Official PS3-Slim Master Thread-Post all comments and questions here! - Page 8

You don't need to be un-intelligent to be "suckered" by placebo, you just need to be human. That's what many don't understand, so when one suggests it might be placebo, they get sort of offended. Placebo is way underappreciated. And that's why even if you know all about it and even if you suspect yourself, you still need to remove bias from your tests, in these cases by performing proper double-blind tests.

Which, unfortunately, are virtually impossible given the huge number of variables and the amount of equipment that would be required. Keep in mind that a proper ABX test requires instantaneous switching, and of course that the listener not know what the source being switched to is. That's the reason I give no creedence whatsoever to the anecdotal accounts presented by home users.

I don't challenge either their sincerity or their truthfulness about what they're hearing. I challenge their methodology. I'm sure they hear the differences they describe; it's that they are attributing those differences to a particular cause, and they have no basis or proof for that.

There is no case where changing from LPCM to bitstream doesn't also change several other factors (mostly in signal processing), all of which contribute to the overall sound, and any of which (or any combination of which) can account for the difference being heard.

And my contention is that it doesn't really matter what causes there to be a difference in the sound, a difference that most that hear one describe as "better", only that there is a difference. I have never argued theory, only practical application. If, in practical application, there is enough difference in the entire audio chain of internally decoding hi-res audio in the PS3 and sending native bitstream to a given external decoder (receiver) that results in a different sound coming out of a given speaker, and that sound is perceived by the listener as "better, or "preferable", then the final analysis is "bitstream is better". Why it's better is really immaterial, at least it is to me.

I think that's a valid position to take, as long as it isn't extended past one's personal experience. The problem is that the "bitstream is better" meme has infected the Internet, still without any testing to back it up. And as with all articles of faith, it's real if you believe it.

It doesn't matter to me, of course, what people do with their own equipment. What bothers me -- just as it does when Grampa sends his life savings to a Nigerian "prince" or Auntie Mae pledges $100 a week to Rev. Holypants on TV -- is when people spend extra money to get an AV feature that they don't need and that makes no difference. This is less a problem now than it was a year or two ago (and certainly doesn't apply to the Slim, which is now an extraordinary bargain), but I still think it's a shame (but not a surprise, considering who profits) that the much simpler, cheaper, and more transparent LPCM standard isn't universal.

Well said. Unfortunately, once they have "[spent] extra money," it only serves to infuriate them further to hear anything otherwise. I do feel it's always worth pointing out, particularly as there are many lurkers here who never post and we wouldn't want them misled, but I've discovered it's tough to convince those who have spent the money. They have to believe, and since they are enjoying the same sound quality us LPCM'ers are, I suppose it's a good thing.

Seems Sony will release another FW update.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/102/1021710p1.html

Doesn't say anything about the bitstreaming issue, guess we just cross fingers on this one.

Just purchased a Slim this evening. My 60GB PS3 is annoyingly loud. Quite impressed with the unit as far as being silent whilst playing a BD. But am having the following issues. (have a Pioneer 1019).

1. Master and Commander has no audio when Slim is set to Bitstream.

2. My logitech adapter is freezing sometimes when I start, so I have to start the Slim manually.

2. My Controllers do not work, not unless I start the PS3 with the Controller.

3. I'm playing Uncharted which is freezing constantly. My 60GB played the game with no problems.


I'm not going to sell the 60GB. This is a launch Slim with too many irritating problems. Anyway the store has a 90 day return policy so I have plenty of time.

At least its quiet.

1. I'm starting to wonder if the Slim/DTS-MA issue is specific to certain Pioneer AVRs.

Can't help with either #2.

3. That's being widely reported; Sony's already talking about an updated update. See the link two posts up.

Of those reporting a problem, those that have posted a brand, it has been Pioneer. In the poll thread, the two responses with issues so far are with Pioneer AVRs, the now the one above.

Still a Sony problem, mind you, since there was no reported problem with the previous firmware. I returned my updated console for another one and did not update and it works fine. I am anxiously awaiting the next update to see if it fixes the problem for these other Pioneer owners. Otherwise, I may say "to hell with it" and buy an Oppo.

rdclark is correct on #1 and #3. Hopefully Sony will fix them in the next firmware update. However #2 is a tricky bugger. It seems that the Slim does NOT like the Harmony adapter and can causes BT disconnects which is your 2B question. So...unfortunately, like the IR2BT when it came out, logitech didn't put a place to upgrade firmware. This means that unless Sony acknowledges that they there is something different in the BT for the the Slim, and comes up with a firmware fix to help the adapter (they didn't for the IR2BT device), it will all be up to logitech to make a firmware update and recall all the devices for a designated upgrade. No matter how you spin it...this makes the Harmony adapter look really bad that it's not compatible with ALL PS3's, just the fat ones.

I tested Master and Commander using bitstream with no issues. I have a Pioneer Elite VSX-91TXH. Perhaps certain newer models of Pioneer are affected by the firmware?

That is a possibility. My SC-07 is a generation newer than the 91, and the other model reported is a 1019, also a new model.

I'm vacuuming my 60GB PS3 and then try it again to see if the noise continues. Actually the noise is not very audible when the Blu Ray disc is playing.

Playing through PCM doesn't bother me as I still get the same audio quality.

But the $80 CDN Logitech adapter problem is a bummer, so I have reverted to my Sony Remote.

As much as I like the Slim, I somehow fell reassured by the heft and solidity and backwards compatibility of the 60 GB version.

Just my opinion.

I just got a slim and am having some issues with bitstream too. I have a Pioneer Elite SC-05 and when I set PS3 to bitstream some of my blu-ray discs have no sound. If I push pause and restart or go into the settings and switch from bitstream to PCM and then back to bitstream again, the audio comes back. Also, if i'm watching a bluray and fast forward, I sometimes lose audio from doing that. Just thought I would post my findings as well.

I have an 01, same problem. So, 2008 and 2009 models so far...

That's a bit annoying. With the original PS3 the only way to play TrueHD or DTS HD was either from a BluRay disc or from a m2ts file encoded in AVCHD format, either on a USB drive or burnt on a DL or DL DVD. And for a USB drive, you would have to format the drive as FAT32 and for both then use something like multiavchd to cut the m2ts files into 4G chunks, though the jump between segments was seamless since the BD format supports seamless branching etc.

Well my Slim stopped working. I inserted Resistance Fall of Man and the game did not boot up. Ejected the disc a few times and had no luck. I then removed the disk and there was still no XMB on the TV screen. I shut off and started again, just a black screen. I unplugged and re-plugged but no luck. It seemed to be trying but no success. I could not be bothered to troubleshoot a brand new unit.

I drove to BB (10 mins away ) and exchanged it for an Open Box which was selling at $250 CDN.

Meanwhile, after cleaning and vacuuming, my 60GB PS3 seems much quieter. Anyway the Slim for $250 is a good deal.

Why did you exchange it for an open box? The thing is under waranty and could have been sent to Sony for a brand new one.

I, personnaly, would never accept a used product in exchange for a device under waranty.

#1. I have an Onkyo 605. I heard this receiver has problems with post processing (Audyssey, bass management, etc) on decoded PCM. Is this true? It was one reason I wanted the slim for bitstreaming. Now im hearing the opposite but any info is appreciated.

#2. Im currently running 3.1 since I have to replace my back speakers. What settings should I have selected in the audio options menu? Should I uncheck all 7.1 options? This also applies when I get my 5.1 system running, should I just have everything up to and including 5.1 checked? My only concern would be native 7.1 encodes, and the receiver leaving out info that would have been sent to the extra two speakers. Probably a dumb question, but if that doesnt happen, why not just have 7.1 the only option.

I returned it and purchased the Open Box. They refunded me $50. At BB I can return within 30 days if I so wish.

No problems with DTS-HD MA bitstreaming with my PS3 slim & Yamaha RX-Z11

I experienced the DTS-HD MA bomb issue with Harold & Kumar with my PS3 Slim - Pioneer Elite 94.

For me, so far other DTS-HD MA blu-rays including Hanna Montana the movie, Role Models, The Orphanage and Narnia Prince Caspian have been issue free.

I just ordered the Logitech Harmony adapter for $42 shipped, but after reading this thread I'm concerned that there are compatibility issues with firmware 3.0. Since, I updated both my fat and slim, my adapter will most likely have issues on both units.

There are absolutely no compatibility issues with the Logitech adapter and the Phat Ps3 (my 60GB plays fine). The adapter was built for the Phat PS3 so all the updates have had no effect on my Phat PS3.

Its the Slim hardware, I think, that is affecting the adapter. If you intend to keep the Slim personally I would advise to purchase Sony's PS3 remote until Logitech manufactures a new Adapter compatible for the Slim and Phat.

At the present time I have my 2 PS3s on separate shelves for testing. Starting the Slim, watching DVDs etc. with the Logitech is no problem. But to play a Game the Controller will not sync until I unplug the Logitech.

With the 60 GB version, no problem, no matter which update.

So I use the Logitech on the Slim and the Sony Remote on the Phat.

For that reason I might return the Slim OR I have a $79.99 CDN Logitech Adapter as a Paperweight.


I'm also not sure whether Sony Actually built the Slim to bitstream or it was one of these wonderful flukes. Sometimes, my BluRay disc, plays perfectly with Bitstream and sometimes not. Same disc, Master and Commander.

The Slim puzzles me. On the one hand it is Slim, slightly quieter than the 60 GB when at rest. But after playing a movie there is a slight, but noticeable, hum. I purchased it for the noise factor. Side by side it is smaller than my 60GB. But I do like the heft and reassuring solidity of the Phat. Plus I like the 4 USB Ports on the 60 GB. But it is noisier after a while. Maybe I'm nitpicking or perhaps I'm just annoyed over the adapter.

Im using a Logitech 880 with an IR2BT adapter on my PS3 slim & it works great.

Was it the true bomb or did the audio pop every once in a while? The "audio pops" problem on this disc is a known issue.

Yes it is hardware at this present moment. People in the gaming threads have used it on 2.76 and 3.00 FW to the same results.


I would put a tone of pressure on logitech in asking for a refund. You have to look at it this way. It's advertised as a PS3 adapter. The slim is PS3. No where does it say it can only be used on the fat models. Sony can tweak with its BT settings all it wants. It's their device. Logitech is the 3rd party here. I'm willing to bet, much like the IR2BT fiasco, Sony doesn't give a care to the fact that it doesn't work with the slim. They want you to buy the BT remote. I can say that so far of all the IR to BT devices this is the only one that has the problem right now. In fact is the only BT device to not work with the slim well right now. My controllers work just fine. PS3 remotes work fine. BT headsets work fine. Other IR to BT convertsers work fine. So Logitech really screwed something up in their BT design and code. They really F'd up in not including a way to do firmware updates over the internet like the remotes. Your right, you've got a $70 brick right now, and if history repeats itself...Logitech will recall them, Sony will deny there is an issue with BT, and in 1 year on some random update the damn thing will likely start to work again.


Please list your AVR...many of us are not having any issues with DTS-HD MA. It seems isolated to Pioneer AVRs.

I have the slim and an Onkyo 605 and I have no problems bitstreaming DTS-HD MA. Is the problem on all DTS-HD MA titles?

I also purchased Drake's Fortune and I have not experienced any freezing issues. Is there a certain place the game freezes?

Pioneer 1019 is my AVR. I know the Slim has an aversion to Pioneer. Its Sony's revenge for building better Receivers than them. I'm not very particular about seeing "TruHD" light up in my AVR. Since the PCM signal gives the same sound it does not matter to me whether the PS3 or AVR does the audio conversion.

BTW you can still use the Logitech Adapter with SLIM. When playing Games just program the Harmony to start only the TV and AVR. Then start the SLIM with your controller and play the game.

When watching DVDs just start as usual (PS3, TV and AVR).

As long as the Adapter is not operating, the Controller is allowed to work.

I spoke too soon. Drake's Fortune just froze on me. This sucks.

It appears to be DTS-HD MA titles with firmware 3.00 and a Slim set to Bitstream and only select Pioneer AVRs. Otherwise it works just fine.


Yeah, but this sort of defeats the point of the adapter. You can't just change activities in the remote and off you go. It still works sure. But its at a sever handicap right now.


This is a very well known issue right now with Sony. They are working on a fix AFAIK. As for a standard freeze point, mine always froze just as you were to enter the tunnel in the catacomb level after getting lifted out of the pit of the zombies. Always froze the first time through and not the second. But the issue you are having is a major playability problem with FW 3.00.