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Sony Bravia XBR4 - Negative Picture problem - Page 2

post #31 of 86
The easiest way to tell if a picture problem originates on the FB1 board is to go to a non high-def input and change the zoom mode. If the distortion moves in and out with different zoom settings the problem is on the FB1 board. The TCON or UB1 plays no part in picture zooming.
post #32 of 86
Display Veteran

Thanks for the test - I'll try to do it tonight and keep you posted.

Also do you have any picture or doc/pdf that has FB1 replacement guide for 52XBR4?
Do I have to be careful with any connectivity as I try to replace the FB1 board?

Thank you again for your help and time - I heartly appreciate it.

Regards
Networm
post #33 of 86
You will need to remove the shield from the FBU board to access the connectors. The connectors have locking devices so you will need to pinch them in order to release. If the connector does not come off easily, you have not disengaged the lock. Don't force anything and you will be OK. Once the shield is off and all connectors released, the remaining screws secure the board to the back of the panel. Good luck.
post #34 of 86
Thanks for the update - I appreciate that - by the way I connected camcorder (HDR-HC7 - Hi-Def) to my TV and played the video using the component cable and then I zoom in and out through remote and the distortion did move in and out along with the whole picture.

By the way should I try dish networks (non HDMI receiver) coax cable to see the same distortion persist or not?

Thanks
post #35 of 86
No, you've pretty much nailed it to the FB board with that one test.
post #36 of 86
Thanks, for the confirmation.
post #37 of 86
Display Veteran - I replaced the FB1 board and still the problem stays. I re-cabled back and tried everything - the problem still persist.

Any suggestions?
Do you want me to go to diagnostics mode and provide you some information from their?

Thanks
Networm
post #38 of 86
Display Veteran - any thoughts or suggestions for me?

I have the new board with me - which has blinking amber led (every 1 or 2 seconds) in the middle of the board. Does that help you here with any more suggestions that I should try ?

If the FB1 board is not the issue now - i can return it back to the vendor and get 70% of the money back for the part cost. Please advice.

Thanks
Networm
post #39 of 86
You may have a poor connection between the LVDS cable and the UB1 board. I've seen this problem with an LG. I ran the set with the back cover off and wiggled the cable at the UB1 board to duplicate and confirm.
post #40 of 86
See post #2 also – I believe the problem is related to T-CON (pixel driver) board, but it is really difficult to say.

Just clean all the contacts first and then proceed replacing the modules. I am not familiar with that TV. Usually there are ribbon cables feeding signals from the T-CON board on to the LCD panel. Make sure that you clean them properly. Use hard pencil rubber and rub the exposed copper contacts until they are shiny. Clean the left-over rubber bits with dry brush. Do not use any methylated spirits or contact cleaners’ sprays.

Do the same thing with contacts between T-CON board and "FB board".

Good luck
Boky
post #41 of 86
I wish this was a simple as a dirty connector. The picture you posted at the beginning of this thread definitely points to the FBU board as the likely supect. Most of the TCON problems I have seen in this chassis tend to cause a no-backlight condition and all of the UB1 failures (there haven't been many) cause no video at all. You did the first thing I would have done by trying the FB1 board first. Give me a day or 2 to check out some service records to see if anyone else has experienced this.
post #42 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by networm View Post

Display Veteran - any thoughts or suggestions for me?

I have the new board with me - which has blinking amber led (every 1 or 2 seconds) in the middle of the board. Does that help you here with any more suggestions that I should try ?

If the FB1 board is not the issue now - i can return it back to the vendor and get 70% of the money back for the part cost. Please advice.

Thanks
Networm

The amber LED you see blinking is for the A/V decoder. It is a heartbeat LED and should be blinking. I looked back 4 months and found 2 others who appear to have experienced the same symptom as you. In both cases the FB1board was replaced followed by the UB1. In both cases it ended up being the TCON board. Look on Ebay or shopjimmy and see if you can locate a TCON as it is not availble seperately for this model.
post #43 of 86
Thanks all for the replies.

Display Veteran - would you recommend buying the TCON in the link below?

http://www.shopjimmy.com/catalog/pro...h-t-con-board/

The Board # 404652FIX2HC6LV1.3

Would replacing the TCON board would be easy job? Anything that I should be careful of?

Also I'll try to put back the original FB1 board to see whether I see the Heartbeat LED blinking.

Also I'll post pictures of the symptoms on my TV later tonight.

Thank you all.
Networm
post #44 of 86
Display Veteran - I was finally able to go the service mode on my TV - and under self test - 005 T_CON has the value of 003 and rest all other options are all 00.

Also attached are the pictures I have taken showing the issues on my TV.

The first picture is taken just after turning on TV - no cable connected only power cable.

Just to brief - replace UB1 board - no good - replace FB1 board - no good - these pictures are taken after replacing these boards.

Can some one tell me what is T_CON 03 means here?
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post #45 of 86
If you can get the board from shopjimmy, get it. I did not know you knew how to enter the service and diagnostic modes. I would have had you do a couple of other tests to narrow down the location of this problem.

The number "5" you see to the left of the "TCON" line is the number of times the standby LED will blink red when the unit shuts down. The number "3" to the right is the number of times the failure has been detected. It doesn't have much to do with your problem since this failure is usually caused by a communications error with the TCON processor. It is not unsusual for errors to appear hear erroneously. You should clear the error code count while you are in there and I will assume you already know how to do this.

As far as replacing the TCON: Since you have already replaced the UB1 that is half the work. You'll have to remove it again to access the TCON. Be careful with the large flat connectors going from the TCON to the panel. When you remove the TCON, make sure you remove the shield and the board at the same time. There are lots of heat transfer pads between the IC's and shield and you want to make sure they go back in the right place when the new board is installed. Keep the new board and shield together when you re-install it.

I will try to send a PDF to your PM that shows how to replace a TCON board as it does not appear that I can attach it here. Since the TCON for this panel was never available, no R & R procedure was created. The one I have for you should be close enough.

P. S. That negative picture still doesn't look like a TCON to me but you never know what symptom can show up with the complicated circuits that are used now. The only way to know for sure is to put one in and see what happens! If the TCON fixes your problem this symptom will be added to the "known symptoms" database.
post #46 of 86
display Veteran - I sent you PM with my email address yesterday - can you pls email me back - whenever you get chance?

Thank you
Networm
post #47 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by display veteran View Post

If you can get the board from shopjimmy, get it. I did not know you knew how to enter the service and diagnostic modes. I would have had you do a couple of other tests to narrow down the location of this problem.

Well - i discovered it couple days back how to go in to service mode. Also I'm not expert on all these to be honest with you. Also I discovered following two things -

TV OFF - Display - Channel 5 - Vol UP - Power - shows different options
TV OFF - Display - Channel 5 - Vol DOWN - Power - shows different options


The number "5" you see to the left of the "TCON" line is the number of times the standby LED will blink red when the unit shuts down. The number "3" to the right is the number of times the failure has been detected. It doesn't have much to do with your problem since this failure is usually caused by a communications error with the TCON processor. It is not unsusual for errors to appear hear erroneously. You should clear the error code count while you are in there and I will assume you already know how to do this.

Well when I see the self check options that list has T_CON initially it showed 3 but now it has 7 - and what I discovered is every time I removed the cable between FB1 and UB1 board facing UB1 board the TV goes offline with 5 amber blinks and each time I do that the T_CON counter increases. I need help to know how to clear the error code count please. Any suggestions/web link I should look at?

As far as replacing the TCON: Since you have already replaced the UB1 that is half the work. You'll have to remove it again to access the TCON. Be careful with the large flat connectors going from the TCON to the panel. When you remove the TCON, make sure you remove the shield and the board at the same time. There are lots of heat transfer pads between the IC's and shield and you want to make sure they go back in the right place when the new board is installed. Keep the new board and shield together when you re-install it.

I am not clear enough though what I should be careful here with - and I apologize for being slow learner especially removing shield and the board (T_CON). Also not much clear about the heat transfer Pads between IC's and shield. May be picture with explanation will help here.

I will try to send a PDF to your PM that shows how to replace a TCON board as it does not appear that I can attach it here. Since the TCON for this panel was never available, no R & R procedure was created. The one I have for you should be close enough.

I sent you a PM with my email address - so send it whenever you can pls.


P. S. That negative picture still doesn't look like a TCON to me but you never know what symptom can show up with the complicated circuits that are used now. The only way to know for sure is to put one in and see what happens! If the TCON fixes your problem this symptom will be added to the "known symptoms" database.

Thanks for the suggestion even though your gut feelings says it is not T_CON - but I have no choice here but to give a try.

Display Veteran - can you help me with the service mode options - what are they and how helpful they are in identifying the issue I have with my TV? Any DOC that can explain would be great help.

Thank you
Networm
post #48 of 86
Display Veteran - the TCON board with the shield on 52XBR4 is way different then 46XBRs (PDF). Just want to let you know. Also do I have to worry about following statement -

"The reason is that each TCON board has data stored in it that is specific to the LCD panel that it's mounted on."



Does any one have experience replacing TCON on 52XBR4 and would like to share experience?

Thank you all.
post #49 of 86
The white balance, gamma and uniformity data stored on the TCON NVM will work in most cases. Only a trained eye with test patterns displayed can spot the difference. Since you already know how to enter the diagnostics history page (that's the volume down one) you can press "8" followed by "0" on the remote to reset the error history.

The document I sent you is typical of any 120HZ or 240HZ TCON. There will be a number of heat transfer pads from the IC's on the board to the shield. Just make sure they all go back where they belong. If any fall out when seperating the shield from the board, you can look at the inside of the shield and see where they were located before.
post #50 of 86
Display Veteran - I got good news - replacing TCON solved my problem.

After replacing the new/used TCON - the TV is back to normal. When I put back the original TCON back in again to verify and the symptom comes back. Hence I determine that I had a bad TCON. After I got the new TCON board install and cabled - my problem is gone.

Display Veteran and All,
I really appreciate your time and expertise!!! once again,
Thank you All.
Networm
post #51 of 86
It always seemed to me it was the T-CON problem from the early incarnation of this post - See Link #2....

Anyway, the most important thing is that you've learned a lot AND managed to fix the problem at the end.

Well done!

Boky
post #52 of 86
Glad to see you nailed it networm. This symptom is extremely rare for a TCON to generate. It is so rare that you and 2 others have had this symptom out of the hundreds of thousands of models in this category. All of the other complaints with similar symptoms were caused by the FBU1 board. Sometimes you have to change the components out to narrow it down and it is too bad you had to be the one to do this. The bright side is that you have something to share with others to help them out.
post #53 of 86
All, I am extremely thankful for your support and time, I appreciate it.

Regards
Networm
post #54 of 86
display veteran and/or exterme_boky.
I have the exact same problem with my 52XBR4 as networm, but the only difference is that in my case the "white negative screen" problem doesn't appear all the time. Sometimes the problem comes back within the hour, a day or a week. In most cases, if I disconnect the main power source and leave it off over-night, by the morning the TV starts working fine. One time even after leaving the TV unplugged for over a week didn't self correct the problem. Most posts indicating these kinds of problems state that after the TV warms up enough the TV works fine, but that isn't the case with my TV.
So, I am wondering if there is anything that I can check while in the Service mode (TV OFF - Display - Channel 5 - Vol UP - Power) to see if the problem with my TV is infact the T-CON board before I go down the path of replacing this board ? I am afraid that since this problem is intermittent, I may not find out for sure if replacing the T-CON board will fix the problem.
Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
post #55 of 86
If you have the exact same problem as networm (even though it is intermittent) I would suggest replacing the TCON. Bear in mind that these models came with 2 panel designs. All serial numbers beginning 80xxxxx had the original panel design installed and serial numbers beginning with 81xxxxx had the second generation. I’m not certain if the TCON boards between these 2 panels are interchangeable since I never attempted it. I will look into it.

I suggest you converse with networm to see what serial number he has and what TCON part number was ordered just to be on the safe side. There is no difference between the XBR4 and XBR5 other than cosmetics.
post #56 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsdhaliwal View Post

display veteran and/or exterme_boky.
I have the exact same problem with my 52XBR4 as networm, but the only difference is that in my case the "white negative screen" problem doesn't appear all the time. Sometimes the problem comes back within the hour, a day or a week. In most cases, if I disconnect the main power source and leave it off over-night, by the morning the TV starts working fine. One time even after leaving the TV unplugged for over a week didn't self correct the problem. Most posts indicating these kinds of problems state that after the TV warms up enough the TV works fine, but that isn't the case with my TV.
So, I am wondering if there is anything that I can check while in the Service mode (TV OFF - Display - Channel 5 - Vol UP - Power) to see if the problem with my TV is infact the T-CON board before I go down the path of replacing this board ? I am afraid that since this problem is intermittent, I may not find out for sure if replacing the T-CON board will fix the problem.
Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

The problem is most likely related to cold solder joint on T-CON board. The T-CON processor is placed on the T-CON board (that already has some solder powder) and the whole board is then heated up to melt the solder and make reliable contacts between T-CON board and processor pins. Sometimes this soldering gives away under heat and that is when the intermittent problems (like you have at the moment) start to appear.

You have two options:
1. Replace the T-CON board straight away and see if that fixes the problem
2. Let me know if you are knowledgeable about electronics and if you can distinguish boards and processors located on the boards. I will then explain to you how to be certain if particular chip is to be blamed. Like this you will not have to guess – you will find exactly which chip causes the problem. Just to warn you, you will have to work with powered TV (!!!)

Good luck,
Boky
post #57 of 86
display veteran,
Thanks so much for your reply.
I have been conversing with networm, but his TCON board # and the TV Model # match up as he has the G8 build of the panel. So, he didn't run into this mis-match of the Model -vs- Board # issue.
My 52XBR4 is a G7 build of the panel and because of that I think our TCON board #'s don't match up.

I have removed the TCON board from my TV, and there is no Part # on the board, but there is a board #. The Board # listed is 404652HHC8LV1.8
This particular board # is available from shopjimmy.com, but the problem is that it says that the Known TV Models that this part is for are 40XBR4 or 40XBR5.
Visually, if I look at the zoomed in image, it matches (location of IC's etc) with the TCON board off of my TV.
http://www.shopjimmy.com/samsung-lj9...-con-board.htm
Could you suggest, which TCON I should buy ?
Should I match the board # that came off of my TV or the one that shows as Known Model # 52XBR4/XBR5
http://www.shopjimmy.com/samsung-lj9...-con-board.htm
My 52XBR4 is an early build with the G7 Panel (Serial # 800xxxx)
I am wondering if in the early builds of the 52XBR4, SONY was using a common TCON board for the 40/46/52 XBR4's ?

So, would you suggest that I get a matching TCON board to what is currently in my TV (i.e. 404652HHC8LV1.8) or should I get the board # that is advertised for my Model # (404652FIX2HC6LV1.3)

The physical layout of the 2 different TCON boards is certainly different (visually speaking) and if that is the case would I also have to get a matching plate and the heat sink as well ?

If you could please look into whether the TCON board's between these 2 panels are interchangeable, I would really appreciate it.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks..
post #58 of 86
extreme_boky... Thanks for your reply as well....
If I am unable to find a new matching/compatible TCON board as a replacement, I will need to go in with the 2nd option you have offered. display veteran has offered to look into this for me to see if the TCON boards between the two builds are interchangeable.
I am fairly comfortable with electronics and if you could guide me through the process, I would certainly appreciate it. Just a note, that the TCON board that I removed from my TV matches up with this link here...
http://assets.shopjimmy.com/media/ca...lj9401956f.jpg

Thanks for all your time.....
post #59 of 86
bsdhaliwal

As you know, there were 2 LCD panels installed in this model. If your serial number starts with 80xxxxx you have the first version. The label on the panel (located on the upper right rear) will read “LTC520HC01”. If your serial number begins with 81xxxxx you have the second generation and the panel label will read “LTY520HE03. The TCON boards for both panel types are NOT interchangeable. In fact, the first panel design is no longer available.

Once it is established which panel you have you will need to be sure that you obtain the correct TCON. The problem is that sites such as shopjimmy use the OEM part number silk screened on the board. I can only identify the correct part by the Sony part number. I looked at the one they have on their website and it does not identify which panel it goes to.

Since networm ordered this TCON for his set and it fixed the problem you should find out what the serial number of his set is to identify which TCON he purchased.

I have access to both boards but will not be able to get to them until late next week since I am heading out of town. Once I have access to them I can read the part number on the board to properly cross it to the right panel.

FYI: If your TCON is the same type that networm installed, and your symptom is exactly the same (even though intermittent), replacing it should solve the problem. If you have the other type of TCON I would be suspicious, especially if the symptom is not exactly the same. Distortions that affect the overall quality of a visible picture are rarely TCON related.

As far as fixing solder connections on a TCON: All I can do is wish you luck. The timing control IC’s are ball grid array (BGA) which means the solder connections are directly under the IC and inaccessible to you. The only way to fix these is to remove the IC and replace it with another one and the specialized soldering equipment is rather expensive.

Just finding the location of the solder connection (assuming that’s what it is) is very difficult because you would need to run the TCON with the shield and heat sink removed. My advice is to not even bother with this option. The failure may have nothing to do with a solder connection and could be caused by an intermittent component.

The bottom line is that you need to properly ID your panel. Use netowrm’s experience to help guide you. If you are still unsure, don’t order the TCON until I properly cross reference the boards.

Good luck
post #60 of 86
display veteran,
networm's TV Serial # 814xxxx
The original/BAD TCON that networm removed from his TV had 404652FIX2HC6LV1.3 imprinted on his board. The new/replacement board that he ordered also has the same board #.
My TV has Serial # 800xxxx and the TCON board that I have removed from my TV has the board # 404652HHC8LV1.8

Please let me know if I have missed providing you with any information.

Thanks again for all your help !!
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