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Denon DBP-4010UDCI - Page 4

post #91 of 1223
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

That's what I said, just with different words .

I believe that's incorrect - the whole need for DL4 (as opposed to DL3) is for the bitstreamed lossless formats, so DL4 IS for DD True HD and DTS MA, despite the fact that those formats should be jitterless as you say. My understanding is that DL3 can actually handle everything else.

I don't think so, see post #68 in this thread.
post #92 of 1223
Quote:
Originally Posted by orologio View Post

Ok with theory. But in practicality I ask: is bitstreaming jitterless?

difficult to know, note that I used "jitterless" (between quotes) on purpose because it is a tricky subject, read more here .
post #93 of 1223
Quote:
Originally Posted by sergiohm View Post

I don't think so, see post #68 in this thread.

Based on what the discussions I've followed in both the AVP and DVD-A1 threads, I'm pretty sure some of the info in that post is incorrect. HDMI 1.3 isn't needed for LPCM - in this context, it's only required to bitstream the lossless formats. I agree that the benefit of using DL with those compressed formats is dubious, but that's the primary point of DL4. Just one example of the discussion:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post16749789
post #94 of 1223
This player is looking more and more like a poorly thought out product from Denon. As a DL3-enabled AVR owner, I would need to use both HDMI and D-Link to enjoy the new codecs and high resolution SACD.

The only real appeal seems to be the "single box" solution for all manner of optical discs - a poor excuse to purchase a $2K machine.

I really don't see $1,500 more performance over the OPPO, or my current "2 box" set-up consisting of a 3910 and a Panny BD35. Please let me know if I am missing something here.
post #95 of 1223
BN the way to look at it, it is really a one box solution vs the "2 box" you have now.

as far as the oppo comparison, the oppo has neither denon link or the analog implementation, discrete dac configuration or build of the denon. whether any of this of value to you ofcourse you need to weigh up for yourself.

for my self with the sony 5000es BD plaeyr and a denon 2930 both are extremely accomplished players. As a 2 box combination like you going to the 4010 is attractive to me in that will reduce box count. But wouldnt want to sacrifice in one little fashion what have with the two players so would need to be damn sure the 4010 is step forward before investing in one.

The DL4 business doesnt even factor in my equation, but with my avp would ofcourse be curious enough to check out the configuration and whether of any benefit.

In the mean time happy enough to stick with my duo, keeping in mind the 4010 is a first effort in trickle down from the dvd-a1, will be a while before we know just how it stands up, a while still before subsequent models arrive with lower pricing again and perhaps further enhancements in their overall implementation
post #96 of 1223
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Based on what the discussions I've followed in both the AVP and DVD-A1 threads, I'm pretty sure some of the info in that post is incorrect. HDMI 1.3 isn't needed for LPCM - in this context, it's only required to bitstream the lossless formats.

Yes, HDMI 1.3 is not required for LPCM, but it is required for Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD High Resolution, and DTS-HD Master Audio. And HDMI 1.2 (or greater) is required for SACD DSD. So, I referred to HDMI 1.3, as it is the lingua franca of current BD players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

I agree that the benefit of using DL with those compressed formats is dubious, but that's the primary point of DL4.

The ostensible benefit of Denon Link 4th is the ability to output LPCM -- whether that LPCM is native on disc or decoded/decompressed in player -- w/ a jitter free clock signal.

AJ
post #97 of 1223
Looks like Crutchfield is shipping these babies now....
Anybody here know of an authorized dealer selling these units at a good discount?

DreamCatcher
post #98 of 1223
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamCatcher View Post

Looks like Crutchfield is shipping these babies now....
Anybody here know of an authorized dealer selling these units at a good discount?

DreamCatcher

Check with Steve at Sound Video: www.soundvideo.com

Mark
post #99 of 1223
I'm guessing, from the lack of posts, nobody has picked up this player yet.
It doesn't seem to be readily available as only Crutchfield seems to have it in stock.

DreamCatcher
post #100 of 1223
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamCatcher View Post

I'm guessing, from the lack of posts, nobody has picked up this player yet.
It doesn't seem to be readily available as only Crutchfield seems to have it in stock.

Last time I looked (yesterday), Crutchfield had none in stock. Also, I submitted an order to Denon USA which has been pending 15 days, and since the previous item I ordered was turned around in 8 days, I suspect either the 4010 is not yet available, or there is a shortage of supply and they are only going to preferred dealers, but I don't know who those would be.
post #101 of 1223
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Hawk88 View Post

Last time I looked (yesterday), Crutchfield had none in stock. Also, I submitted an order to Denon USA which has been pending 15 days, and since the previous item I ordered was turned around in 8 days, I suspect either the 4010 is not yet available, or there is a shortage of supply and they are only going to preferred dealers, but I don't know who those would be.

They are available for shipping at some outlets, most will start presenting them for shipping this week coming or the next at the latest. Custom Install distributors have them now.
post #102 of 1223
Quote:
Originally Posted by elite-home View Post

They are available for shipping at some outlets, most will start presenting them for shipping this week coming or the next at the latest. Custom Install distributors have them now.

Thanks for the update. I am getting anxious and I want to have it for my upcoming calibration.
post #103 of 1223
Amazon.com had them in stock for a while the past week or so but may be sold out again. With Amazon Prime, you don't pay any shipping either and get 2nd day UPS on most all items.

Mine is on the way and I'll report back my findings. Right now, I have HIGH hopes for this model. I was deciding between it and the Marantz 8400 but it still has not come out yet and some say it won't be until Jan 2010. Can't wait for the 4010 to arrive.
post #104 of 1223
OK, got my unit and started setting it up.

I have an issue which I haven't quite got figured out yet. My unit is paired with a Denon 4308 Receiver and right now is connected via HDMI.

What I am having trouble with is it seems I can not get multi-channel audio but instead it goes to Dolby PLII on my receiver. I have checked my receiver, it looks just fine for the settings. But when I tried a couple of movies it seems to not want to decode it via bitstream.

I have a PS3 and an XBox 360 connected as well and both are outputting 5.1 just fine and those same blu-ray DVDs decode OK on the PS3. Also, I went over the HDMI setup in the 4010 and checked my other audio settings and I think they are as they should be.

Obviously something is wrong here in my settings because the audio for my games and PS3 seem just fine. I also hear a drop in audio quality when using the input on my 4010 but I really think that is due to it outputting DPLII instead of multi channel.

The front panel of the 4010 does have the "downmix" light on and I am not sure why. It does not seem to be set in the menu.

Right now I am trying to figure out what setting is wrong or what is going on. If anyone has any thoughts on this I would be happy to hear them.

In regards to firmware for the 4010, it is stock as received. I checked it in my menu and it said there were no updates for it. My Denon 4308 has the latest firmware too.

Thanks for any suggestions.
post #105 of 1223
Hi movieguru,
i also have just picked up my 4010,not had time to play much yet but i'll look into it & see what i find
post #106 of 1223
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieGuruJeff View Post

OK, got my unit and started setting it up.

I have an issue which I haven't quite got figured out yet. My unit is paired with a Denon 4308 Receiver and right now is connected via HDMI.

What I am having trouble with is it seems I can not get multi-channel audio but instead it goes to Dolby PLII on my receiver. I have checked my receiver, it looks just fine for the settings. But when I tried a couple of movies it seems to not want to decode it via bitstream.

I have a PS3 and an XBox 360 connected as well and both are outputting 5.1 just fine and those same blu-ray DVDs decode OK on the PS3. Also, I went over the HDMI setup in the 4010 and checked my other audio settings and I think they are as they should be.

Obviously something is wrong here in my settings because the audio for my games and PS3 seem just fine. I also hear a drop in audio quality when using the input on my 4010 but I really think that is due to it outputting DPLII instead of multi channel.

The front panel of the 4010 does have the "downmix" light on and I am not sure why. It does not seem to be set in the menu.

Right now I am trying to figure out what setting is wrong or what is going on. If anyone has any thoughts on this I would be happy to hear them.

In regards to firmware for the 4010, it is stock as received. I checked it in my menu and it said there were no updates for it. My Denon 4308 has the latest firmware too.

Thanks for any suggestions.

sounds like a setup issue00you may need to modify the hdmi settings in the 4010 setiup menu to make sure it is in multichannel audio out mode; additionally make sure the avr is properly set up in the set up menu to accept a multichanel input signal from the input you are using for the 4010. id also be curious what you think of the analog performance versus the hdmi connection! this should theoreticlaly be the area where this machine beats the oppo but well have to see.
post #107 of 1223
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieGuruJeff View Post

OK, got my unit and started setting it up.

I have an issue which I haven't quite got figured out yet. My unit is paired with a Denon 4308 Receiver and right now is connected via HDMI.

What I am having trouble with is it seems I can not get multi-channel audio but instead it goes to Dolby PLII on my receiver. I have checked my receiver, it looks just fine for the settings. But when I tried a couple of movies it seems to not want to decode it via bitstream.

I have a PS3 and an XBox 360 connected as well and both are outputting 5.1 just fine and those same blu-ray DVDs decode OK on the PS3. Also, I went over the HDMI setup in the 4010 and checked my other audio settings and I think they are as they should be.

Obviously something is wrong here in my settings because the audio for my games and PS3 seem just fine. I also hear a drop in audio quality when using the input on my 4010 but I really think that is due to it outputting DPLII instead of multi channel.

The front panel of the 4010 does have the "downmix" light on and I am not sure why. It does not seem to be set in the menu.

Right now I am trying to figure out what setting is wrong or what is going on. If anyone has any thoughts on this I would be happy to hear them.

In regards to firmware for the 4010, it is stock as received. I checked it in my menu and it said there were no updates for it. My Denon 4308 has the latest firmware too.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Hi, press the mode button on the remote and make sure the BD Audio Mode is set to HD Audio Output and not Mix Audio Output.
post #108 of 1223
Got my 4010 today also, and out of the box without setting any parameters it seems to be working fine. It is connected via HDMI to a 5308 which is showing 5.1 bitstream on the input and audio sounds fine. You might try initializing the setup parameters and see of the problem goes away. I also have the Denon Link 4th connected but I don't think that should make a difference except that it forces HDMI Control on.
post #109 of 1223
Thanks for the tips on the audio issue I was having. It is now resolved and everything seems to be fine now. The way I fixed it was I unplugged both the 4010 and 4308, waited a few minutes and plugged them back in. The reset seemed to have worked because it is now detecting the full audio as it should. I think it may have been one of the settings was off or somehow got locked and unplugging did the trick.

Anyway, so far the unit looks good and I will be doing some more testing and comparing video later this weekend. I also plan to test out the audio after that.

Can anyone tell me the latest firmware because the unit is saying there are no current updates available when I check it in the menu.

Also, what is your advice on the best settings for an LCD TV like a Sony XBR, like the Cinemotion and Smoothmotion video enhancers? Should they be on off for Blu-Ray DVD and on for DVD or off for both? I also see a "game mode" and turn that on when playing games, but what about when playing movies? Should that be off or can it be left on? Note, the settings are similar to Samsung LCD as well for the most part.
post #110 of 1223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denophile View Post

this should theoreticlaly be the area where this machine beats the oppo but well have to see.

Denonphile,

I would be interested to hear from someone who owns both players. Even better; someone that owns the BDP-83SE and the DBP-4010UD, which is probably not likely due to the scarcity of both players.

Since my 3800BDCI has the same DACs as the DBP-4010UD should I expect comparable sound via analog?


Respectfully,
Willie
post #111 of 1223
Here's a heads up for other neophytes like me concerning Denon Link. I got myself wrapped around the axle because BDs worked fine but DVDs had no audio. I eventually discovered that if I turned off Denon Link the audio came back. I decided to RTFM for my AVR and learned that I needed to select Denon Link in the Source Select/HDP/Assign/Digital menu. Made a lot of sense but that is why I still need training wheels.

My only disappointment so far is that the 4010 is slower than I had hoped. Here are some start-up times:

Power up to tray open: 40 sec.
Tray close to DVD play (Pink Floyd Pulse): 28 sec.
Tray close to BD play (Planet Earth): 39 sec.

I don't understand why DVD load is so slow. My old DVD player loads in 12 sec.
post #112 of 1223
Hi,

what about the video quality for DVD upscaling with this 4010?
post #113 of 1223
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Hawk88 View Post

Here's a heads up for other neophytes like me concerning Denon Link. I got myself wrapped around the axle because BDs worked fine but DVDs had no audio. I eventually discovered that if I turned off Denon Link the audio came back. I decided to RTFM for my AVR and learned that I needed to select Denon Link in the Source Select/HDP/Assign/Digital menu. Made a lot of sense but that is why I still need training wheels.

My only disappointment so far is that the 4010 is slower than I had hoped. Here are some start-up times:

Power up to tray open: 40 sec.
Tray close to DVD play (Pink Floyd Pulse): 28 sec.
Tray close to BD play (Planet Earth): 39 sec.

I don't understand why DVD load is so slow. My old DVD player loads in 12 sec.

that is something I did fear ! will stick with my sony 5000es in this case I think

thansk for taking the trouble and reporting through
post #114 of 1223
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Hawk88 View Post

My only disappointment so far is that the 4010 is slower than I had hoped. Here are some start-up times:

Power up to tray open: 40 sec.
Tray close to DVD play (Pink Floyd Pulse): 28 sec.
Tray close to BD play (Planet Earth): 39 sec.

I don't understand why DVD load is so slow. My old DVD player loads in 12 sec.

J-Hawk88,

That is disappointing considering my DVD-3800BDCI performs this task in approximately 15 seconds. I thought it couldn't get any slower than my Pioneer, but this model seems to have achieved that based on your testing.

I know some will say speed is not important and if that makes people feel good about their purchase then ok, but shouldn't we expect improvements; especially since the previous model blu-ray player was faster?

This is not an indictment of Denon, but all blu-ray players at this point should have the same functionality approaching dvd players.


Respectfully,
Willie
post #115 of 1223
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Hawk88 View Post

Here's a heads up for other neophytes like me concerning Denon Link. I got myself wrapped around the axle because BDs worked fine but DVDs had no audio. I eventually discovered that if I turned off Denon Link the audio came back. I decided to RTFM for my AVR and learned that I needed to select Denon Link in the Source Select/HDP/Assign/Digital menu. Made a lot of sense but that is why I still need training wheels.

My only disappointment so far is that the 4010 is slower than I had hoped. Here are some start-up times:

Power up to tray open: 40 sec.
Tray close to DVD play (Pink Floyd Pulse): 28 sec.
Tray close to BD play (Planet Earth): 39 sec.

I don't understand why DVD load is so slow. My old DVD player loads in 12 sec.


I was wondering, did you test it with the power mode on normal or quick startup? The reason I ask is because I noticed the time change noticeably faster on the normal non power saving mode. It cuts the startup time in half at least or more.

Also, the BD startup time seems to be about what you said for most the ones I have tried, some even longer.

BD of Batman: The Dark Knight = 52 seconds (average). After power is on and selecting play.

Seems SLOW on most BD titles, but I will check others. Certainly not as good as the PS3. I can't imagine why Denon would make it that way given how advanced BD is now and the time since the first generation BD players. Plus the price tag alone should dictate a FAST processor that should equal or beat a $300 PS3. Not thrilled about this but will keep testing.
post #116 of 1223
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTSman-fr View Post

Hi,

what about the video quality for DVD upscaling with this 4010?

Still testing this unit out. Have several things to check and this is one of them. I will get back on this and let you know what titles I tried and what I see but it should be decent I am hoping.
post #117 of 1223
Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

J-Hawk88,

That is disappointing considering my DVD-3800BDCI performs this task in approximately 15 seconds. I thought it couldn't get any slower than my Pioneer, but this model seems to have achieved that based on your testing.

I know some will say speed is not important and if that makes people feel good about their purchase then ok, but shouldn't we expect improvements; especially since the previous model blu-ray player was faster?

This is not an indictment of Denon, but all blu-ray players at this point should have the same functionality approaching dvd players.


Respectfully,
Willie

it is dissapoinging indeed, especially when you consider quite a few established standalone players I know off are relative speed demons looking at the times of this one that have been posted. I wonder if the load and boot times are held back and related at all to the universal drive this player no doubt uses ? though once you already have a relatively fast player in your system eg the 5000es I have its pretty hard to go backwards with a slow coach of a machine this one appears to be.

come on denon get with the program !
post #118 of 1223
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieGuruJeff View Post

I was wondering, did you test it with the power mode on normal or quick startup? The reason I ask is because I noticed the time change noticeably faster on the normal non power saving mode. It cuts the startup time in half at least or more.

Also, the BD startup time seems to be about what you said for most the ones I have tried, some even longer.

BD of Batman: The Dark Knight = 52 seconds (average). After power is on and selecting play.

Seems SLOW on most BD titles, but I will check others. Certainly not as good as the PS3. I can't imagine why Denon would make it that way given how advanced BD is now and the time since the first generation BD players. Plus the price tag alone should dictate a FAST processor that should equal or beat a $300 PS3. Not thrilled about this but will keep testing.

You were right about Quick Start, however I found Normal Standby to be essentially the same as Power Save Standby. I retested everything and was a little more careful with my measurements. "Power on to tray open" is measured from power on command until the tray is fully open (I sent a tray open command immediately after power on). "Tray open to play" is measured from tray close command to the first video on the monitor (e.g., FBI warning, etc.). Here are the latest measurements:

Power Save Standby

Power on to tray open: 42.2
Tray close to DVD play (Pink Floyd Pulse): 35.7
Tray close to BD play (Planet Earth): 42.4

Normal Standby

Power on to tray open: 42.5
Tray close to DVD play (Pink Floyd Pulse): 35.1
Tray close to BD play (Planet Earth): 42.3

Quick Start Mode

Power on to tray open: 5.4
Tray close to DVD play (Pink Floyd Pulse): 35.1
Tray close to BD play (Planet Earth): 43.5
Tray close to BD play (Dark Knight): 48.9
Tray close to BD play (Black Hawk Down): 50.6
Tray close to BD play (Spears & Munsil): 37.6

Unfortunately, this is the extent of my BD library.

I measured the power utilization in the standby state for the three power control settings, and did not see any measurable difference between Power Save and Normal Standby (using my trusty Kill-A-Watt which I suspect is not the most accurate device, but should suffice here). Here are the values:

Power Save Standby: .7 watts (extrapolated)
Normal Standby: .7 watts (extrapolated)
Quick Start Mode: 25 watts

I guess it is a choice between pleasing me and the wife, or pleasing Al Gore. Except for the power control parameter and Denon Link 4th enabled, I believe I am running with standard out-of-the box settings.
post #119 of 1223
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Hawk88 View Post

You were right about Quick Start, however I found Normal Standby to be essentially the same as Power Save Standby. I retested everything and was a little more careful with my measurements. "Power on to tray open" is measured from power on command until the tray is fully open (I sent a tray open command immediately after power on). "Tray open to play" is measured from tray close command to the first video on the monitor (e.g., FBI warning, etc.). Here are the latest measurements:

Power Save Standby

Power on to tray open: 42.2
Tray close to DVD play (Pink Floyd Pulse): 35.7
Tray close to BD play (Planet Earth): 42.4

Normal Standby

Power on to tray open: 42.5
Tray close to DVD play (Pink Floyd Pulse): 35.1
Tray close to BD play (Planet Earth): 42.3

Quick Start Mode

Power on to tray open: 5.4
Tray close to DVD play (Pink Floyd Pulse): 35.1
Tray close to BD play (Planet Earth): 43.5
Tray close to BD play (Dark Knight): 48.9
Tray close to BD play (Black Hawk Down): 50.6
Tray close to BD play (Spears & Munsil): 37.6

Unfortunately, this is the extent of my BD library.

I measured the power utilization in the standby state for the three power control settings, and did not see any measurable difference between Power Save and Normal Standby (using my trusty Kill-A-Watt which I suspect is not the most accurate device, but should suffice here). Here are the values:

Power Save Standby: .7 watts (extrapolated)
Normal Standby: .7 watts (extrapolated)
Quick Start Mode: 25 watts

I guess it is a choice between pleasing me and the wife, or pleasing Al Gore. Except for the power control parameter and Denon Link 4th enabled, I believe I am running with standard out-of-the box settings.

hey ! now your talking !

those quick start times look more like it to get that tray open

checking vs my 5000es,

it does power on to tray open in about 7 sec

and around 30sec till something splashes up on screen (warner) on black hawke down, around 50sec before menu comes up.

on black knight, 40 sec before something comes up on screen (warner splash) after tray close and in total after tray close 1.75 min till it goes through all the java crap(spinning disc symbol) !

would be interesting how long the denon takes to go through all the java, as thats usually whats holds up BD players including the ps3
post #120 of 1223
Greetings folks. I don't post much but I lurk alot around these forums whenever I get a chance. I picked up a 4010 yesterday and would like to comment on this player for whatever it's worth. First impression out of the box was a more refined look (compared to my Denon 3930ci & 5910ci). Phisically it's a little smaller and a little lighter than the 3930ci (and almost tiny) compared to the monster 5910ci. The power cord is 2 prong and of a lighter guage. There is no manual power button as on the 3930ci & 5910ci just the standby power button. The remote is similar to the others however it has no backlight and feels inferior (cheaper). Setup was pretty much the usual Denon affair but was pretty easy and straightforward. Very nice user interface. The reason I bought this unit is because I got tired with the audio section of my Panasonic BD55. The audio section of my other Denon's is so superior that I was in the need for this quality in Blu-Ray as well. After much lurking and reading I decided on this player because my other Denon's have been great (yes I do have the SACD issue with my 3930ci but after almost 8000hrs and 3 years of usage it's due for a tune-up. But I only have 1 SACD and it still plays DVD's flawlessly). They have been very reliable & never letting me down. Always impress with their video and audio performance. The 4010 is just as impressive on Blu-Ray as the others are with SD-DVD. The audio section is on the same level as Denon's previous flagships and the video is just as impressive. Just as a side note the audio I'm refering to is analogue 7.1. For digital I use all my players as transports. Since I bought this unit for it's analogue section the digital part is of little importance to me. In coclusion the 4010 trumps the Panasonic by light years This is a great step forward for my Blu-Ray experience.
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