xx7 Onkyos versus XX10 Denons

There's really no doubt about it, the 807 is definitely one of the strongest contenders in the $1000 range for feature set and specs. I own a 875 and the 8xx series have always been built well (the 8x5 series even more so than the newer ones). I did find my 875 to run exceedingly hot so I was happy when my new Denon feels very cool to the touch. I chose Denon this time just because I knew it would work well with my combination of tv and source devices (since I had HDMI handshaking problems with my Onkyo)

Sound wise I feel Denon and Onkyo aren't far apart, they both sound good to my ears.

Just a note, there is a thread on the Denon 4310 in which a corrupted update has DOA'd many of these units. Completely inexcusable and the non-answers Denon reps were coming up with at the time were also quite lame. This kind of thing tilts the scale in Onkyo's favor.

I bought a 2310

On paper it seems like a huge downgrade from my 875 which I paid $1299 for, but I'm very happy with it sound wise. Except for the downgrade in power, I don't feel I lost anything sound quality wise except for maybe the loss of MultEQ XT to MultEQ which probably gave me slightly better results (but it seems Onkyo is also skimping on XT now as well)

What I like about my Denon, is that it gives me Audyssey Flat target setting which my Onkyo didn't. And as well it did all the menus and status displays overlay over HDMI which I don't believe the Onkyos do except for the Reon models (correct me here if I'm mistaken).

I think you can't really go wrong with either brand in terms of getting good bang for the buck. I wouldn't hestiate to recommend either in terms of sound quality and useful features

Thousands and thousands of happy Denon owners

Thousands and thousands of happy Onkyo owners

Flip a coin and just find the best deal!

if you want to debate power buy and external amp for get more effecient speakers. Power debates wrt to AVRs is like arguing which one legged duck swims faster....NEITHER! BOTH swim in a circle!

btw, I own both Denons and Onkyos!

Did you see the classified for the Onkyo 876 going for $875?? Seems like a no brainer if someone is looking for a high end AVR under $1K!!!

ah, cool!

Do all the new products have plIIz? I havent bother to research anything this year. PlIIz doesnt excite me yet.

As I said, I don't really feel I've downgraded at all in sound quality. Of course, the 875 kills the 2310 in sheer headroom as it should. With my 2310, I feel I'm using at least 50% of its headroom daily, whereas with my Onkyo I feel I'm not tapping even 1/3, it sounds effortless even when I crank up up way past reference.

Denons have always been good to me sound quality wise, and this one doesn't disappoint either. I'd say find the cheapest Denon or Onkyo that meets your needs and flip a coin (or choose based on price alone). What I like about the Denon (like some of the things I've mentioned above that are not always obvious in the specs), I've discovered through using it, not reading spec sheets. If the Onkyo addresses the issues of Audyssey Flat, per-input video settings (yes I think), GUI over HDMI, fast HDMI handshaking, all features I like in the Denon, I would have easily considered the 707 or 807 as well before I bought the Denon.

I returned a 2310 to Abt due to these three issues:

1. The GUI didn't work when the receiver was powered up (the GUI was set to "on" for all of the inputs that I used). I had to select another input, and then go back to the original input, to get it to work.

2. There was a loud "pop" when I changed HD channels with my TiVo S-3s (the SD channels didn't do this).

3. When fast-forwarding thru the commercials of HD shows, recorded on my TiVo S-3s, the screen of my Panny 200 projector would turn blue (loss of signal), until I pressed play (the SD channels didn't do this). I need to see the commercials as they fly by, in order to know when to press play, when the show starts again.

I'm waiting for the Onkyo 3007 now. Hopefully, it won't have these three issues that the 2310 had, in my HT.

Is this common of most Onkyo's with Audyssey? I've been eyeing the Onkyo 707, but I use the Flat setting almost exclusively on my Denon.

I'd say it's an isolated issue. HDMI is very unpredictable at best. I used to have ZERO problems with my Onkyo 875 and then I bought a new TV and then all of the sudden I had all sorts of problems with the signal syncing.

The GUI disappearing from time to time is a more widely reported issue (I've had it happen to me a few times), but it doesn't affect operation and 98% of the time it works fine.

No popping with my Denon either. My Onkyo had a lot more popping going on.

As for Reon vs ABT, I can't tell the difference. Both are superb, and they are as good or better than the scalers in most TVs. However, having spent the money once on the Reon, I don't think I would do it again as the price difference increment wasn't worth it. For me, the ABT's real value is the ability of to do GUI over HDMI.

I think the thing I've learned about ANY receiver is that there are bugs or limitations in the software with ALL of them. If you feel that Onkyo will support patching the firmware in a timely fashion, you might as well stick to Onkyo.

Actually, if you select any of the THX post processing modes avaliable, Onkyo automatically switches from the default Audyssey target curve to FLAT. This has been confirmed by Chris from Audyssey, email him or search the Audyssey thread. The reason is to avoid double high frequency roll-off, (THX Re-EQ on top of the default Audyssey target curve).

Additionally, rickardl did some testing with a 16 kHz tone and found that any "Music" or "Game" THX post processing has Re-EQ=off as default, thus in effect giving you Audyssey FLAT with no high freq roll-off. The drawback is you have to accept THX post processing. THX Cinema modes also have Audyssey FLAT but Re-EQ=on as default. You can set Re-EQ=off, but this setting is not remembered after cycling power.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post15806494
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post15944049

Besides differences in sound and differences in features, i would advise people to consider the level of service provided by both brands.

On that point i can only comment on Onkyo's site, as an 875 owner. And based on my expiriences I would personally never buy another Onkyo again.

For instance; I got treated like an infant when i asked for an firmware-update, and the Onkyo service centre even became rude when I insited ("We dont want to provide the firmware for you little radio"). The "little" radio comment was really uttered (the 875 isnt a little radio !).

And based on the very long Onkyo "firmware" threads (yet more then 1), i wasnt the only one that had problems with Onkyo's update program. AVS users actually had to figure out how to update, and get tose updates, for themselves.

And finally; Onyo's support for a particular model seems to stop immediately whenever a new model comes out. So my 875 will never see the update that solves the problem with color-space conversions.

Denon's service seems to have a better track record. They recently even offered an update that added new features. OK, you had to pay for that feature, but none the less; Onkyo would never do something like that i think.

so make up you mind, not only based on features, but also based on user-expireances.

How do these units compare to the new Pioneer units - SC27 & SC25? I am in the market for a new receiver & Denon, Onkyo, Yamaha & Pioneer are the ones that I am considering.

You know you should be comparing the 2809 vs the 875 and not the 2300 series?

I'm interested in how this works while listening to music in plain 'ol stereo, 2 ch + sub. I guess the Audyssey 'Audyssey' curve has to be used since no 'Flat' is available in Onkyos. My understanding is that means there will be slight roll offs of the high frequencies.

Is that not very noticible? I haven't noticed complaints about that from Onkyo owners, or those switching to Onkyo from Denon, Marantz, etc.

What are your experiences?

Thanks!

It's definitely noticeable if I switch from Audyssey to Audyssey Flat on my Denon, there is definitely a bit of rolloff going on. Whether you find it objectionable is another matter. My rooms are smaller to medium and I can notice the difference right away especially when playing music.

That kind of sounds like it would bother me. I have no experience with Onkyo or Audyssey, though. Any Onkyo owners dislike having to use the 'Audyssey' curve for music in stereo mode?

as warpdrive said above, a lot of the differences are going to be these "little things", small functional differences that you would only ever understand by owning and using both units. How smoothly the GUI works, what kind of settings tweaks you can make, how Zone 2 functions, how many speakers you can hook up, etc.

Bottom line is both brands make great receivers and you should pick the one that meets your feature needs and makes you happy. on the low end (not discussed in this thread so far), Denon is winning the "feature war" right now as the 1610 and 1910 outclass the 507/607 with full MultEQ vs just basic 2EQ. Denon kind of beat Onkyo to the punch on certain features like Dynamic Volume, Dynamic EQ, better video processing, better MultEQ on lower level models...

But on the mid-to-higher end models, Onkyo seems to be stuffing more features into lower price points. For example, you have to go to the $2000 Denon 4310CI to get Audyssey DSX, but Onkyo put it in the $900 TX-SR707.

In terms of "on paper" specs it gets worse as you go up the line, since Onkyo maxes out its "flagship" model (NR906) at around the same price point as Denon's second/third-tier (43XX/48XX). Onkyo gives 9 amps at a much lower price point than Denon (which is restricting that to the $3000 4810CI), so they have definitely beaten Denon to the punch on the "beyond 7.1" feature set.

I would say both companies make fine receivers, and are fairly comparable in performance and features, until you get to there flagship model.
At this point you are looking for the BEST the company has to offer.
In this category the Denon while costing considerable more than the Onkyo, is in a league of it's own.

Even if the cost difference wasn't a factor here, there is still NO doubt I would select the Denon 5308ci over the Onkyo TX-NR906, any day of the week.
Onkyo produces a great flagship product and is an exceptional value, but I would gladly pay more for what might be considered the one box to rule them all, the Denon 5308ci.

Why do I personally buy and own Denon Flagship AV receivers?
Quite simple, Denon is what I consider to be the best AV receiver available without going into ultra expensive separate components.

What about Onyko's current flagship, the TX-NR5007?

http://onkyo-tx-nr5007.co.uk/aasp/on...7/txnr5007.asp

I am interested in acquiring a receiver that is best able to use DSX capabilities. I realise that the number of amps should match the number of channels in order to avoid matrix methods for filling channels. Would you recommend the upcoming Denon 4810 or the onkyo 3007 ? Denon would carry the ABT 2010, DSX and probably 9.x channels with the ability to select the audessey flat curve, while the 3007 has the Reon ISF chip, DSX, 9.2 channels and THX but no audessey flat curve selection (i stand to be corrected on the Onkyo specs). DSX should provide the wide and height channels. I expect to loose the back channel and hopefully have both wide and height channels engaged for a 5.1 sound source.