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*Unofficial* Mitsubishi HC3800 Thread - Page 14

post #391 of 6366
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgferg67 View Post

According to the Sound and Vision review the HC3000 was not a sharp projector.
"HDTV, on the other hand, didn't have quite the same sharpness as on some other projectors"
"Resolution was below average, not hitting every line of a 720p pattern via either HDMI or component-video"

You do realize you are talking about a completely different PJ???? Mitsubishi HC3000U

From May 2006 no less
post #392 of 6366
Isaw mitsu hc3800 on IFA in berlin, and it was relly sharp projector, defenetly sharper then almost twice price hc6800
post #393 of 6366
Quote:
Originally Posted by tskalecki View Post

Isaw mitsu hc3800 on IFA in berlin, and it was relly sharp projector, defenetly sharper then almost twice price hc6800

Tskaleck,

That is exciting. Can you tell us what your impressions were on this HC3800 projector when you saw it at IFA and how it compared to other PJ's you saw at IFA?

Thanks

Dave
post #394 of 6366
What's the latest estimate on when this projector will be shipping?
post #395 of 6366
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcottle View Post

What's the latest estimate on when this projector will be shipping?

I saw an online store that said they expect them 10/26
post #396 of 6366
With the contrast of this projector a bit below 5000, how in the world is the black level going to be good? unless i'm looking at the wrong specs for this thing. i understand dlp is different in it's pq than lcd but still i'm scratching my head wondering what the black level is going to be like once it's released. i also read to that you can't stick this on a stand/shelf behind you since it doesn't offer much lens shift. that is the method i'll go for a projector sometime soon hopefully. gotta get the waf approval still.
post #397 of 6366
Quote:
Originally Posted by WormInfested View Post

With the contrast of this projector a bit below 5000, how in the world is the black level going to be good? unless i'm looking at the wrong specs for this thing. i understand dlp is different in it's pq than lcd but still i'm scratching my head wondering what the black level is going to be like once it's released. i also read to that you can't stick this on a stand/shelf behind you since it doesn't offer much lens shift. that is the method i'll go for a projector sometime soon hopefully. gotta get the waf approval still.

Worm, you're looking at the on/off contrast. The 3800 has very good ANSI contrast,
and will provide good black levels, providing there is proper room set-up.
post #398 of 6366
Quote:
Originally Posted by WormInfested View Post

With the contrast of this projector a bit below 5000, how in the world is the black level going to be good? unless i'm looking at the wrong specs for this thing. i understand dlp is different in it's pq than lcd but still i'm scratching my head wondering what the black level is going to be like once it's released. i also read to that you can't stick this on a stand/shelf behind you since it doesn't offer much lens shift. that is the method i'll go for a projector sometime soon hopefully. gotta get the waf approval still.

For contrast between light and dark regions "within" the picture this projector will be truly excellent if the rumours of 600 ANSI contrast is true.

For contrast "between" pictures, or frames, where light and dark changes with time it will not be able to compete with the high contrast projectors using a dynamic iris.
post #399 of 6366
Quote:
Originally Posted by WormInfested View Post

With the contrast of this projector a bit below 5000, how in the world is the black level going to be good? unless i'm looking at the wrong specs for this thing. i understand dlp is different in it's pq than lcd but still i'm scratching my head wondering what the black level is going to be like once it's released. .

Learn about dynamic contrast, dynamic iris (what LCD projectors and even some DLP's use to achieve high contrast), and whether it might bother you or not (pumping of image).

The only projectors that achieve High on/off contrast w/o any dynamic iris or gimmicks is the JVC RS series. BUT, they have very low ANSI contrast, and less POP (they are also not as sharp as a DLP).
post #400 of 6366
WormInfested -- And, finally, the HC3800 has no lens shift of any kind (you should read this entire thread). In addition, it has a, relatively, large negative offset (center of the lens is below the bottom of the screen (for shelf mounting). This is why I could not use it at all, since my PJ is mounted on a shelf behind my couch.

As for the "black level" argument, unless you had those PJs set up in your room, side by side, you would not be able to see the differences in the black levels. If you use your PJ with any light turned on in the room (ambient light), you won't be able to see the differences at all (ambient light kills the contrast levels).

The only "low cost" DLP PJ that has lens shift is the older BenQ W5000 and, it's new replacement, the W6000. I could not use the W5000, since it has a "long" lens. The W6000 has a shorter lens, which would work. However, I bought a Mitsubishi HC5500 LCD PJ last October, and it's working out so well that I am not giong to upgrade for another year or two.
post #401 of 6366
Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post

The only projectors that achieve High on/off contrast w/o any dynamic iris or gimmicks is the JVC RS series. BUT, they have very low ANSI contrast, and less POP (they are also not as sharp as a DLP).

Actually, AVForums reviewed the new JVC DILA HD950 (European version) some days ago. Interestingly, the measured ANSI-contrast was 573:1.

It is, of course, silly make comparisons like this because the JVC costs a small fortune. However, Mitsubishi should have a clear advantage over many projector in terms of ANSI-contrast, especially in its price-class.
post #402 of 6366
If you have ever seen a nice 720P DC2, then this PJ will be that but much Sharper + I like really bright PJ's so I hope this delivers. I thought I would be out of the projector market by now, I have a Olivea 65 inch flat screen LCD but still love the Mits HC3000. The HC3800(As long as reliable) should be money very well spent. I wish I could buy one in the first month of release but will have to wait for another 6 months or so. I can't wait to hear the first hand accounts of how it produces in AVS'er home theaters.
post #403 of 6366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Collusion View Post

Actually, AVForums reviewed the new JVC DILA HD950 (European version) some days ago. Interestingly, the measured ANSI-contrast was 573:1.
.

Wow, that's quite amazing...
post #404 of 6366
Greetings!

I think some online stores already have the HC3800 in stock:

Check the Projector Place.com and Projector Super Store.com

Kas
post #405 of 6366
Collusion & fleaman -- That ANSI contrast number, for the JVC, is the standard measurement (black and white checkerboard pattern on a single image). Just about every PJ has an ANSI Contrast number in that range (or less), when measured to that standard. IIRC the Epson 1080UB was around 371:1 from PJCs test, and that was considered excellent, at the time.
post #406 of 6366
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe View Post

Collusion & fleaman -- That ANSI contrast number, for the JVC, is the standard measurement (black and white checkerboard pattern on a single image). Just about every PJ has an ANSI Contrast number in that range (or less), when measured to that standard. IIRC the Epson 1080UB was around 371:1 from PJCs test, and that was considered excellent, at the time.

Okay then, what are the other standards? I thought the checkerboard pattern was the only way to measure the ANSI contrast. If I recall right, projectorcentral.com has measured many projector's ANSI contrast lately and only few of them have exceeded 600:1.
post #407 of 6366
Many times linked... "ANSI Contrast vs. ON / OFF contrast, an experiment":
http://translate.google.pl/translate...hl=pl&ie=UTF-8

And preview of HC-3800 at Cine4Home, "At this point we want to emphasize that all results published here refer to a pre-production model and should therefore be regarded only as preliminary evidence!":
http://translate.google.pl/translate...800Preview.htm
post #408 of 6366
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe View Post

Collusion & fleaman -- That ANSI contrast number, for the JVC, is the standard measurement (black and white checkerboard pattern on a single image). Just about every PJ has an ANSI Contrast number in that range (or less), when measured to that standard. IIRC the Epson 1080UB was around 371:1 from PJCs test, and that was considered excellent, at the time.

Not what I remember.

The JVC's were worse than even the 1080UB, below 300:1 FWIR (RS1 I think).

And there's a big difference between 371:1 and 600+:1. I wouldn't call that in the same range.
post #409 of 6366
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiatrak View Post

And preview of HC-3800 at Cine4Home, "At this point we want to emphasize that all results published here refer to a pre-production model and should therefore be regarded only as preliminary evidence!":
http://translate.google.pl/translate...800Preview.htm

So on/off contrast of about 2300:1, which is pretty much the exact same measure they got when they did the HC3000 review.

What sucks is the DC3 HC3100 (which I always wanted, but was never sold in USA), was tested to 3000:1 (maybe with the iris clamped down, low lamp), and 2300:1 (maybe open iris). This is better than the HC3800 and what it could probably do if Mits put a manual iris in....argh
post #410 of 6366
What is the MAP for this projector? Some places say $1395 and others $1495. Can't seem to get a firm answer from anywhere.
post #411 of 6366
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiatrak View Post

And preview of HC-3800 at Cine4Home, "At this point we want to emphasize that all results published here refer to a pre-production model and should therefore be regarded only as preliminary evidence!":
http://translate.google.pl/translate...800Preview.htm

From what I can make out from the translated review they had a problem with the sharpness/optics, enough concern to contact Mitsubishi.
"After consultation with the manufacturer, we were told that the prototype device is not up to production tolerances of the finished series. In terms of optical clarity, the first test results of the "finished" HC3800 now stays open and exciting."

The on/off contrast of 2300:1 is disappointing.
post #412 of 6366
Looks like they won't be instock till next month. Drats!
post #413 of 6366
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgferg67 View Post

From what I can make out from the translated review they had a problem with the sharpness/optics, enough concern to contact Mitsubishi.
"After consultation with the manufacturer, we were told that the prototype device is not up to production tolerances of the finished series. In terms of optical clarity, the first test results of the "finished" HC3800 now stays open and exciting."

The on/off contrast of 2300:1 is disappointing.

cine4home reports a on/off contrast varying from 2400:1 to 4200:1 depending on settings and an ANSI contrast off around 1:500. That's pretty promising in my book.
post #414 of 6366
Quote:
Originally Posted by tannat View Post

cine4home reports a on/off contrast varying from 2400:1 to 4200:1 depending on settings and an ANSI contrast off around 1:500. That's pretty promising in my book.

That 4200:1 figure was juicing the calibration and settings, not what you would want to watch a movie at, they said as such. It's one of the ways manufactures can somewhat claim some of the specs they do, by running a juiced calibrations mode....which can be very unwatchable.

When calibrated to 6500K, a 2400:1 figure was the result.

This is the same contrast rating they measured on the HC3000 @ 6500K.....4 years ago

All they had to do was put a manual iris on this HC3800

First I wanted the HC3100 (never imported here), then I look forward to the HC3800, and they forget to put a manual iris in it....giving it the contrast performance of the 4 year old HC3000.

Makes no sense.

At this end of the market, it doesn't surprise me that DLP isn't doing so well....seems like no manufacture can think straight.

Maybe I'll look into a used JVC RS1 instead....

(actually, I'll wait until Mits has a final production version that all these reviews claim they will look at again)
post #415 of 6366
Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post

That 4200:1 figure was juicing the calibration and settings, not what you would want to watch a movie at, they said as such. It's one of the ways manufactures can somewhat claim some of the specs they do, by running a juiced calibrations mode....which can be very unwatchable.

When calibrated to 6500K, a 2400:1 figure was the result.

This is the same contrast rating they measured on the HC3000 @ 6500K.....4 years ago

All they had to do was put a manual iris on this HC3800

First I wanted the HC3100 (never imported here), then I look forward to the HC3800, and they forget to put a manual iris in it....giving it the contrast performance of the 4 year old HC3000.

Makes no sense.

At this end of the market, it doesn't surprise me that DLP isn't doing so well....seems like no manufacture can think straight.

Maybe I'll look into a used JVC RS1 instead....

(actually, I'll wait until Mits has a final production version that all these reviews claim they will look at again)

I'm not sure. Seems they callibrated the proj with brilliant color off and then turned on BC. Wouldn't it have been better to calibrate it with brilliant color on?
post #416 of 6366
Quote:
Originally Posted by tannat View Post

I'm not sure. Seems they callibrated the proj with brilliant color off and then turned on BC. Wouldn't it have been better to calibrate it with brilliant color on?

No, BC=bad when it comes to proper/accurate calibration.


Well that pretty much rules out the 3800 for me (unless the actual production models pull the numbers up) , of course I was not expecting it to match the 12k mkII but I was expecting over 3200:1 on/off and somewhere around 600:1 ANSI (@6500K/D65).

Jason
post #417 of 6366
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

Well that pretty much rules out the 3800 for me (unless the actual production models pull the numbers up) , of course I was not expecting it to match the 12k mkII but I was expecting over 3200:1 on/off and somewhere around 600:1 ANSI (@6500K/D65).

Jason

Yeah, it's a real bummer.

DLP can easily do this (what you want) at this price point....in fact, this HC3800 would probably do it with just a manual iris (the HC3100 did).

Now there seems to be no 1080p DLP that can do this native, at any reasonable price.

Lame.
post #418 of 6366
It's not a good sign when we look back to older better DLP's, and LCD fans look to newer LCD's.
post #419 of 6366
If I bought this projector, I would be upgrading from an Infocus 4805.

The contrast spec for the 4805 is 2500:1, if I recall correctly.

Does anyone know what actual contrast performance was achieved with the 4805?

My viewing room has very light walls and ceilings, so it is not optimized for viewing projected images. Given these conditions, I really like the image that the 4805 creates, in particular colors, but blacks seem acceptable.

It seems that an actual measurement of 2300:1 on a pre-production unit would be likely to be better than the performance of the 4805. Would I notice any difference?
post #420 of 6366
In the comparison summary on projectorreviews.com the Mits hc3800 rates highly against it's competitors like the Epson tw8100. They say it has better black levels and contrast overall and is sharper with more accuarate colors and alot brighter. Considering it's cheaper than the Epson it seems to me like a fine projector for the money, even if it's measurements are a bit lack luster.
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