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QSC SC-2150 Clone

post #1 of 208
Thread Starter 

***UPDATED 10/15/2009*** Added pics of the Xover connections to the terminal plate.
***UPDATED 10/18/2009*** Added pics of the rear surround speakers build progress.
***UPDATED 10/20/2009*** Added pics of the completed rear surround speakers.

Well, here are the first 3 of 7 QSC SC-2150 clones. Ever since seeing MKtheater's setup here on AVS, I have been interested in using commercial cinema speakers in my own theater. After I saw Star Trek at IMAX, I knew that this was the way to go.

Current setup at the time consisted of a 7.1 DIY JBL setup that I has built in 2006.

(Qty x3) JBL E100
(Qty x4) JBL E50

I say DIY because I purchased all of the drivers, x-overs, and parts from the harmanaudio.com website and directly through JBL. Luckly, I was able to purchase and build everything at a MUCH LOWER cost vs purchasing them fully built retail. This also gave me the flexibility to build enclosures that suited my space requirements at the time.

The JBL's have been VERY good to me but it was time for an upgrade.

While researching which cinema speakers to buy I stumbled onto the QSC DCS line of cinema speakers and liked what I saw. So I dug a little deeper and found that QSC has an online parts store. This is where I ordered most of the parts for the speakers.

The front 3 speakers measurements are:
LF Enclosure: 30"H x 38.3"W x 14"D
Mid-High system: 17.5"H x 16.5"W x 4.5"D
Tune for LF: 40hz

The rear 4 speakers will be 2 separate enclosures within the columns. Design TBD.

Here are the parts:

Waveguides

Part #: PL-000447-GP
Fits models: DCS SC-2150, HPR-153i
Description of use: These will be used for the front 3 speakers.
Pics:








Part #: SP-000106-GP
Fits models: HPR-122i
Description of use: These will be used for the rear 4 speakers.
Pics:



Crossover

Part #: PA-000210-00
Fits models: DCS SC-2150
Description of use: This xover will be used in all 7 speakers. FYI... should someone want to convert the HPR-153i from amplified to passive, they can use this xover since the HPR-153i uses all of the same drivers and waveguides as the SC-2150.
Pics:



Terminal Plate

Part #: WP-002157-00
Fits models: DCS SC-2150
Description of use: Terminal plate will be used for all 7 speakers. Note that this plate needs to be ordered with the xover in order to make easy use of it's passive and biamp functions.
Pics:



Drivers

All drivers are made by Celestion.

Driver: 1.4" Compression driver (Neodymium)
Part #: SP-000086-GP
Celestion #: CDX1-1425
Fits models: DCS SC-2150, HPR-153i, HPR-122i
Description of use: This will be used in all 7 speakers
Pics:





Driver: 6.5" Mid Range Driver
Part #: SP-000085
Celestion #: TF0615 MR
Fits models: DCS SC-2150, HPR-153i
Description of use: This will be used in all 7 speakers
Pics:





Driver: 15" Woofer
Part #: SP-000084-GP
Celestion #: TF1530
Fits models: DCS SC-2150, HPR-153i
Description of use: This will be used in front 3 speakers
Pics:






Driver: Dayton 12" Woofer Shielded DVC
Part #: SD315-88
Description of use: This will be used in rear 4 speakers. I needed a woofer that could be ported in a small enclosure, dual voice coil (since I would be using 1 woofer per speaker), and cheap!! The 4 rear speakers will be located inside columns.
Pics:



Since everyone here for the most part knows how to build enclosures, I'll just post the pics during the build.

Build Pics
























Rear Surround Speakers Progress














Rear Surround Speakers Complete









If you have any questions, let me know.


Edited by chucky08016 - 8/2/12 at 6:38pm
post #2 of 208
Thread Starter 
*Theater is about 15% complete. Now that I finished the speakers, I can concentrate on building all of the wall panels, trim, details, etc. YAY!!! Walls were temp painted so that we could use the room during build.

*Since the speakers were going to be located behind the screen wall, they were not made to look pretty, just sound great.

*Yes, it was a VERY tight fit but they did fit AND nothing is obstructing their output.

How do they sound: In one word... RELENTLESS!!! Keep in mind that at the moment, I'm driving them ONLY with a Sony STR-DG1000 receiver (120w x7).

Problems that I have run into: I am NOT driving them with enough power. Need MORE power!!! Also, poor little Dayton 12" Titanic sub (sealed) is not keeping up. 2 18" Maelstroms should take care of that but they will need to be located at the rear of the theater.
post #3 of 208
Nice!
Thanks for posting the pics. I would recommend adjusting the angle on the horns to improve the sound. An angle of ~20-30 degrees inward ought to work out best.
post #4 of 208
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEO Dan View Post

Nice!
Thanks for posting the pics. I would recommend adjusting the angle on the horns to improve the sound. An angle of ~20-30 degrees inward ought to work out best.

I thought about that. Going to try out the angles this weekend. So far however, they sound phenomenal!!!
post #5 of 208
Wow, those look massive.....that's a good thing to me!

I've been looking at speakers like that, but I've never heard any inside a home. Heck, I'm not even sure what they are classified as, PA style speakers? Or are they just waveguide speakers? No clue. I feel kinda dumb again!

What advantage is there to the waveguide? Is there a minimum size room that they need to be in or not? I thought I read something about cancellations being greater using PA style speakers in smaller rooms, but I'm not sure.


I can't wait to see the rear surrounds, that seems like a size that many people would be interested in. Minus the Dayton 12" that you are using in the surrounds, how much will each one cost in parts? And if you don't mind, how much did the parts cost in your HUGE mains (per speaker)?


Nice photos by the way. Your room is looking really nice.
post #6 of 208
I love it. I want to make a clone of the jbl 3731 myself. May I ask how much it cost to make one speaker? You can PM me if needed.
post #7 of 208
Chucky, I sent off the QSC 153 waveguide (CD and 6.5") to Augerpro and he did test them.

The CD measured very well for its price tag and the 6.5" was so so. the 6.5 has a small range so I think the CD and the woofers are key to your performance.
post #8 of 208
Wow. Talk about dynamic ! Great pics !

KG
post #9 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Wow, those look massive.....that's a good thing to me!

I've been looking at speakers like that, but I've never heard any inside a home. Heck, I'm not even sure what they are classified as, PA style speakers? Or are they just waveguide speakers? No clue. I feel kinda dumb again!

What advantage is there to the waveguide? Is there a minimum size room that they need to be in or not? I thought I read something about cancellations being greater using PA style speakers in smaller rooms, but I'm not sure.


I can't wait to see the rear surrounds, that seems like a size that many people would be interested in. Minus the Dayton 12" that you are using in the surrounds, how much will each one cost in parts? And if you don't mind, how much did the parts cost in your HUGE mains (per speaker)?


Nice photos by the way. Your room is looking really nice.

Eric, you havent been following all of our waveguide discussions lately?

The QSC waveguides have become a big part of the discussion and projects. Augerpro is building a waveguide design with the QSC HPR152i waveguide. He has done a great job doing all the measurements. I sent of many waveguides and drivers to him.

Im building the 153i, 122i (just like Chucky) and Im building the HPR152i. HPR152i will be my mains, the 122i will be my surrounds (replacing the RB kits). The 153i is for a friend.
post #10 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEO Dan View Post

Nice!
Thanks for posting the pics. I would recommend adjusting the angle on the horns to improve the sound. An angle of ~20-30 degrees inward ought to work out best.

I didnt see any real on axis issues with these designs, what did I miss?
post #11 of 208
Quote:


Description of use: This xover will be used in all 7 speakers. FYI... should someone want to convert the HPR-153i from amplified to passive, they can use this xover since the HPR-153i uses all of the same drivers and waveguides as the SC-2150.

So we can just buy the SC-2150 crossover?
post #12 of 208
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

So we can just buy the SC-2150 crossover?

Yup. All you need to do is call the parts department.


Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Chucky, I sent off the QSC 153 waveguide (CD and 6.5") to Augerpro and he did test them. The CD measured very well for its price tag and the 6.5" was so so. the 6.5 has a small range so I think the CD and the woofers are key to your performance.

You are more right than you know. The speaker is balanced perfectly between the 4 drivers but the CD and the woofers play the largest role.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I love it. I want to make a clone of the jbl 3731 myself. May I ask how much it cost to make one speaker? You can PM me if needed.

Thanks!!! You were part of the inspiration. I'll detail cost in a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kgveteran View Post

Wow. Talk about dynamic ! Great pics !

KG

Thanks!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Wow, those look massive.....that's a good thing to me!

I've been looking at speakers like that, but I've never heard any inside a home. Heck, I'm not even sure what they are classified as, PA style speakers? Or are they just waveguide speakers? No clue. I feel kinda dumb again!

What advantage is there to the waveguide? Is there a minimum size room that they need to be in or not? I thought I read something about cancellations being greater using PA style speakers in smaller rooms, but I'm not sure.


I can't wait to see the rear surrounds, that seems like a size that many people would be interested in. Minus the Dayton 12" that you are using in the surrounds, how much will each one cost in parts? And if you don't mind, how much did the parts cost in your HUGE mains (per speaker)?


Nice photos by the way. Your room is looking really nice.

Thanks!! The room is nowhere near finished. Even in it's unfinished state, we use it alot.

These speakers are alost exact replicas of the SC-2150 (just turned on it's side) which are a part of QSC's Digital Cinema Line of speakers rated for rooms up to 54 ft. long if I remember correctly. They are pro cinema speakers so I guess you could classify them as PA.

As far as the waveguides... all I know is that they sound AMAZING!!! no cancellations at all. I don't know how to explain it but everything that is in a soundtrack of a movie is presented perfectly. From movies like Doubt to War of the Worlds, this setup goes from timid to unrelenting, dynamic, ludicrisness (yes, new word with new spelling) yet never gives up accuracy.

The surrounds are going to be tackled during my vacation in October. More on that soon.
post #13 of 208
Nice build thread, Chucky! I think you can take credit for kicking off the QSC mania that's going on here lately.
post #14 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

I didnt see any real on axis issues with these designs, what did I miss?

Doug,
unless you sit ~1' from the sidewall you would be off axis of the L & R speakers. Hence the suggestion to toe them in...


@ Chuck
How much did the LCR parts setup cost per channel? Can we get a breakdown
post #15 of 208
That looks awesome and the cost of the components looks sweet a lot less than what I was expecting. Please let us know how it sounds once you have properly amplified the system, I may look into building some stuff from the QSC range as well if I can get get hold of parts through the Australian distributor. I would much prefer a completely engineered system with properly designed crossovers than trying to design my own.
post #16 of 208
DL86, I realised us in Aus may be able to get parts on the QSC online store via http://www.priceusa.com.au/

Of course I realised this only after Penngray sent me some stuff (Thanks again!)
post #17 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by findbuddha View Post

DL86, I realised us in Aus may be able to get parts on the QSC online store via http://www.priceusa.com.au/

Of course I realised this only after Penngray sent me some stuff (Thanks again!)

Looks good, has anyone here ever used that service before?
post #18 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by findbuddha View Post

DL86, I realised us in Aus may be able to get parts on the QSC online store via http://www.priceusa.com.au/

Of course I realised this only after Penngray sent me some stuff (Thanks again!)

Good find Budda! There are a couple of other members downunder that hopefully can use that site.
post #19 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEO Dan View Post

Doug,
unless you sit ~1' from the sidewall you would be off axis of the L & R speakers. Hence the suggestion to toe them in...

I posted the wrong question, I meant to say off axis they are very good so why toe them in at all? Just curious to understand and learn why.
post #20 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

I posted the wrong question, I meant to say off axis they are very good so why toe them in at all? Just curious to understand and learn why.

I would toe them in to cut down on sidewall reflections. Also, doing so would be likely to enlarge the "sweet area" too.

Also, toe-in can be used to adjust the presentation. I prefer a pretty steep toe-in, with the axes crossing a bit ahead of the main listening position. Gives a "mid-hall" perspective on symphonies.
post #21 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

I would toe them in to cut down on sidewall reflections. Also, doing so would be likely to enlarge the "sweet area" too.

Also, toe-in can be used to adjust the presentation. I prefer a pretty steep toe-in, with the axes crossing a bit ahead of the main listening position. Gives a "mid-hall" perspective on symphonies.


Geddes speakers are recommended to be 45 degrees in! I have read Geddes research on this too, it included the same opinion you posted and he had some nice pictures to show how the sound field is much wider and better if the speakers are toed in enough so that the "Sweet spots" is before the seating position. (Just like you posted)

Im just curious and trying to learn about it from other points of view.
post #22 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Geddes speakers are recommended to be 45 degrees in! I have read Geddes research on this too, it included the same opinion you posted and he had some nice pictures to show how the sound field is much wider and better if the speakers are toed in enough so that the "Sweet spots" is before the seating position. (Just like you posted)

I wouldn't say "wider" so much as "further back." That is to say, subjectively the musicians sound like they're playing from further away.

But everything *is* clearer, probably due to the lack of asymmetric sidewall reflections in my room from the toe-in. (There's only a wall on the right side of the room.)
post #23 of 208
Chuck,

Are the Celestions the stock drivers?

What's the parts cost/chan for these?
post #24 of 208
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Chuck,

Are the Celestions the stock drivers?

What's the parts cost/chan for these?

Yup, most of the QSC speakers use Celestion drivers stock... as far as I know.
post #25 of 208
Thanks for the PM, Chuck.

I'm surprised they went with a 1.4" CD in a 3-way.

For lack of a better word, how "refined" is the SQ, especially the mid & treble?
post #26 of 208
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Thanks for the PM, Chuck.

I'm surprised they went with a 1.4" CD in a 3-way.

For lack of a better word, how "refined" is the SQ, especially the mid & treble?

I honestly do not know how to describe it. The 2 best examples are Doubt (Blu-ray) and War of the Worlds (DVD). I hope that I answer your question.

Doubt: This movie is mostly dialog with some sound effects thrown in such as telephones ringing, wind, thunderstorms, etc. The dialog is perfect with all of the other effect sounding independent and NOT mixing together. You hear every little detail down to the simplest thing such as fingers brushing on paper or doors creaking open. All of it sounds downright real.

War of the Worlds: The beginning of this movie just pushes any system to their upper limits. With these speakers, the louder I put it, the more they liked it and wanted more yet, they did not give up any accuracy or distortion at all!!! It got to a point where I was scared that I was going to walk out of the my theater deaf.

Poor little Titanic 12" sealed sub / 500w Bash amp combo is getting the hell kicked out of it. The next upgrade to 2 18" Maelstroms will take care of that.

The mid driver really only does a small job. Most of what's heard is from the CD and the woofers. Together however, they sound perfect with the only exception that they do not extend below about 28hz.
post #27 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

I'm surprised they went with a 1.4" CD in a 3-way.

That's the diaphragm size, smaller than the typical 1.75" for a 1" throat. Brandon's tests (under oddities on his page) showed the CD to be excellent. The mid, not so much, but it's only $24 from QSC.
post #28 of 208
Hey chuck that is exactly what I experience. Very detailed, everything is heard.
post #29 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky08016 View Post

I honestly do not know how to describe it. The 2 best examples are Doubt (Blu-ray) and War of the Worlds (DVD). I hope that I answer your question.

Doubt: This movie is mostly dialog with some sound effects thrown in such as telephones ringing, wind, thunderstorms, etc. The dialog is perfect with all of the other effect sounding independent and NOT mixing together. You hear every little detail down to the simplest thing such as fingers brushing on paper or doors creaking open. All of it sounds downright real.

War of the Worlds: The beginning of this movie just pushes any system to their upper limits. With these speakers, the louder I put it, the more they liked it and wanted more yet, they did not give up any accuracy or distortion at all!!! It got to a point where I was scared that I was going to walk out of the my theater deaf.

Poor little Titanic 12" sealed sub / 500w Bash amp combo is getting the hell kicked out of it. The next upgrade to 2 18" Maelstroms will take care of that.

The mid driver really only does a small job. Most of what's heard is from the CD and the woofers. Together however, they sound perfect with the only exception that they do not extend below about 28hz.

This is exactly what I want to acheive. How do you find this compares to the Star Trek IMAX experience? Better? btw I can't seem to find a link to the crossover and terminal plate you used since they are specific for the QSC-2150 on the QSC website spare parts.
post #30 of 208
Some cool speakers there Chucky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by findbuddha View Post

DL86, I realised us in Aus may be able to get parts on the QSC online store via http://www.priceusa.com.au/
Of course I realised this only after Penngray sent me some stuff (Thanks again!)

I just realised I forgot to thank you for the earlier PM re this service.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DL86 View Post

Looks good, has anyone here ever used that service before?

I'm going to order some of the round WG's, the rectangular ones and maybe a couple of these through that service soon. Every time I want to make the order, I find something else to order (like now maybe some of the Celestion CD's), and I need to wait until next payday. I'll post or PM how it turns out.
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