Surge Protector recommendations - Page 22

They come in both flavors. There are CHSP modules you can add on. There are combination devices. Your phone lines should already be protected. Telcos have put surge suppressors in their network interface devices (NID), the telco box on your house, for decades. For the TV cables, you can get a combination device, or you can get separate surge protective devices that you just wire to ground at the panel. Some here would say that a simple ground block on the coax, grounded at the panel, is sufficient. Note that the key to an effective system is a short path to a good ground. Optimally, everything should enter the house near your electric service entrance so the ground path is short.

Never dealt with this situation. These devices usually attach through a 2-pole breaker. If that breaker is on-line whether you are on utility power or local power, then I would guess that you only need one. IIWY I would contact tech support at one of the manufacturers and ask them. Maybe somebody else here has some experience with this.

If you are interested in other manufacturers, I have had a Leviton device my on house for 10 years. Never had any damage to electrical equipment that I could pin or a surge before or after installing it, except before I had problems with incandescent lamps and dimmers, both of which it takes a 1500V or so surge to kill. After, no problems whatsoever for 10 years and counting. Just goes to show that an appropriately sized MOV-based device is good for 10 years or more service. Also goes to show that most equipment is not as susceptible as the surge protective device manufacturers would have you believe. And I have had lots of electronics for many, many years, and more computers that I care to remember. Of course I live in an area with relatively few nearby lightning strikes. Might be different somewhere else.

Thank you again, Colm! Great advice!

[quote=Neurorad;19691524]And I found an interesting tidbit...

Bill Whitlock is President of Jensen Transformers, and Jensen Transformers are used to manufacture SurgeX equipment. And, Jensen is a 'partner' of SurgeX.

And, SurgeX is a proud sponsor of Syn-Aud-Con, used as a reference by Mr. McCook as a source "to learn more about everything audio".

And, Mr. Jim Brown of Audio Systems Group is a paid consultant. Paid by SurgeX.

Nope, no conflict of interest here.

Even greatly respected, intelligent educators can be bought.

----idiot stops talking here-----------------------------

Jensen has nothing to do with SurgeX products, never has. However you are correct that the gods of audio are conspiring to confound you with the truth. Those other SynAudCon sponsors are quite the bunch of hacks too.

For those wanting to know the truth and the proper electrical wiring practice for AV systems read this white paper by Jim Brown with Audio Systems Group: http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/SurgeXPowerGround.pdf

Regarding AV system interfaces, read the white papers of Bill Whitlock with Jensen Transformers: http://www.jensen-transformers.com/apps_wp.html

Both of these gentlemen are experts in our industry, are active members of the AES and are driving forces on global standards committees. Both are available for direct communication.

For those further inclined to learn more about everything audio, take a SynAudCon course www.synaudcon.com

I remain available for direct communication regarding surge protection.

Michael McCook
SurgeX International
Office: (+1)610-847-4956
Direct: (+1)267-251-6119
Fax: (+1)610-847-4955
Michael@SurgeXInternational.com
Skype: michael.mccook
www.SurgeXInternational.com

gwblack if you're not interested in a 'whole house' surge protector that you need to call a electrician to install, then a SurgeX plug-in unit by your home theater is the best unit you can get...

The SurgeX SA1810 is selling for $300

Some other models are:

SurgeX SA966
SurgeX XS10
SurgeX XS-6

http://imsproav.com/main/Search-Resu...hString=surgex

They sell within $250 to $380

A 'Whole House' surge protector you can get at Lowe's or Home Deport for anywhere from $150 to $600, but just make sure you have a licensed certified state electrician put it in.

Thank you for the advice. From what I've read here lately, it seems a decent "whole house" protector, along with basic "point of use" protectors, may be best for my application. If not, please let me know what I'm missing.
Thanks!

Why is so much money better protection? The most expensive protectors do not even claim much more than near zero protection in their spec sheets. You want what is done in munitions dumps, your telco switching center (CO), commercial broadcasters, 911 emergency response centers, etc. IOW you want something from responsible companies such as Leviton, Intermatic, Siemens, Square D, General Electric, etc. Not garbage from APC, Monster, Tripplite, etc.

So go to Lowes or Home Depot. Ask for a less than $50 'whole house' protector. Then view spec numbers. It must be 50,000 amps or higher so that even lightning strikes cause no damage.

Either you install it or you have an electrician install it. And have earthing upgraded to both meet and exceed post 1990 code. Same protection exists in any facility that can not suffer damage.

That is your 'secondary' protection system. The protector costs about $1 per protected appliance - even from direct lighting strikes.

Now inspect your 'primary' surge protection system. A picture of what to view:
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html

Protection is always about connecting a protector short as possible to earth. It is that simple. And even why munitions dumps do not explode with each lightning strike. Show me anything inside the house that can provide equivalent protection. Does not exist. Protectors adjacent to appliances sometimes makes appliance damage easier - especially if a 'whole house' protector does not exist or has inferior earthing.

Here is a forum thread from someone who DIY'd their whole-house surge suppressor install:

http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/ind...3&#entry110663

I'd look to products from Eaton.

Thanks, looks like a good read, I saved it to my Favorites list.

Interestingly, my local HD and Lowes don't sell whole house surge devices.

But, they're readily available at every electric supply store.

Wrong. If you understood what the spec sheets actually said, you would know better also.


A direct hit will destroy any whole house unit. Period. You speak garbage.



A whole house unit will not survive a direct strike..especially a return stroke.. You spout garbage.


The only thing that a short earth ground can do is limit the reference voltage at the point of connect. It has NOTHING to do with line to neutral or line to ground, or line to line surges or transients.


If it were simple, you might understand it.

What you spout is lies. Plain and simple. And if others are correct, you spout lies to drum up personal business.

Cheers, John

jneutron, who do you work for?

what is YOUR bias?

It matters not. I will confirm that I do not sell any surge products, I do not specify any surge products. I do not recommend any particular surge products. I do not sell wire, nor do I sell anything. I do not work for anybody in the audio field. I have assisted some vendors of wire and speakers who requested such things..but have received no compensation for anything I have freely given.

You, as well as every other person who reads my posts, must use your own intelligence to determine the accuracy of my statements. If you question the accuracy of anything I state, ask me publicly and I will provide complete answers to all questions to the best of my ability. If it involves code, I will cite chapter.
If it involves maxwells equations, I will clearly specify.
If it involves math, I will show it.
If it cites a paper, such as Martzloff, I will quote exactly what I say.
If it requires I draw a schematic or drawing, I do so.



Safety.


I cringe when I see wannabe "experts"...ones with no formal training on a topic, attempt to dazzle others with copy and pastes..edit: (Specifically, when such actions are being used in an attempt to support statements which are dangerously incorrect.)

As to your questioning my expertise, my abilities, and my agenda...there is nothing wrong with you asking these questions, that is exactly what should be done.

Cheers, John

ps. Have a safe and prosperous new year.

So basically you're just a regular bloke like all of us? Welcome to the club, cheers mate, now get me a beer and pass the chips.

[quote=jneutron;19728515]It matters not. I will confirm that I do not sell any surge products, I do not specify any surge products. I do not recommend any particular surge products. I do not sell wire, nor do I sell anything. I do not work for anybody in the audio field. I have assisted some vendors of wire and speakers who requested such things..but have received no compensation for anything I have freely given.

You, as well as every other person who reads my posts, must use your own intelligence to determine the accuracy of my statements. If you question the accuracy of anything I state, ask me publicly and I will provide complete answers to all questions to the best of my ability....."

You Rock John, and I think we've brought sanity to a thread held captive by a hand full of idiots.

I remain available in the forums 4th dimension of live conversation.

Cheers,
Michael McCook
SurgeX International
Office: (+1)610-847-4956
Direct: (+1)267-251-6119
Fax: (+1)610-847-4955
Michael@SurgeXInternational.com
Skype: michael.mccook
www.SurgeXInternational.com

Never said otherwise.

Been an EE since '77. Currently making really interesting stuff in a job that I enjoy very much because it is intellectually stimulating and amazingly esoteric. But where I work is not a bludgeon. What is explained is what needs be considered and questioned.

Presently, I despair at the level of scientific and engineering understanding of the last, the current, and the next generation of kids. As such, I try to take some small part in the scientific education of our young. Sometimes it requires updating the profs as well..sigh



mmmmm,, beer..

Cheers, John

While one or two may deserve that handle, for the most part..everybody here has been quite intelligent. It's always an interesting and colorful discussion when professionals are trying to explain to laymen some aspect of their expertise. For me, I try my best to explain at the necessary level without condescension edit: (If I happen to be the subject expert, and patience when I am the one with no understanding of the topic)..(sometimes I succeed at that..sometimes not very well.) Even westom brings something to the table.. imagine how boring this thread would be without him?


You don't mean...

The dimension of sight....the dimension of sound...

The dimension of ......mind?

Cheers, John

Michael McCook - Power Factor...

I got my SurgeX XF2 yesterday, plugged it into my plasma and cable box and it's working fine, it's great quality, sturdy, in a metal frame chasis, no cheap plastic. It's a good piece of mind to know a high quality product is protecting my electronics. I think maybe the SurgeX lowered and reduced the plasma buzz and made the tv a little more quiet and that's pretty cool.

Not to nit pick, well maybe a little, just some customer recommendations...

The lights on it are extremely bright, the side of the unit that has the lights is facing the wall underneath my entertainment center and it's lighting up the back wall, pretty big noticeable glow, so I put two pieces of tape over the lights to dim them, I still see a faint glow but it's good now. I can't mount it behind my plasma because it's a 60" inch plasma, weighs over 135 pounds and it's wall mounted with only about 3 and a half inches of room between the wall and the back of the tv, plus the big metal wall bracket.

But if in the future SurgeX could offer a dimmer for the lights would be great or just reduce the brightness level.

The circuit amp the SurgeX is plugged into is a 15 amp on a 14 gauge wire, it's powering these components:

Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-151FD 60" inch plasma
Comcast HD cable box
4 recessed ceiling lights on a dimmer
Hallway light

Am I stressing the SurgeX at all?

I know, I know I should have had a dedicated line put in for the HT but the electrician wired everything that way. He was following code.

Everything on that circuit I would guess is around 1000 watts? Am I stressing the SurgeX XF2?

Thanks. Regardless of what camp I may be viewed in, you said eloquently what I had posted in a much less so way, and then deleted, regarding that comment by Mr. McCook.

I respect the style by which you post.

oppopioneer, I purchased the SurgeX SA82 for my front projector in my home theater. I also noticed smoother image/better colors maybe do to the normal/common mode noise filtering. My brother recently spoke to a SurgeX tech who informed him if the surge protector is pushed too hard you may hear a humming sound/vibration emitting from it. Otherwise your probably OK. You may want to confirm this with SurgeX. I recently had a chance to compare the SA82 to the AC-215A, Furman's equivalent device. The Furman was slightly less smooth, yet more sharp/brighter image compared to the SurgeX. So both surge devices had their own good points in the video department.

I have my plasma tv and cable box plugged into the SurgeX XF2, if I unplug the cable box from the SurgeX and plug the cable box into the wall outlet and left the tv plugged into the SurgeX will the cable box effect the tv in a negative way with a bad surge? The only thing connecting the cable box to the tv is a HDMI wire. Maybe I should take some stress off the SurgeX and unplug the cable box from it?

I have my LCD TV, Amp, and subwoofer at the entertaiment center connected to a Furman P1800PF. This surge protecor has Power Factor correction. It stores 45+amps in reserve when your amp/subwoofer really need it. On a busy 15 amp line that extra 45 amp burst can come in handy. The cable box, game consoles, wireless bridge, and Blu-ray player are plugged into a BrickWall series mode protector. Also, I installed a TII 212 whole house cable coax surge protector at the service entrance of my home. All this protects my equipement pretty well. In summary, yes you should have as many of your electronics as possible, at your entertainment center, surge protected.

Did you use a colorimeter with a reference video test pattern to measure changes in purity, saturation, black levels, lag, slew etc? That is the ONLY way to accurately and reliably measure the image.

I would love to hear the explanation of how any common mode noise makes it through a high current switching power supply since there is NO connection to the neutral whatsoever in a switching power supply and the entire circuit is a fully balanced "secondary" providing multiple ripple-less DC voltages.

What should I do about my SurgeX XF2 and my tv and cable box plugged into it? I think I might be stressing the XF2 and I'm thinking of unplugging the cable box out of it and plugging it directly into the wall for now and only have the tv plugged into the SurgeX. Now can a bad surge from the outlet that goes into the cable box hurt the tv when the tv is plugged into the SurgeX and the only thing connecting the cable box and tv is a HDMI wire or is my tv isolated from the cable box? Do bad surges travel through HDMI wires to the connected equipment?

You can do much better than the TII. There are superior coaxial protectors on the market that the U.S. govt uses and professional radio towers use to protect their cables that can handle more watts.

Industrial Communication Engineers (I.C.E.) http://www.iceradioproducts.com/

Alpha Delta http://www.alphadeltacom.com/

Polyphaser http://www.protectiongroup.com/Home

This can be used at the breaker box:

LEVITON 51110-PTC http://stopsurges.com/LEVITON-51110-...-51110-PTC.htm

Talking to Michael McCook we talked about coaxial protection at the service entrance...

At the service entrance the surge diverter should be bonded to a copper rod in a grounded steel conduit. The rod should be 3 feet or less. Michael can explain it better than I can.

NEC requires that a ground rod be at least 8' long and be driven to a minimum of 8'. It requires a minimum of two ground rods if the first one doesn't test to 25 ohms or less. Most installers just drive two ground rods. There are other effective grounding means. My local jurisdiction requires Ufer grounds for new construction and upgrades. A grounding electrode system that meets NEC requirements is not necessarily sufficient for adequate surge protection. But a grounding electrode system that does not at least meet NEC requirements almost certainly isn't sufficient for adequate surge protection.

The ground rod is driven directly into the ground. It is not encased in conduit. The grounding electrode conductor is required to be in conduit if it is less than a certain size. If that conduit is metallic, it has to be grounded. It is better to use nonmetallic conduit if your local code does not disallow because steel conduit increases the inductance of the grounding electrode conductor.

The connection from the surge protective device to the ground rod should be as short as possible. Generally the only factor you have control over for an AC surge protective device is the length of leads to the panel. Longer leads mean a high let through voltage. You don't have much more control for other surge protective devices in many cases. Just mount it as close to the service entrance as possible and bond to one of the permitted locations.

Yes, what I think I got wrong was Michael was refering to the copper wire coming into the house to the breaker box should be as short as possible, not the rod driven into the ground.

The loads of your gear weren't anywhere near the rating of the SurgeX. Around 50-60% if I recall. It's not healthy to worry so much.

I'm sure their are better surge protectors for cable. But, I'm happy with the TII. It was easy to install/ground at the service entrance, has a good 1.5 ghz throughput, did not degrade my high def TV image, or limit my internet. Its also waterproof and emi/rfi shielded.

Gizmologist, no I did not use any test patterns. You see I have a Sony SXRD front projector with a nine foot wide Da-Lite "High Power" gain screen. Anyone who has this screen will tell you its very sensitive to light gain/drop. Its very reflective and obvoius to light change. This is how I noticed brightness/whiteness level changes in power cord and surge protector swap outs. These same swap outs on a standard plasma or LCD TV may not be noticable for they are much smaller, back-lit, and very bright to begin with. I even swapped out power cords to the SurgeX and Furman. I don't think you would like to hear the results so I will leave that out. As far as common mode noise filtering is concerned. Thats a question for SurgeX. What I can tell you is another member spoke to a Furman engineer regarding their top of the line IT-REF model which includes common mode filtering. The engineer stated that common mode filtering is a good feature to have in a power conditioner. You want to know anything beyond that talk to Furman. If common mode filtering matters not, why would these top end companies spend money and resources adding this feature to their products? Marketing? I don't think so, like ordinary people companies do not like to waste money.

lol