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Pioneer SC-25 and SC-27 Receiver Thread - Page 4

post #91 of 5240
first off, it's not a good idea to "hot swap" cables... that's asking for trouble... as in "short something out and fry it"...

a few things to see if we can narrow it down for you...

a) is there any consistency to the ones that play/don't play? i.e. are the ones that don't play sd and the ones that don't hd (or vice versa)?

b) what do you get for results if you hook up using component/spdif?
post #92 of 5240
Cocles
Also, how do you have your DVR connected? Is it via the input setup with the TV button on the remote, or just though HDMI and you're cycling through?

If this is a sat box, it may just be a matter of resetting your satbox....I would connect via component and toslink, along with the HDMI connection.. so you could compare.
post #93 of 5240
Hello,

Does any one have any info on an SC 9540? It is supposed to be a non Elite version of the SC 25.

I cant seem to find any info other than this:

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/pro...gon=&langid=EN

Thanks for any info.

Regards,

Tom
post #94 of 5240
Quote:


Does any one have any info on an SC 9540? It is supposed to be a non Elite version of the SC 25.

Found this on Pioneer Web Site:
http://www.pioneerusa.com/POCEN/Supp...C-9540.Support
post #95 of 5240
I believe that's the SC-LX72 (SC-25) equivalent for AV installer companies.
Here's the manual:
http://www.pioneer-america.com/Stati...ctions0512.pdf
and here's the unit on Pioneer-America website:
http://www.pioneer-america.com/POCEN....Support?tab=F
The european versions of the SC-25/27 are the SC-LX72 and SC-LX82
http://www.hdtvorigin.com/hdtv/pione...ivers-20090729
post #96 of 5240
Thread Starter 
How Important is looking @ the THD in Receivers! I notice that ONKYO uses about 5% and Yamaha uses 4% and Pioneer uses 9%. And they say the lower the # the better. But when I listen to these receivers @ work. The Pioneer sound more cleaner to me. The Onkyo's sound warmer and the Yamaha the same. What is your intake on this.
post #97 of 5240
For any reputable brand, earl, it makes essentially no difference. They all measure at levels below what you'd be able to hear. Besides, THD isn't all that meaningful a measurement. What's more important is the kind of distortion, rather than the total amount. Hi-end tube amps often have high THD measurements, but the harmonics they add (thereby distorting the original signal) is of a kind that isn't offensive to most ears. In fact, a lot of people like it.

Something similar is probably what you're hearing with the Pioneer vs. Onkyo and Yamaha.

Hope that helps.
post #98 of 5240
Hi, guys. New around here. I used to be a fairly serious audiophile, lost interest for about 10 years, and now I'm looking into getting a home theater set up. LOTS of new things to figure out, including a whole new class of amplification! You guys have really been busy.

These two Pioneers are among the receivers that have caught my eye, along with the upper-end Yamahas, Marantzes, and Denons. Each has some features I really like that the others don't. The more things change... Currently, I've got a Pioneer VSX-516, which I've basically just been using as an integrated amp.

The only component I have left from my audiophile days is a pair of JMLab Spectral 913.1 speakers, for whom I would kill if they asked me. I've just added a pair of Definitive Technology BP1.2x surround speakers and their Pro1000 sub, and the LG BD390 blu-ray player. (Don't even have these set up yet.)

My tv is not much. It's a Sony KDF-42E2000 -- a rear projection LCD. I'm looking to upgrade to a 50" or 54" plasma (probably).

Anyhoo, here's the questions relevant to this thread:

1. Those front speakers of mine are a complex, rated 6 ohm load. Will these Pioneers handle it? It seems like Class D, by its very nature, should excel with difficult loads.

2. Another speaker question. The VSX-516 isn't really a good match for them. The JMLab tweeter is a skosh bright to start with, so they like a warmer, somewhat rolled off amp. From what I've read about Class D amps, it seems like they tend to have that character. How would you describe these 2 amps' sound?

3. How are they with music?

4. I don't see any network connectivity listed in the specs, but that seems like a feature everybody else's new models have. Anybody know why Pioneer left it off?

Thanks, everybody!
post #99 of 5240
Quote:
Originally Posted by trent.memphis View Post

Hi, guys. New around here. I used to be a fairly serious audiophile, lost interest for about 10 years, and now I'm looking into getting a home theater set up. LOTS of new things to figure out, including a whole new class of amplification! You guys have really been busy.

These two Pioneers are among the receivers that have caught my eye, along with the upper-end Yamahas, Marantzes, and Denons. Each has some features I really like that the others don't. The more things change... Currently, I've got a Pioneer VSX-516, which I've basically just been using as an integrated amp.

The only component I have left from my audiophile days is a pair of JMLab Spectral 913.1 speakers, for whom I would kill if they asked me. I've just added a pair of Definitive Technology BP1.2x surround speakers and their Pro1000 sub, and the LG BD390 blu-ray player. (Don't even have these set up yet.)

My tv is not much. It's a Sony KDF-42E2000 -- a rear projection LCD. I'm looking to upgrade to a 50" or 54" plasma (probably).

Anyhoo, here's the questions relevant to this thread:

1. Those front speakers of mine are a complex, rated 6 ohm load. Will these Pioneers handle it? It seems like Class D, by its very nature, should excel with difficult loads.

2. Another speaker question. The VSX-516 isn't really a good match for them. The JMLab tweeter is a skosh bright to start with, so they like a warmer, somewhat rolled off amp. From what I've read about Class D amps, it seems like they tend to have that character. How would you describe these 2 amps' sound?

3. How are they with music?

4. I don't see any network connectivity listed in the specs, but that seems like a feature everybody else's new models have. Anybody know why Pioneer left it off?

Thanks, everybody!

I have the SC-27 for about 2 weeks up from a Denon 4308CI. Absoulutely love it. I have 12yr old JBL 4way L7 6ohm speakers. Love the speakers and love 2channel music. I have 7.1 system with several subs. This is the best sounding receiver I have had in my home and I have had many. The power is awesome warm and not strained at all. I have an Elite 23 in the system for Blue ray and CD. Great match, the PQLS is noticeable especially on music.
So far this receiver is problem free and is attached to the internet with and eithernet wire. The set up is a little daunting in the beginning but once you get the hang of it it is fine. Getting into the internet is very easy. I would strongly reccoment if you get this receiver return the LG and get the 23 a very nice match unless you can spring for the Elite 09. Good Luck.
post #100 of 5240
Well I think I may have the need to replace my ailing VSX-94 with either a SC-25 or 27. I'm thinking I'll save myself the $300 and go with the 25, does anyone think that the 27 is really worth another $300?

Convince me otherwise folks
post #101 of 5240
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

...it won't perform processing any hd input signal, even if it comes in over component... it will transcode it to hdmi for output, but that's it...

Is this true regarding audio processing as well? I happen to feel that video processing in a receiver is redundant so no issue there but are you also saying that it will not apply EQ processing to an HD input?
post #102 of 5240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lhasa-lover View Post

Is this true regarding audio processing as well? I happen to feel that video processing in a receiver is redundant so no issue there but are you also saying that it will not apply EQ processing to an HD input?

nope. not true. i was only referencing video.
post #103 of 5240
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

nope. not true. i was only referencing video.

Thanks for the quick reply, Chris. Regarding the OSD. I assume that all the setup menus, etc. are available on screen, its just after setup that the volume isn't shown? Sorry for the bother but I am downsizing from a Sherbourn amp and NAD prepro to a receiver and have narrowed it down to the Onkyo 906, Yamaha RX-Z7, or the pioneer SC-27. I don't give a whit about SQ as I have no doubt that they all sound equal as regards HT and video processing is not important at all. From a feature point of view all of them have what I need so its pretty much down to which I can get for the best price.

Tom
post #104 of 5240
no bother tom...

yup, you have it right... setup menus, etc. are all available on-screen, but no volume display...

you know which one i'm voting for...
post #105 of 5240
Quote:
Originally Posted by william06 View Post

I have the SC-27 for about 2 weeks up from a Denon 4308CI. Absoulutely love it. I have 12yr old JBL 4way L7 6ohm speakers. Love the speakers and love 2channel music. I have 7.1 system with several subs. This is the best sounding receiver I have had in my home and I have had many. The power is awesome warm and not strained at all. I have an Elite 23 in the system for Blue ray and CD. Great match, the PQLS is noticeable especially on music.
So far this receiver is problem free and is attached to the internet with and eithernet wire. The set up is a little daunting in the beginning but once you get the hang of it it is fine. Getting into the internet is very easy. I would strongly reccoment if you get this receiver return the LG and get the 23 a very nice match unless you can spring for the Elite 09. Good Luck.

Thanks, william! "Warm" sounds like what I'm looking for. I'll check into the 23FD. In what sense is the PQLS noticeable?
post #106 of 5240
I live in AZ and cannot seem to find it anywhere yet. None of Pioneer's list of authorized online dealers seem to have it either. Where is everyone picking this up? Thanks!
post #107 of 5240
Quote:
Originally Posted by acushner View Post

I live in AZ and cannot seem to find it anywhere yet. None of Pioneer's list of authorized online dealers seem to have it either. Where is everyone picking this up? Thanks!

got mine BB magnolia Princeton nj 2 wks ago good deal.
post #108 of 5240
Quote:
Originally Posted by acushner View Post

I live in AZ and cannot seem to find it anywhere yet. None of Pioneer's list of authorized online dealers seem to have it either. Where is everyone picking this up? Thanks!

Try Robert at Value Electronics - they are advertised as having special prices on his website. Great guy with many satisfied customers on this forum. I bought an SC-07 from him a few months ago. Have you checked with AXXIS Audio or Roman, they are two other very good options.
post #109 of 5240
[quote=smurraybhm;17078455]Try Robert at Value Electronics - they are advertised as having special prices on his website. Great guy with many satisfied customers on this forum. I bought an SC-07 from him a few months ago. Have you checked with AXXIS Audio or Roman, they are two other very good options.[/QUOT'

Thats a big plus 1 for robert. the only reason I did bb instead of him was they had it and I sold my old receiver this way I could make and easy switch. Also they did a local price match $600.00 off list could not pass that up plus tripple birthday points. But Robert is the way to normally go I agree. Fair good prices knows his stuff.
post #110 of 5240
I am currently thinking about buying the SC-27 but I have one major concern, total height. I am aware that the total height claim by Pioneer is 7.92 inches but the photographs of the 27 appear to show a difference in height between the face plate and the chassis. If the face plate is 7.62 inches in height and the chassis is less than that then I am on my way. Can someone confirm or submit a profile shot of the top line of the 27. Do not want to have to return because of something so trivial.
post #111 of 5240
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyD57 View Post

I am currently thinking about buying the SC-27 but I have one major concern, total height. I am aware that the total height claim by Pioneer is 7.92 inches but the photographs of the 27 appear to show a difference in height between the face plate and the chassis. If the face plate is 7.62 inches in height and the chassis is less than that then I am on my way. Can someone confirm or submit a profile shot of the top line of the 27. Do not want to have to return because of something so trivial.

You really need to give it 8" and some room at top does not run warm but if you get too close heat does build up I had it on top shelf with turntable on top and it got quite warm warm enough that I got a top shelf to put table higher and leave room at top of SC 27
post #112 of 5240
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyD57 View Post

I am currently thinking about buying the SC-27 but I have one major concern, total height. I am aware that the total height claim by Pioneer is 7.92 inches but the photographs of the 27 appear to show a difference in height between the face plate and the chassis. If the face plate is 7.62 inches in height and the chassis is less than that then I am on my way. Can someone confirm or submit a profile shot of the top line of the 27. Do not want to have to return because of something so trivial.

Dimensions for the SC-27, SC-25, VSX-23TXH and VSX-21TXH:



http://pioneerusa.com/StaticFiles/PU...Dimensions.pdf
post #113 of 5240
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyD57 View Post

...If the face plate is 7.62 inches in height and the chassis is less than that then I am on my way...

To explicitly reply your concern, the rest of the chassis is the same height as the face plate.
post #114 of 5240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocles View Post

Just upgraded to an SC-27.

I'm about ready to take it back to the store.

The problem is strange, so bear with me.

When you go through the list of recordings on the DVR, some of those recordings will have no audio. When you come back later (an hour maybe), and go down the list a second time, the recordings that do and do not play with audio will have changed.

Recordings that previously had no audio will play just fine, while recordings that previously *did* have audio will now be silent.

When a recording has no audio, the solution is to unplug the HDMI cable and plug it back in while the recording is playing.

You would *think* this was a problem with the DVR, however I have swapped out the DVR and still experienced the same problem. I have also swapped out the HDMI cable.

Thoughts?


Have you figured this out? In addition to what I wrote (below) in another thread, I have that same issue on the recorded shows on my Directv DVR. I have narrowed it down to DD to PCM (I use auto input mode) and what I have come up with to fix it is to rotate the input knob to another input then back or the sig select on remote and its on. In my case I also have no audio (until I do the input change) on the non HD channels selected from the guide. I am still hoping to have a real fix, but I haven't yet.





I have a new VSX-23 and have not been able to find any info regarding via the thread for the 2009 Pioneer AVR's. Since it's likely nearly identical to the 03/01, has anyone had this issue (see below)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wabkab
I've got one that's stumping me that I just noticed after my first 3 days(it took me this long to change to a non HD channel on my DirectvHd recorder. I use HDMI in and even run parallel analogs from the Directv box for my zone 2/3. These are all set as the TV/Sat input. When I change to a non HD channel without DD, I get no audio at all. The AVR reads "Stereo", but nothing output. My setting on the Direct box is for DD on, tried it off and no sound on either HD or non HD channels. That was my only audio adjustment on my Directv box. I use the auto surround mode and toggled all the source direct and standard setting with no luck. I don't get it. I would figure it has to be PCM from the box if it isn't DD which my 23 should process easily in autosurround mode. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

Playing around I found that if I change the input to another source and then back to TV/Sat it then works. Problem is every time I shut down the Direct box and turn it back on, it goes back to only the DD/HD channels with audio. Of course I can do the manual thing each time, but that blows. Also the sig select does it. It is reading the HDMI, but has this glitch when going from DD to PCM. I was wondering if this may be a sequence HDMI thing. Is there a specific order I should be turning on each component?
post #115 of 5240
How much of a difference does the Burr-Brown Sampling Rate Converter make? I am trying to decide between a SC-07 and SC-25, price being equal.

Considering they upped the SC-25 to 140w/channel and also added a second HDMI output their isn't much difference between the 2 accept the following:

SC-07:
- Burr Brown Sample Rate Converter
- THX Ultra2 (my LRC speakers are 4ohm).

SC-25:
- (info from an AVS post) PQLS Multichannel
-Advanced Sound Retriever Multichannel (works with DD and DTS, so your DVD, CableTV, Apple TV can sound closer to lossless sound)
-Optimum Sound (similar to THX loudness but you can run it independently from THX mode)
-Auto Level Control Multichannel works with HD broadcast and other multichannel soundtracks. (Dolby Volume, AFAIK, only works with 2-channel)

Has anybody tested out these new features on the 2009 models and can comment on there usefulness? I am moving from a Denon 3808 and was wondering if Midnight mode, or the THX Loudness and new Optimum Sound, is more comparable to Audyssey Volume?

Thanks
post #116 of 5240
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBDiver View Post

How much of a difference does the Burr-Brown Sampling Rate Converter make? I am trying to decide between a SC-07 and SC-25, price being equal.

Considering they upped the SC-25 to 140w/channel and also added a second HDMI output their isn't much difference between the 2 accept the following:

SC-07:
- Burr Brown Sample Rate Converter
- THX Ultra2 (my LRC speakers are 4ohm).

SC-25:
- (info from an AVS post) PQLS Multichannel
-Advanced Sound Retriever Multichannel (works with DD and DTS, so your DVD, CableTV, Apple TV can sound closer to lossless sound)
-Optimum Sound (similar to THX loudness but you can run it independently from THX mode)
-Auto Level Control Multichannel works with HD broadcast and other multichannel soundtracks. (Dolby Volume, AFAIK, only works with 2-channel)

Has anybody tested out these new features on the 2009 models and can comment on there usefulness? I am moving from a Denon 3808 and was wondering if Midnight mode, or the THX Loudness and new Optimum Sound, is more comparable to Audyssey Volume?

Thanks

We debated this early on in the SC05/07 thread. For all intents and purposes, we came to the conclusion that the ICEamps in both are the same. Pioneer just rates them differently for marketing purposes. There is the issue of having a 2nd HDMI "out" if that's of interest.

As far as PQLS, there is a difference between the 07 and the 25. That is, PQLS in the 07 is two channel only. In the 25, it's multi-channel. Do understand that you must use a PQLS compatible Pioneer BD player for PQLS to work, however.

THX loudness + (whether as a THX mode, or independent) is explained here...


http://www.thx.com/technologies/loudness_plus.html

Regarding Auto Level Control, I'm not a fan of that feature. The only way for it to work is to limit the dynamic range of the source material. That's something I definitely don't want. I won't sacrifice dynamic range to have all of my sound at similar volume levels. I'd rather just turn it up, or turn it down, depending on my wants.

Hope that helps!
post #117 of 5240
Thanks GraphicGuy, between the old 05/07 thread, the 2009 Pio thread and then comparison threads, info is spread all over the place on these new units.

So you're saying that for $300 bucks (SC-27 > 25) You get the THX Ultra2 moniker, an additional Coax & HDMI input, and the BurrBrown Sample Rate converter? They don't change the power supplies to the ICE chips, or anything else in the amp section to achieve better power production in order to meet the THX Ultra spec. for 4ohm loads across multichannel? I guess at this point this is my biggest worry.

According to Pio's spec's the SC-25 does have 2 HDMI outputs, where the 05 didn't.

Since use of PQLS requires a Pio BDP, that for me is a maybe. ASR and Optimum Sound are nice, but nothing I really need. However, ACL to combat the ridiculously loud commercials DTV passes is something I would use.

The thing that get's me is there are so many different features basically performing what 2 Audyssey components accomplish. So I must ask how easy is it to switch these on and off, and does ACL work in any DSP mode barring THX loudness?
post #118 of 5240
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBDiver View Post

...They don't change the power supplies to the ICE chips, or anything else in the amp section to achieve better power production in order to meet the THX Ultra spec. for 4ohm loads across multichannel? I guess at this point this is my biggest worry...

I won't discuss the efficacy of A.L.C. or its ilk, as that is a feature I never use. Like graphicguy, I don't want the signal compressed to limit dynamic range.

However, the THX rating of Ultra vs Select is not something that should cause you much concern. THX does not decide these classifications on it's own. The manufacturer submits its product to THX for certification as one or the other, and THX decides whether it meets their criteria for that rating.

There is no apparent reason why the 05/25 could not have met the Ultra criteria. Pioneer simply didn't submit them for Ultra certification, no doubt for marketing reasons, the same rationale that caused them to rate the 05's amp 10 watts lower than the 07's. It is common practice in the industry to rate the same amp differently in different models. This is not unique to Pioneer.
post #119 of 5240
Quote:
Originally Posted by william06 View Post

I would strongly reccoment if you get this receiver return the LG and get the 23 a very nice match unless you can spring for the Elite 09. Good Luck.

Well, the LG went back today. Had a/v sync issues with it. So now I'm back in the bdp market, and the 23 is very much in the running. Thanks for the suggestion, william.
post #120 of 5240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfan424 View Post

There is no apparent reason why the 05/25 could not have met the Ultra criteria. Pioneer simply didn't submit them for Ultra certification, no doubt for marketing reasons, the same rationale that caused them to rate the 05's amp 10 watts lower than the 07's. It is common practice in the industry to rate the same amp differently in different models. This is not unique to Pioneer.

Useful knowledge, that. Thanks!
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