Official Sony BD Mega-Changer Thread: BDP-CX7000ES & BDP-CX960 - Page 101

Good news J... glad it all worked out!

So from what I read/interpret you are saying you sent in your out of warranty B stock unit and Sony fixed it without charging you a dime; sans the shipping of course (and you didn't send it in with a receipt!?)? If so that would certainly imply Sony knows this is a defect with the original batch of optical mechanism's and are willing to correct this issue without charge for anyone who requests correction!

Hey Kevin,

First of all, I wish to thank you again, personally, for your detailed journey through this mess of a problem as if it weren't for you and the information you presented on this thread, I never would've called and asked for repair as I didn't even think there was a fix available! So, again, thank you!

You are absolutely correct. When they offered the advanced exchange, before I interrupted the guy and asked to send mine in for repair (reasons disclosed in previous post) he did state I'd need to fax or email a copy of the receipt.

However, once I asked for mine to be sent in for repair, he not only didn't ask for a receipt, but I clarified by asking him if I needed to do anything or send anything else in other than the unit itself along with a note detailing the problem(s) and put the work order number on the outside of the box and was told that's all I need.

So... No receipt, clarified to make sure, and no charge, other than the cost of shipping it one way to them.

Pretty good deal, eh?

Also, in using the changer more, I still haven't had any issues at all and everything is working perfectly!!

What about yours? Do you also feel it loads discs a bit faster or it it placebo from knowing a newer optical drive was put in the unit?

Thanks,

--J

Sorry you're not getting a great turn-around, but I'm sure it will work out. Hang in there.

Honestly, I didn't know you could do that, using the RS-232 connection!

I'd love to do that for several of my discs. While my changer was down/gone I realized I mainly do use the same discs over and over, IE: Concert Blu-Rays/DVD's.

So I've thought about getting a server set up (in addition to the 7000es) for my favorite movies and all of my concerts.

I already use an HTPC for all my music and I'm in my theater now, using the HTPC to write this message, so it's the next logical step anyway.

This would cut down load times for commonly/frequently used discs but I haven't looked into it much yet.

If this is something you decide to do or even look into further, I sure would appreciate some more details! Especially if the discs can be copied directly from the 7000es! That would make things SO MUCH EASIER!!

Thanks,

--J

I have read all 3,000 + posts in this thread over the last two weeks and would like to thank everyone who posted. The information was both interesting and enlightening.

I have a client with a CX7000ES that was installed in December, 2009. The player has been "working" as designed and therin lie the problems.

First the 7000 and a couple of other SONY HT products owned by this client have caused me to take the following stand:

I will never recommend nor buy for myself another SONY HT product.

This does not apply to the SONY VAIO computers or the PS3.

There were a number of red flags that were not fully understood until the 7000 was installed:

1. No BD Live memory in a $1,700 unit. A USB Flash drive must be installed.

2. No way to use a keyboard to enter disc information for discs not in the Grace Note database. The lack of a keyboard interface indicated to me that SONY had great confidence that the Grace Note database was essentially complete and woul be updated in a timely manner.

Boy, was I wrong. Fool me once, shame on you SONY. Fool me twice shame on me!

The telephone pad data entry is an insult to everyone that brought one of these.

My client had some questions:

Why can't I pause a disc then watch another and then come back later to the paused disc and have the 7000 start where I paused it?

I explained the screwed up way that BD are programmed that prohibits resume on some discs.

I also told him that SONY didn't think of that for DVD and all that would have been required was enough flash memory set aside for each slot to hold the paused time code and firmware to save it and then read it the next time a disk was selected.

TiVo can do that for recorded programs and Netflix can do that for Streaming. Why not SONY on a $1,700 device?

I could go on, but that is enough about the 7000.

On to SONY specifically and other media providers in general.

The media providers still do not realize that the Barn Door is open and the horses are running free.

Instead of working on solutions that would allow honest purchasers of their products to use them in a convenient way, media companies are applying more draconian methods to prevent the theft of their intellectual property. These do not stop the thieves. The thieves are only slowed momentarily, much like a speed bump. The only people adversely affected are the legitimate purchasers of the product.

Products like the CX7000ES give media purchasers a "legal" way to enjoy their purchases in convenient way. Unfortunately, there are no currently available mega changers and there has never been a 3D mega changer. The only currently available way to achieve equivalent results is to rip the shiney media and a piece of streaming equipment. The legality of doing this is not consistent from Country to Country. In some Countries this is explicitly allowed, others it is explicitly illegal and in others it is not clear.

When a purchaser of a product is forced to use illegal means to enjoy the purchased product in a way that is convenient all that is required to be a "real" pirate is ripping disks that they don't own or down load files. The eye patch and ability to say aargh are already in place courtesy of the media companies.

Most of the posts to this post were created by owners of the products or people supporting owners. There are some posts from people considering a purchase. The consumers that are missing are those that might have purchased the products if the user interface was not so poor or those that have watched SONY destroy their brand over the last 10 years or so and no longer consider any products from SONY.

I suspect that we will never see another disk changer from any manufacturer and, as a consequence, many of us will become Pirates by ripping the media we own. Hopefully we will limit ourselves to ripping only the media we own.

You can not use the RS-232 of the CX7000ES, or even any other method, to copy discs from the 7000ES to a PC!
If you want to copy discs to a PC, then you will need to use the PC's own DVD/blu-ray drive and also some sort of copy/ripping program to do so.

And even if you could, you wouldn't want to. Even at a top speed of 115,200 bps, it would take over 500 hours to transfer a BD-25 (25 gigabytes).

Well, you can't do that! To copy the movies, then you need software based solution. Pioneer blu-ray recorder or this if you have lot movies. http://www.acronova.com/product.php?id=9&n=overview

Here is a post on J River media center http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=72741.0

J river does both movies and audio, and it is great solution. Cost is only $50. I use the Jremote app with my Ipad. http://www.jremote.net/
J river gives you a 30 day trial, but I found it to be the best.
I posted this on another forum, but you can build similar setup. Depends on where you want the HTPC. I recommend doing sans digital solution for large storage. . Just depends on the size of the server.
Here is a post based on a silent music server, but you can build something similar with sans digital as the nas.

Silent Music Servers

I have built 2 HTPC and 1 HTPC server in the past, but I am considering building a silent music htpc.
J River Media Center 17 has developed a new option for SACD ISO and DSD, so if you prefer an uncompressed format then read on.
Nvidia just released a new video card, that appears perfect for a silent pc build.
The new card is also aimed at HTPC builders, and ready for 4k video. Nvidia GT640 and here is the specs. http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gt640/specifications (This card looks best for silent htpc)
Not really a game card, but it be good for movies.

This site sells a prebuilt based on your specs for the music server. [URL=http://]http://www.goodwinshighend.com/silentmusicservers.htm[/URL]
Sound card depends on the your receiver or another option is a DAC and most use XLR connections. There is several options, so I would go to
Jriver media center forum and they have several posts on the available hardward.

If you have lot of media (CD, DVD, BLuray, etc), then get a NAS or large server. Sans Digital has some nice tower raids. http://www.sansdigital.com/
You can buy it Amazon.com. You will need hard drives. I usually get enterprise drives, because they seem to last longer from newegg.com
Edited by Nitro67 - 6/18/12 at 12:06am

I have had mine sitting new in the box for about 4 months. I hooked it up yesterday and enjoyed watching the extended version of "Troy" on it as played through my new Onkyo TX-NR818.

I am somewhat disappointed that I cannot use it for my Netflix streaming account (or at least it appears that way), but otherwise it seems to be an excellent device. I gave my son my Samsung Blu Ray with Netflix capability, so it looks like I will have to get something else that will hook me back up to the account or change it to DVD rentals or cancel out.

Do you have the 7000es, or the 960?

Thanks to you for the above info and to the others who replied to my optimistic question regarding using the 7000ES as a BR disk copying machine. Looks like there are no free lunches and I will just have to manually load 3-400 disks into a PC BD drive. That makes staying with the 7000ES much more viable. I hope the fix works as it was becoming unusable as it was with the disk load issues,

The 7000ES.

Well, I have the Nimbie and it worked great for my collection of 1500 CD's. [URL=http://]http://www.acronova.com/product.php?id=9&n=overview [/URL] Took around 10 days to do them all. WAV format, and the I also had around 400 dts cd's to do as well. Just load it up and let it go. Works great. The nimbie uses a Pioneer drive. I bought the one for CD and DVD's but you can get the bluray one as well. I am sure you could replace the drive rather easy. I spent around 3 weeks converting my collection with Itunes, but this works the best. Would it be worth it for 400 blurays? Probably not.
If you have a large collection, then cost is worth it. Have you tried a third party software? I don't have the issue with my (3) Sony 7000ES changers with Control4. I am sure someone has advised you, but all my 900 Blurays work fine. No invalid disk issues at all.
I do prefer to use Bluray changers for bluray movies. Seems the quality is better, but that could change with that new Nvida card.
Edited by Nitro67 - 6/18/12 at 7:23pm

Have you tried a third party software solution though the RS232? I don't have the issue with Control4, but here is what I do with Control4. I never use the media scanning option. I manually enter name into Composer HE, and then it will search for the cover. Although, Control4 updated their driver in January 2012.
I haven't had the issue since. Sony does have lot of issues with their products. The DVD and Bluray megachangers are hand built or what I heard. Although, Sony seems to cut corners on components, and this occurs on TV's as well. So, I don't intend to buy another Sony product.

I was lucky enough to buy the 7000ES very inexpensively a month or so before Christmas.

The reason I chose the 7000 was for the 7.1 audio output.

Initially I was very impressed with the quality of the player, but that was before I connected it to the internet and filled it with discs.

The first thing that really annoys me (unless anyone can tell me what I'm doing wrong) is that the player always loads a disc when you close the door. When I've finished watching a rental or borrowed disc, I close the door and it loads the first disc it can find. Admittedly I could turn the player off, but if I want to watch another movie with the door open I can't see the list of discs. It's stupid.

While I agree that having no internal memory for BD Live, and not including a USB stick, is very poor, it's commonplace. You can spend $1300 or more on a digital SLR and they include a 32MB chip if you're lucky, which is bizarre.

Adding or amending info to gracenote entries with the remote is a serious pain. I wonder if my remote is going to die based on the amount of button pushing. Is there maybe a learning IR keyboard out there, where you could program each key, so a capital A is one press of the 2 button, a lower case a 4 presses of the 2 button, and so on?

The implentation of disc labelling is I feel seriously flawed anyway. My Pioneer DV-F07 DVD player accepts a (PS2) keyboard. It remembers the disc info, so if I move the disc it updates the info automatically. And even after years in storage I plugged it in, added some DVDs and it remembered all of them. Even with the remote the joystick style letter selection seems better than Sony's idea.

I find it slow. Slow to start up, to switch off, to load DVD discs, sometimes so slow to load blu ray discs I once thought the player had died and once thought the disc was faulty. So, after removing that rental disc, then waiting for it to load a disc I don't want to watch, then stopping, then selecting the disc I do want to watch, and waiting....sometimes makes me want to slit my wrists.

For me, on a 55" plasma, at normal viewing distance, I don't really notice the difference between DVD and blu ray. Three feet from the screen the difference is obvious.

Presumably for DVD or blu ray this was the last mega changer we will see? perhaps I should buy a couple as spares for the future, despite its flaws.

The best way is to get a third party solution. Which allows you to use the RS232 (Control4, Cinemar, or MyMovies) I have Control4, but I just load up the changer. Then Control4 has software application called Composer HE. I add the titles in there, because I have better options in Gracenote. (Control4 uses Gracenote, but I can select various other selections. I can also manually input them in and add cover art. Control4 allows me to select the movies via cover art on my Ipad. So, it is rather easy. (I have 3 Sony 7000ES changers, so about 900 discs)
Oh, I catalog my movies via another software application. This is just a precaution, but I do recommend this practice.

PS2 keyboard was in the Sony DVP-777ES changers, but the 7000ES doesn't allow for the keyboards. (Although, you might try to see if a wireless keyboard would work. Typically, they use the USB slot, but never tried it (Anyone else try that?)) I can tell the difference between DVD and Bluray. Although, you might want to buy a Denon receiver (AVR-3313 or AVR-2313) I know the first one upconverts to 1080P or 4k TV. My Denon 5308 does 1080P, so I have my DVD players or HTPC upconvert to 1080P.

Yes, Sony is not going to build Megachangers anymore. (I heard they are handbuilt, so I am sure there repairs could be expensive)
Here is the next Generation for UHDTV that is going to come out. http://blogd.com/wp/index.php/archives/9496 NHK is developing UHDTV, and the next generation stuff are at the bottom of that blog. Here is NHK's official site on it.
http://www.nhk.or.jp/strl/open2012/html/tenji/index_e.html

There is pdf of that exhibition at the bottom that link above, but describes what is coming.
There is more papers on this topic, but it is rather detailed to read about. The audio is going to be expensive though. 22.2 channels, but it is based on 3D audio. http://www.nhk.or.jp/strl/publica/bt/en/fe0045-6.pdf

I took a quick look at Cinemar. The website said...

The MLS-7000es Changer Controller is Cinemar's solution to managing, controlling and viewing movies on one or more Sony BDP-CX7000ES Changers (not provided).
MLS-7000es Changer Controller
Price: US $2799.99

And I thought 'you HAVE to be kidding!'

To put things in perspective, I paid $600-650 for my CX7000ES.

I didn't see any pricing on the Control4 website, and I'm looking at MyMovies now. I don't have, or want, an iPad, and I'm wondering what these things bring in terms of improvements. Is it worth spending hundreds (thousands?) of dollars to be able to change the cover art? not for me. Does it speed up the loading of discs?


Re keyboards, I simply thought there might be an infrared programmable keyboard out there somewhere. Not a wireless keyboard, but a programmable IR remote that just happens to have a qwerty style layout that would simplify the typing process.

DVD vs Blu ray. I have a 1080p Panasonic 55" plasma, and at 12 feet I often don't notice the difference until I move closer to the screen. Why would I want to buy a Denon receiver? I avoid receivers like the plague! The CX7000ES HDMI goes direct to the TV, the analog outputs to the 7.1 input on the processor. The speakers are electrostatics/hybrids (Quad 989s for stereo and Martin Logans for surround).

As this is a thread about the BDP-CX7000ES, speculation on TVs and movies beyond High Definition (hold on isn't that how blu ray markets itself?) seems irrelevant. I don't believe any of my friends have blu ray players and most don't have 1080p TVs; there seems to be an assumption that a flat screen is HD. I can't see the point of even higher definition formats when blu ray has yet to surpass DVD sales, unless blu ray ends up being swept under the carpet and ignored.

BearUK, it appears MyMovies may be a better option for you than Cinemar (Cinemar is what I use). If you own a PC, the Cinemar software is primarily what you would need, the Cinemar Changer Controller is a stand alone solution that can control and combine multiple changers into one menu which does not appear to be what you want or need. My guess is you won't like the Control4 solution either for the same reasons you do not like the Cinemar, cost and capabilities that you are not going to use. I am unsure how you would control your changer with the MyMovies, perhaps something like Control4 is needed or a notebook or IPAD. I use an IPAD but I needed all the control functions for both the changers and all the other components I use. As Nitro67 posted, a third party application would address most of your complaints, but you will need software and something external to control the changer with.

Another solution might be procedural. Load the disc prior to wanting to watch it. Put the disc in the machine, go get a strong drink, and then when you come back you should be good to go. If not, simply repeat the above procedure until your movie is ready or you are no longer as concerned about the wait.

I just heard from Sony and my 7000ES has been repaired and is being shipped back to me today. According to the CS representative, they replaced both the the disk tray assembly and the "device optical drive". That goes a bit beyond what I was expecting and sounds promising; I will report back once I get it loaded up and tested with disks. Fingers are crossed ....

On another note, I only had 230 or so disks in the 7000. I loaded those sequentially and that left the tray imbalanced with a large gap on one side. I think I will load them with more even distribution this time to avoid any issues that imbalanced loading may have caused. Wonder if the operators manual says anything about that?
Edited by RMK! - 6/19/12 at 3:11pm

Control4 for the HC-300 is $700US and that comes with remote. the dealer does the setup for you, so there is a small cost there for the programming. The advantage with control4 is that it is home automation system, so I have the Control4 Thermostat, Lighting, 4 zones for other audio (speakers in other rooms), basically you can design the way you want it. My Movies just does movies, and I think that cost is $100 US. There is an Ipad app for My movies. Why do a third party solution? Well, I have around 900 Blurays, 2000 CDs, and 1500 DVD's. So I do it all now from one remote, and that is from my Ipad. Although, before the changers, I had bookcases full of movies and cd's, blurays. I had around 6 remotes, and was rather a pain. (Loading of discs? I am not sure, it is rather quick for me. Now trailers is another issue.)

I have a Sony 70" XBR2 LCOS TV, and I can tell the difference in the picture from DVD to Bluray. Bluray is more detailed, but my receiver is one of the best made Denon AVR-5308, and I have it set the resolution set for 1080P. If you had it set for auto, then you would be able to tell the difference. Auto would be based on a source that is DVD, so it only be shown at that 480 (NTSC). Denon AVR-5308 has an a Silicon Optix, Realta video processing chip in it. (So, all HDMI's on that receiver are upconverted to 1080P, regardless of the source) My speakers are Phase technology (fronts and center), side and rear surrounds are definitive technology, and subwoofer is Definitive Technology Super Cube reference http://hometheaterreview.com/definitive-technology-super-cube-reference-subwoofer-reviewed/
Well, with Bluray audio DTS-Master audio or Dolby TrueHD 7.1, then just say that I rock my house with movies. The Super Cube brings movies alive, as compared to my old subwoofer. Hopefully, you have an amp to drive those speakers.


NHK to Broadcast 2012 London Olympics in Super Hi-Vision 8K Ultra High Definition TV (UHDTV) http://www.electrictv.com/?p=11696 Actually, 4k is out in UK. Toshiba has the first one. http://www.home-entertainment.toshiba.co.uk/Televisions/3D-TV/55ZL2/ Well, 1080P will be like 720P soon, a forgotten memory. Bluray will be like DVD, so it will be still around. This one 4K projector from a company called RED, allows you to watch 1080P. So, you can still see everything. Just that eventually, you will upgrade like everyone else. I think Sky is testing 4k satellite.

BearUK, (Low Profile) explains on how My Movies works on the previous page. The negative that I saw in his post is that you have Windows Media Player running in the background. Control4 doesn't need to have a computer running, but it uses a hardware controller.

It would be nice if J River Media Center could control the Sony 7000ES, but you need a way to setup a driver for it. J River works great for audio, SACD, and movies. Although, it all software based. That is a $50 program, but for audio it is the best out there.

Considering the price I paid for the CX7000, under $650, and based on Sony's spectacular ability to mess up their products in small but significant ways, oh and that I absolutely DESPISE apple products, I should accept its slowness and occasionally crappy interface. If I'd paid close to $2000 I'd be very unhappy.

My Sony portable DVD player (region free) also has a small but annoying issue. There's no fast forward or rewind on the player. You have to take the remote with you if you want to rewind to hear that line of dialog you missed, or something toy didn't quite see. For a portable device I find that a serious omission. But that is Sony...

There is always a solution. You might have to ask in the forums over at My Movies, but they do offer android app. So probably work on one of the clone droids... Control4 has touchscreens, but rather expensive.

My Sony portable DVD player (region free) also has a small but annoying issue. There's no fast forward or rewind on the player. You have to take the remote with you if you want to rewind to hear that line of dialog you missed, or something toy didn't quite see. For a portable device I find that a serious omission. But that is Sony...[/quote] Well, that is advantage with my Ipad. I can just load up a new app, and watch movies on it.

Turns out, Sony isn't any better or worse than any other huge consumer electronics company. You will never get personalized service and attention.

Sony did right by me on this one. They replaced components and shipped my unit back to me in a reasonable amount of time. If the repairs resolve the disk load and scratching issues, then I will be very happy with the relatively slow load times, occasional Gracenote burps and the slightly awkward GUI. Simply put, the alternatives all have issues of their own ...

Do you have it back yet? Did you test it? Is everything working okay?

Keep us updated. Looks like you had two parts replaced and I only had the optical drive replaced.

Were you having other issues besides Invalid Disc?? I was, and noted them, as posted earlier, yet they only replaced the drive.

Mine has been working great though, with not one problem and I'm hoping it does last and stay that way for years to come. We'll see though.

BTW, speaking of load times, I truly feel with the new drive they used/replaced that the load times are a bit quicker. I don't know if it's placebo as I didn't time it before, or if it's just that before I'd have to try several times to get it to work and now it loads all discs the first time, but I swear I think it's faster.

Thanks,

--J

It is scheduled to arrive tomorrow. I will be loading disks and checking it out tomorrow night or Saturday depending upon available time. Yes, they apparently replaced the disk tray as well as the drive but I only described the load issue on the paperwork. When I was unloading the disks, I did notice that a number of them has scratches on the surface that must have been due to the 7000 as they went directly from the original packaging to the jukebox.

I have hope (based upon your experience) that I will have a functional device for a few months/years at least until HT computer storage and retrieval become more mainstream. Ultimately, that is where I would like to be as these types of mechanical devices will always be a maintenance challenge.

My thanks to you and the others here who helped get the word out about this "fix". I suggest that anyone who has this unit and has experience load issues, send their machine off post haste.

I own 12 Sony changers (6 DVP-CX985V / 6 BDP-CX7000ES) and have always placed my discs in the changers sequentially never skipping a slot. Have never experienced any issues with a given changer being unable to loading a particular disc as a result. The invalid disc issue with these Blu-ray changers by evidence of this thread clearly has nothing to do with someone loading the discs sequentially. Just my two cents.
Edited by Low Profile - 6/22/12 at 3:38pm

DVD and bluray have been mainstream for years on computer storage. I remember one forum that I was on back in 2007, people would store the media on the hard drive. Then they use VHS cases to store the hard drives.
I remember one person had 30 hard drives of movies back in 2007. Probably 500 gig hard drives then. Now people are storing them in NAS enclosures or on huge rackmount file server. Sans digital has the Tower raid, well, soon
Thunderbolt. http://www.storagenewsletter.com/news/systems/sans-digital-thunderbolt Once you have it in Raid 5, then you will be only access one huge drive.
Then just get J river Media center 17 that is the best that I found for all formats.
Edited by Nitro67 - 6/22/12 at 11:04pm

You are most welcome... always happy to give back on this forum (God knows I've been saved more times by others than me being on the saving side!).

I have had no issues so far and I would say my load times seem a tad quicker although in all honesty I haven't played with it too much since I have three of these 960's and moved all my discs to the third changer while the original was being shipped off for repair (which has now become my third changer after reinstallation in my rack).

Nice to know there could be others on this thread with a corrective option even outside their warranty period!

OK I put the 7000ES back in service today. Loaded 227 disks mostly bluray and it loaded every one including a couple dozen that were previously un-loadable. I started several disks and everything worked perfectly. Don't know if it is faster loading and don't care. Just very happy to have a functional player again :. I'd like to add my thanks to Krichter1 for blazing the trail .
Edited by RMK! - 6/23/12 at 6:22pm

Thanks for the info but I loaded the 7000ES in a more balanced config just in case. Keeping the weight evenly distributed seemed a good idea but probably unnecessary.

An HTPC is in my future and likely sooner than later. The prospect of manually loading and ripping 2-300 disks is what gives me pause.