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Pioneer SC-25 and SC-27 Receiver Thread - Page 167

post #4981 of 5242
That only buys you 3 - 4 dB of headroom, not a huge increase. First check out a sound pressure level (SPL, "loudness") calculator like the one at http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html to see what you might need.
post #4982 of 5242
Nice. This made me understand completely how you came to the 3-4 Dbl level increase after I plugged my numbers in.. So basically assuming my system receiver (SC-27) can handle my speakers M80 at 4 ohms there would not be a reason to add a separate amp. Now if I keep experiencing clipping i would definately like to add a amp to keep my system running so I do not damage expensive components.
Man I must like my system loud like the rest of us.
post #4983 of 5242
I need my hearing so do not play as loud as some... The SC-27 is not actually rated for 4 ohms, but many have been driving 4-ohm speakers just fine.

A 1 dB increase is barely noticeable (you may not notice if the volume is bumped up or down just 1 dB) and requires 1.26 times the power (about 1/4 more Watts).

Note 3 dB is a noticeable increase in volume and requires twice the power.

A 10 dB increase is twice as loud (in the midrange) and requires ten times the power.

If you are sure your AVR is clipping and you need an amp, this and the SPL calculator should help you determine how much of an amp you need.

HTH - Don
post #4984 of 5242
No kidding 600-700watts on the electric bill to run that I suspect. I have not experienced any clipping at all sounds like it could have been a few loose wires since I checked all the connections.

Question: What volume level is everyone listening at? My SC-27 is very loud at -8 on mine. sometimes I can go louder but right around -8 is about the most I go. I am running a 7.1 system. 4 ohms for the L and R. 6 ohm for the Center and all the surrounds are at 8 ohms.

EPIC 80 Axiom 7.1 system.
I calculated I have 230 watts at 4ohms to the front L and R, 180 watts to the center and 140 watts to each of the surround sound speakers does that sound about right? The receiver seems to be handling this well so far.

Where is the cut off on distortion? And what point does it lose the clean sound and is better to go separate amp? I was always told the lower the volume level and the louder it plays is when it is at the cleanest?
post #4985 of 5242
What volume level do i set the receiver at when I am running the MCACC?. I noticed after the Full MCACC was done it had the sub at -10 and most of all the speakers in the negative level -4, -4.5 -5 ect??? Sounds like I ran the test at loud a volume?
I set it at my listening volume of -8DB when I ran the test. Should it be lower???
post #4986 of 5242
In my smallish room I am not sure I have ever listened above -20 dB. Since the volume is dependent upon your speakers, distance from them, room dimensions (to some extent), and listening habits, everybody is going to provide a different answer.

MCACC sets the levels it needs during calibration no matter the volume level you set before (and after). Looks to me like you should turn the gain on your sub down a little so it trims closer to 0 dB -- a setting of -10 dB in the AVR means the sub's gain is probably set too high and it is setting the trim level low to compensate.
post #4987 of 5242
I think I have the sub level turned down really low to.
post #4988 of 5242
I'm going to pick up a SPL meter to really check this.
post #4989 of 5242
What you listen to will also affect the volume you play at. I will usually listen to music CDs between -25 and -20. Movies, somewhere between -18 to -10.

briandaniella, I second DonH50, turn down your sub to try to get closer to a zero trim. I wouldn't worry about the -4 or -5 on the rest of the speakers, specially if all speakers are in the same range.

Dan.
post #4990 of 5242
I ran 4 ohm Vienna speakers with the sc25 for a couple of years - never had a clipping problem. Then again I can't stand listening to super loud music!
post #4991 of 5242
Will Do. Everytime set up the Advance MCACC, it told me to turn subwoofer volume down. Right now I think I have it at 9:00oclock on the back of the sub.
I will try to turn the trim down to "0" and lower the volume on the back to compensate if there is to much bass. I am also thinking of moving my sub to the opposite side of my center channel as right now it is closer to the side wall. Maybe that is why it is so sensitive and strong in the corner.
post #4992 of 5242
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezalon View Post

I ran 4 ohm Vienna speakers with the sc25 for a couple of years - never had a clipping problem. Then again I can't stand listening to super loud music!

I think I just had a few wires touching or something because I have not experienced it since that one time. I watch Dredd last night and it was crazy 7.1 and sounds were going off everywhere with no issues. Great movie for anything that wants a good audio mix and gun scenes.
post #4993 of 5242
Quote:
Originally Posted by briandaniella View Post

Will Do. Everytime set up the Advance MCACC, it told me to turn subwoofer volume down. Right now I think I have it at 9:00oclock on the back of the sub.
I will try to turn the trim down to "0" and lower the volume on the back to compensate if there is to much bass. I am also thinking of moving my sub to the opposite side of my center channel as right now it is closer to the side wall. Maybe that is why it is so sensitive and strong in the corner.

MCACC should set the trim; if it is setting to -10 and telling you to turn the sub down, then I would turn the gain on the sub down and re-run MCACC. I think there is a level-setting feature in the MCACC menu that would help you dial it in. Ideally you'd like the trim settings to be within +/- 3 dB, maybe +/-6 dB, not all the way near the top or bottom of the trim range.

Putting a speaker in a corner increases its effective output. That can be good or bad. However, that is usually a separate issue from getting the trim levels right...
post #4994 of 5242
hey i have a question..i have the SC 25..but its not enough power for me...im considering goin seperates..particularly with the EMOTIVA brands ..i want to kno if i can use the sc 25 as a processor and just add the XPA 5 AMP from EMOtiva OR SHUD I CHANGE THE PROCESSOR as well??
post #4995 of 5242
^^
sure just use its preamp outs to an amp.
post #4996 of 5242
Quote:
Originally Posted by emofan21 View Post

hey i have a question..i have the SC 25..but its not enough power for me...im considering goin seperates..particularly with the EMOTIVA brands ..i want to kno if i can use the sc 25 as a processor and just add the XPA 5 AMP from EMOtiva OR SHUD I CHANGE THE PROCESSOR as well??
This combination should work like a champ! I used an SC 27 for several years with an Emotiva XPA5 before changing my setup. You can also use the receiver to power your surround rears, if you choose to go to a 7.1 system. Just my opinion, of course.
Mark
post #4997 of 5242
thanks..but will the A/B amps from the EMOTIVA effect da sound quality from the sc 25s wolfson DACS as oppose 2 the ICE AMPS in da sc 25?
post #4998 of 5242
oh ok kool..well can i ask what did yu change ur system too and are yu still using the XPA 5 if not why did yu change it out??
post #4999 of 5242
thanks steve
post #5000 of 5242
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlk4114 View Post

This combination should work like a champ! I used an SC 27 for several years with an Emotiva XPA5 before changing my setup. You can also use the receiver to power your surround rears, if you choose to go to a 7.1 system. Just my opinion, of course.
Mark
thanx mark
post #5001 of 5242
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlk4114 View Post

This combination should work like a champ! I used an SC 27 for several years with an Emotiva XPA5 before changing my setup. You can also use the receiver to power your surround rears, if you choose to go to a 7.1 system. Just my opinion, of course.
Mark
oh ok kool..well can i ask what did yu change ur system too and are yu still using the XPA 5 if not why did yu change it out??
post #5002 of 5242
my Pioneer Sc-27 says ? something then +4 on LCD screen on the unit. It flashes on there real quick right when I start up a movie then displays the audio format Master HD DTS ect.

What is the +4 referring to?
post #5003 of 5242
I will try to replay it to see what it says before that +4 is that a setting that I have to high what is that?
post #5004 of 5242
Quote:
Originally Posted by briandaniella View Post

I will try to replay it to see what it says before that +4 is that a setting that I have to high what is that?

i copied this from - http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/205602/1014-dial-norm-message - a post from 2006

"Dialogue Normalization is a part of the Dolby Digital spec. and is a way for the volume to remain consistent from program to program. A value is embedded as metadata either on the DVD or broadcast signal and the receiver makes adjustments based on that value so there are no huge swings in loudness of the overall dialogue level.

So in your example, Dialnorm +4 means the receiver raised the output 4 dB based on the dialnorm value that was input for that particular DVD.

Dolby's site will give you a more detailed explanation, if you're interested, as to how the numbers relate to reference level.

DJ"
post #5005 of 5242
Mike,
Thanks for the explanation. I was always wondering what that was. Dial +4 you called it.
post #5006 of 5242
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlk4114 View Post

This combination should work like a champ! I used an SC 27 for several years with an Emotiva XPA5 before changing my setup. You can also use the receiver to power your surround rears, if you choose to go to a 7.1 system. Just my opinion, of course.
Mark

Ditto... my SC-27 is being used with a Parasound 5250 v.2 Amp and it works perfectly. My only issue is having two large beasts in the same cabinet... along with the BD player there is no more room without overcrowding. I did add a CabCool 1202 Dual 120mm Fan Cooler Kit which is quiet and works perfectly. But I was considering replacing the SC-27 with a processor to reclaim some space since I have no plans on moving to a 7.1 setup. Fortunately the cable box is small so it sits on top and behind the display but I'd like to get it inside the cabinet as well. If anyone has any suggestions on what processor to get, feel free to suggest. Thanks.
post #5007 of 5242
+2, I am using a SC-25 with a Rotel RMB-1095 and I like the results. I had the same issue as 65Cobra427SC with spsce and that is why I also use some Cabcool fans in the back of my unit and some of their blowers on the Rotel and it barely gets warm. They fans at all very quiet.

Cobra, most processors are almost as large as the SC-27, a least in height which is what I think you want to reduce. I have thought about going that route also, but I am now thinking I want to go 7.2 instead of 5.2, so I will need the onboard AVR amps.
post #5008 of 5242
You're correct... height is the problem. I've seen a few which are lower but they are missing features I can't do without so I'll just continue to casually look around... not like I'm unhappy with the SC-27 smile.gif
post #5009 of 5242
**I had another thread going but now that I am running an SC-25 I found it proper to also post my question here**

I have Cerwin Vega RE30's (12" woofer) and they are just not pounding as much as I am imagining they should, the woofers barely move unless I venture into reference levels. Even then the bass is lacking. These are very efficient speakers and I am feeding them the power that should make them rock...

For example, see this youtube vid of a guy with his RE30's... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq7Kq-Z21Wk

Bumping like a mofo, and that is what I have always expected but am just not getting it. On the AVR I have the fronts set to Large and the x-over set to 80hz. (setting them to small doesnt change much) The sub pounds great... but I want to pretend like I don't have a sub and just get the sound/bass I want.

Any ideas of what I could try to do to make them pound? (or what I should test if something might be wrong w/ the speakers) Is there a special setting I am missing?

Thank you all, I am just now getting back into home audio and am at a bit of a loss... I just think these CV's should hit better than my dads old kenwood receiver and $30 fisher speakers...
post #5010 of 5242
There are a myriad of reasons why that may be, including preference (liking more sub sound than is actually in the recording), room effects, etc. I would start by running MCACC a couple of times with the mic moved a foot or two to either side of the listening position to see if anything changes. You can also try moving the subs. Or just turn up the subwoofer trim manually after running MCACC.
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