with commercials.

I had a known brand of receiver here in 2005 and a higher model of theirs here in 2007, both from a refurb site they run. Both were OK on CDs and DVD-As, but FM on both sounded like a cheap AM radio you'd find in a dumpster in Manila some night. Maybe not even that good. I could hardly believe it! Both went back for other issues, but if they do FM I feel they should do it well.

Tandberg was made in Oslo, Norway. I guess Europeans listen to more FM than we do, being more careful with their money than we are, and so Tandberg really put great FM tuners in their receivers. So I am curious, how does FM sound on the Pio 27? I'm thinking of keeping my Tandberg in my rig when I buy the 27, if only for that great FM tuner. Also, it is simply beautiful to look at and functions flawlessly after 33 1/3 years of service. It's a prized possession and it deserves to stay right where it is. The Allison Ones it drives will stay right where they are too.

I figured out how you drive one set of speakers with either of two receivers (but NEVER have both receivers connected to those speakers at the same time so the receivers can never burn each other out). Imagine a piece of wood about a foot square. On it you mount two sets of speaker terminals, one on the left side and one on the right side of the square as you look down on it. You attach a cable from one receiver to one set of terminals and a cable from the other receiver to the other set of terminals. Now imagine a big switch with a black handle you can throw which locks into one or the other of those terminals. You then run a cable from the output of that switch up to the terminals on the back of the speaker. You install the identical set-up at the other speaker. (I'm talking the two front mains here- e.g., my two Allison Ones).

Now, when you throw the two switches to the left, the two front mains will be "listening" to the first receiver. When you throw both switches to the right, the two front mains will be "listening" to the other receiver. The two receivers will never be in communication with each other and so can't burn each other out or otherwise damage each other. That is how I could keep my Tandberg receiver connected to my Allisons for FM and have a new SC-27 connected to them for everything else. Anyone see any flaws in my plan? Wonder who I'd hire to buiild the two terminal-switch set-ups?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHP_VR View Post

Congratulations on your SC-27!

Welcome to the ICE AMP club

Looking forward to hearing your impressions.
post #45 of 5242
fresno, unless the upgraded the tuner section on the 27 over last year's models, you'll be disappointed when compared to your tandberg...

as far as switching... someone has done it with a gadgetboard... there are also commercially available switches...

but why even bother with a switch? the tandberg has pre-outs, doesn't it?
post #46 of 5242
Well as a D1 owner trying to decide if I wanted to sell and buy a SC-25 for a second room and buy a D2v to replace the D1 in my theater it was helpful. And yes I would be disappointed, well surprised if there was not an obvious difference.

Of course the only way I can afford this plan is to die and let my wife collect on my life insurance. Not sure how to then to ensure she spends her gains on the D2v or how I would work the remote. Details details.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post



You mean you are comparing a setup close to $9-10,000 using one of the best processors ($7500) & a decent amp that can deliver its rated power to all 7 channels at the same time to a receiver at the $1500 price point and are disappointed????

I certainly would hope so!

That's a wholy unrealistic comparison even for Ice amps at these 2 widely different costs. About like comparing a Mercedes to a Chevy truck.

If you want a more realistic comparison for preamp quality & power output, try the $7000 Pioneer SC-09 receiver against your Anthem setup then tell us what you think. I'm a Pioneer Elite fan, own a lot of their gear including the SC-09 & even I wouldn't consider making the comparison you did. At the minimum try comparing with the SC-27 for gosh sakes.

Wyred4Sound makes a 7X125W Icepower amp & it costs $2995!

And don't worry, bubbles are not burst. No offense, but talk about unrealistic expectations....whew!

ss9001
Steve
post #47 of 5242
Well so far I continue to be amazed at the sound that is comming out of my 27. I was going to continue in the Denon camp only I like some of the convienence features they have. But as far as flexability, SQ and so far PQ I am very happy. I finally decided to try the 23FD BD it is being delivered today. I sold my very nice Denon 3800. I wanted the 09 but a bit to much for the current budget and decidec against the OPPO for now as I have an elite 45A to use for analog SACD. The 23 seems like a good match for the 27 and am really anxious to try the PQLS.
Still my only complaints so far the lack of On screen Display and the DD+ audio drop outs on the HD XA-2. One of the nice supprised is the Neural stations. They sound quite nice .
post #48 of 5242
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by william06 View Post

Well so far I continue to be amazed at the sound that is comming out of my 27. I was going to continue in the Denon camp only I like some of the convienence features they have. But as far as flexability, SQ and so far PQ I am very happy. I finally decided to try the 23FD BD it is being delivered today. I sold my very nice Denon 3800. I wanted the 09 but a bit to much for the current budget and decidec against the OPPO for now as I have an elite 45A to use for analog SACD. The 23 seems like a good match for the 27 and am really anxious to try the PQLS.
Still my only complaints so far the lack of On screen Display and the DD+ audio drop outs on the HD XA-2. One of the nice supprised is the Neural stations. They sound quite nice .

Dude, i have the 23fd with the SC-27 and it look dope on my Pro 111fd. It is a good PLayer!
post #49 of 5242
Quote:
Originally Posted by earlraglin View Post

Dude, i have the 23fd with the SC-27 and it look dope on my Pro 111fd. It is a good PLayer!

Hey Thats good to hear cannot wait for it to get here. I also hooked up and old 45Aelite dvd for the SACD and it sounds awesome this is some amp.
post #50 of 5242
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by william06 View Post

Hey Thats good to hear cannot wait for it to get here. I also hooked up and old 45Aelite dvd for the SACD and it sounds awesome this is some amp.

setting up MCACC is FUN and addictive! Trying to get the Best sound out of this thing! I had a good ONKYO 876 before and it sounded good too. The Pioneer sound is Clean and Powerful. The ONKYO was warm and powerful.
post #51 of 5242
Just had a scary moment with my 48 hour old SC-25. Had a normal FL afternoon thunderstorm, power went out and when the came back on the blue power light was flashing... I tried to unplug it and plug it back in, same thing... I read the manual and it said to unplug for a minute, I skeptically tried it, and I am happy to say it worked

My old Onkyo 806 has been hit with these outages a lot as we are the lighting capital... I read a ton of posts about Pioneer's dieing with the flashing blue light and red light as well... I have it hooked up to a surge protector, should I get a UPS? If so, which one?
post #52 of 5242
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHP_VR View Post

^^^
Really sounds like it's probably your serial cable, earlraglin...

Good luck!

Man, I just tried a normal PC going in just as it tell you to and bam! Same thing with the timeout mess.... I give up! my **** do not work. Could it be something in the 27 that I am just not doing?
This MCACC thing getting it to my PC is a Beo-tch!!!!
post #53 of 5242
I would try a null modem cable that I knew worked or at least recommended by someone who had tried it...

One member said this worked for him:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

The one I use and know works is the Belkin Pro Series Serial Direct Cable Part No:F3B207-10
(Same one recommended in the MCACC manual)
http://microcenter.com/single_produc...uct_id=0201663

None of this is critical for your listening enjoyment earlraglin
It's just another toy to play with! Don't get frustrated, have fun!
post #54 of 5242
Hey guys. Would appreciate some help. Got my whole system set up with the SC-27. Got the 23 with pql it really is awesome noticed a nice difference. Tos xa-2, Ipod, TV, Projector, Neural audio , Internet audio All works well. Just one exception. I hooked up my Elite 45A DVD SACD,DVD a player to video 2 component and multi audio. I Get the audio but not any video. Any suggestions. I have tried everything and its probably something stupid. The 45 has a video off on button I tried that. Nothing gets a pic. Went through set up etc. Even my Elite 91 LD is set up and works. Please help driving me crazy.
Thanks in advance
post #55 of 5242
William06;
Only thing I can think of is this happened when I first set up my DV-59AVi...
Resetting it brought everything the way it was supposed to.

To reset it.
From your 49 manual (page 70):

Resetting the player
Use this procedure to reset all the player’s
settings to the factory default.
1 Switch the player into standby.
2 Using the front panel buttons, hold
down the 7 (stop) button and press
STANDBY/ON to switch the player back
on.
All the player’s settings are now reset, and
you should see the ‘Let’s Get Started’ screen.

Other than that, double check you have it plugged in to component 2..
then double check that it's setup to operate in component 2 in the input setup menu as VIDEO2..
(component2 default is DVR - see page 32 of your SC-27 manual)
post #56 of 5242
I'm strongly considering something like the SC 25/27 because if they actually are using D class amplifiers that can do 140w/channel with all channels driven, I don't know that there is much need to buy a separate amp unless you need even more power. I have a couple questions if you guys don't mind that I could not figure out from looking at Pioneer's website:

1) Can anyone comment on the video scaling (DVDs & HDTV) up to 1080p? How would it compare to the Silicon Optix Reon HQV chip used in the Onkyo 876/906's?

2) Can you assign all the inputs? (for example, have the receiver pass through native 1080p blu-ray signals but scale DVD's and HDTV to 1080p)

Thanks in advance. The answers to these questions will make my decision easier. I'm comparing it to the Onkyo 906 because my parents have one and I'm familair with it.

Mark
post #57 of 5242
Simple question, what kind of upgrade in sound can I expect going to one of these receivers from my Onkyo TX-SR805?
post #58 of 5242
Pioneer does not touch HDMI signals.
It will convert and scale analog to HDMI.
post #59 of 5242
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcadid View Post

Simple question, what kind of upgrade in sound can I expect going to one of these receivers from my Onkyo TX-SR805?

The SC-25/27 is less than a month old.
However the SC-05/07 has been out for more than a year.
You can check here for comparisions with the Onkyo.
There's two on page 1
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...4#post14864114
and another 6 on page 2
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...0#post15593970
post #60 of 5242
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcadid View Post

Simple question, what kind of upgrade in sound can I expect going to one of these receivers from my Onkyo TX-SR805?

The two biggest differences I found were THX Loudness Plus and MCACC uses three methods for room correction which can be stored in six memory locations.

I didn't find a night and day difference in the basic sound but the two items I listed above made it a worthwhile upgrade (roughly $400). THX Loudness Plus does a great job of keeping the soundtrack dynamic at medium volume levels and I no longer have the continual urge to turn up the volume.

I never liked that the Onkyo only had one method of room correction and I have found the All Channel Adjust method on the SC-07 outstanding. The differences between the three methods are easily spotted (especially with dialog). If the receiver had only the default method I would feel the upgrade wasn't really an upgrade... mostly a sideways.
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