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*Unofficial* Mitsubishi HC3800 Thread - Page 208

post #6211 of 6366
Well I tried using my Spears and Munsil disc again and I still can't get a picture that "wows" me. I am sure it must be something I am doing wrong as too many 3800 owners rave about the picture but I am just not seeing it. In my opnion my on HC3000 720p was as good as the 3800 and that should not be?
post #6212 of 6366
Other things which affect the quality of what you see are the size and distance of your screen, and your personal visual acuity. In other words, if the pixels are close enough together that your eyes cannot distinguish them at 720p at your preferred seating position, you should see only a very slight difference, if any, between images projected at 1080p and 720p resolutions.
post #6213 of 6366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Other things which affect the quality of what you see are the size and distance of your screen, and your personal visual acuity. In other words, if the pixels are close enough together that your eyes cannot distinguish them at 720p at your preferred seating position, you should see only a very slight difference, if any, between images projected at 1080p and 720p resolutions.

Thanks Selden Ball for those comments. I sit back 15' from my 120" wide screen. The pixels must be close enough, as you say, that I cannot distinguish them at 720p therefore I guess that is why I only see a marginal difference is PQ. The big difference I see between 720p and 1080p is color. I can definitely see a brighter, vivid, saturated, accurate color on 1080p vs. 720p. I only wished I could see a sharper picture (more film like) with 1080p than 720p but I can't, at least with the 3800 I can't. The picture to me is still a little soft regardless of the calibrations I make or settings that I change. Will have to live with it I guess. Probably will keep it for a couple more years and then maybe dive into 3D depending on where the technology is at that time. Life is good, not complaining about my 3800, for the money, it is great with a great picture. I just happen to have, as they say, "champagne take with beer money", lol.
post #6214 of 6366
Quote:
Originally Posted by golffnutt View Post

I can definitely see a brighter, vivid, saturated, accurate color on 1080p vs. 720p. I only wished I could see a sharper picture (more film like) with 1080p than 720p but I can't, at least with the 3800 I can't. The picture to me is still a little soft regardless of the calibrations I make or settings that I change. Will have to live with it I guess. Probably will keep it for a couple more years and then maybe dive into 3D depending on where the technology is at that time. Life is good, not complaining about my 3800, for the money, it is great with a great picture. I just happen to have, as they say, "champagne take with beer money", lol.

I wouldn't expect a 'Wow' moment coming from the HC3000, which was a good PJ. But you do at least see the improvements.

720p to 1080p isn't necessarily an increase in sharpness, in fact, sometimes it appears to be softer. What you get is an increase in resolution, which isn't really the same as sharpness depending. If you sit far enough back, the difference may not even be noticeable. Focus uniformity, lens quality, set up (screen flatness, PJ square with screen, etc.) can have more of an effect. Also, make sure you don't focus the HC3800 until at least 30 mins of warm up (an hour to be safe), as the focus is different when cold, and will be out of focus slightly from cold to hot (or vice versa depending on when you focused).

Another thing to try is the new Darbee darblet. I just got one and it does make things sharper, more in focus, w/o any noticable artifacts. Check out the darbee thread, the WSR on it, etc. I'm really impressed, makes my HC3800 appear to be sharper--more in focus. Even works well on my 32" Sharp LED LCD from 9ft away! Strangly seems to be more dramatic on my 32" LCD than the HC3800, but it's dramatic never the less.
post #6215 of 6366
Here are some excellent screenshot comparisons of the darbee posted in the darbee thread. Dunno if this is a PJ or flatscreen, but I basically see the same sort of improvement. In fact, on worse sources (HD cable vs blu ray) I see more of an improvement. This poster also has the darbee set on the low side (45% I think?) where i've been getting away with 60-65% on HD cable sources with my 32" LCD and maybe 55% on the HC3800. Though remember I'm about 9ft away from the 32" and about 9-10ft from a 80" (diagonal) PJ screen, so I'm not that close relative to the screen size (compared to many others here on AVS).,

Mouse over the images after they load to toggle between darbee on/off.

post #6216 of 6366
Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post

Here are some excellent screenshot comparisons of the darbee posted in the darbee thread. Dunno if this is a PJ or flatscreen, but I basically see the same sort of improvement. In fact, on worse sources (HD cable vs blu ray) I see more of an improvement. This poster also has the darbee set on the low side (45% I think?) where i've been getting away with 60-65% on HD cable sources with my 32" LCD and maybe 55% on the HC3800. Though remember I'm about 9ft away from the 32" and about 9-10ft from a 80" (diagonal) PJ screen, so I'm not that close relative to the screen size (compared to many others here on AVS).,
Mouse over the images after they load to toggle between darbee on/off.

Thanks much fleaman for the info and tip on the Darbee. I'm afraid $300 is a bit too much for this old disabled guy. Would love to try one but that kind of add on equipment is unfortunately out of my league and price. I do see the difference but to be honest I don't see a $300 difference. The old eye sight ain't what it used to be and I have to keep reminding myself of that very important fact. Thanks again for the info and reply to my post, your time and the sharing of your knowledge is very much appreciated by this member especially. Have a great day.
post #6217 of 6366
Yeah, like I mentioned, I see a more dramatic difference on HD cable sources with the darbee set at a higher % than those screenshots.

That poster seemed to use some already pretty good source material, so the improvement is not as dramatic in those samples.
post #6218 of 6366
Just a quick question...the Onkyo 818 has a very good video processor, so what should I set the 3800 at to bypass it. Or is that possible?
post #6219 of 6366
The 3800 has a native resolution of 1920x1080 pixels. It changes its scan rate to match whatever refresh rate is sent. I.e. it doesn't convert to 60 fps as many LCDs do. However, the projector does have a significant delay when it changes refresh rate (the color wheel has to change speed), so many people like to send it a fixed 60 fps.

If you set the Onkyo to always output 1080p (1920x1080), then the projector won't have to do any upscaling. Any other resolution does require processing. Setting the Onkyo to always output 60 fps (if that's an option) would help, too, unless you're one of the many people who are affected by judder.
post #6220 of 6366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

The 3800 has a native resolution of 1920x1080 pixels. It changes its scan rate to match whatever refresh rate is sent. I.e. it doesn't convert to 60 fps as many LCDs do. However, the projector does have a significant delay when it changes refresh rate (the color wheel has to change speed), so many people like to send it a fixed 60 fps.
If you set the Onkyo to always output 1080p (1920x1080), then the projector won't have to do any upscaling. Any other resolution does require processing. Setting the Onkyo to always output 60 fps (if that's an option) would help, too, unless you're one of the many people who are affected by judder.

Thanks Selden,

I thought that I was having resolution issues and since my post I have corrected it.

I was having BIG problems when I raised the PJ on the stool it sits on so that it sat flush without using the screw lifts, and the picture was horrible...over saturated, and high contrast/brightness settings (using calibration disk) to get any sort of picture... So I put it back to where I originally had it and used the screw feet adjustments and voilà it was bright and sharp again and not over saturated.with color, primarily red. It seems that in my case it needs to project up/angled and not flat like it shows on the Mitsi calculator or the manual. It was as if it was reflecting back into the lens and screwing everything up.

I'm back to using the 818 doing the processing (1080p) and native with the sat box now that the 3800 shines again.
post #6221 of 6366
That's strange.

I have mine hanging upside down, projecting horizontally toward the top of a high-power screen and haven't seen symptoms like you describe. It's running with the bulb in "low power" mode and has plenty of visible brightness even though high-powered screens are supposed to redirect light back toward the source. For a while recently the image looked quite washed out, but I discovered that one of the special color profiles somehow had been enabled in the projector.
post #6222 of 6366
"That's strange."

I know.

Believe me the picture was unwatchable. I used two different cal disks (AVS 709 and THX optimizer) and had to set the contrast to around 10 and brightness 18-20 in low lamp mode and it was literally painful to watch (used a lot of Visine) and the red saturation was uncorrectable no matter what I did.

Now after returning it to the lower height and angling it slightly, I'm back to using contrast-1 and brightness-0 (where I had set it from previous calibrations) and it looks fantastic.


I've had this pj for around 3 years so it's not new to me and a hc3000 before that and have always had great pictures. I just thought that I'd set it up according to the manual.

Oh well, I got it fixed to my satisfaction now so I'm happy. smile.gif

Thanks again.
post #6223 of 6366
Yeah, that's very strange.

So basically you have the PJ angled (up/down) and are using keystone to get a square image? And for some reason when you set the PJ square to the screen (no keystone), your image is horrible?

Bizarre is the word.
post #6224 of 6366
Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post

Yeah, that's very strange.
So basically you have the PJ angled (up/down) and are using keystone to get a square image? And for some reason when you set the PJ square to the screen (no keystone), your image is horrible?
Bizarre is the word.

I'm not using any keystone correction as it's only slightly off a bit on the bottom and hardly noticible.

I should have taken some pictures.

Just last week I painted the walls and ceiling a very dark gray as I wanted to get nice inky blacks and clear defined whites and that was achieved. That's when I looked at the calculator and it said that I should get the lens up to around 16 inches and I found some 2"x6" boards that I had laying around and this lined the picture up with just a touch of screw adjustment and all the trouble began.

I am also using a DIY Parkland laminate screen which may be reflecting the light back into the lens...I don't know but it's fixed now and I'll be watching the Bears/Packers (Go Packers) in a couple of hours.
post #6225 of 6366
I guess I just don't get it. Sound like you have a very very slight angle difference between both set ups if you're not needing to do any keystone on the 'PJ angled' set up.

There shouldn't be any PQ difference, especially the level you're mentioning, by the image being reflected back into the lens. First, the lens is only like 3" diameter (for it to reflect an image back to the screen), 2nd, it's offset by 35% or so from the screen (so it is above or below your screen).

Not that it really matters, but how many inches in height was the difference between your stool 'raised' position and the lower position (that I guess had the PJ angled up?)?
post #6226 of 6366
Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post

I guess I just don't get it. Sound like you have a very very slight angle difference between both set ups if you're not needing to do any keystone on the 'PJ angled' set up.
There shouldn't be any PQ difference, especially the level you're mentioning, by the image being reflected back into the lens. First, the lens is only like 3" diameter (for it to reflect an image back to the screen), 2nd, it's offset by 35% or so from the screen (so it is above or below your screen).
Not that it really matters, but how many inches in height was the difference between your stool 'raised' position and the lower position (that I guess had the PJ angled up?)?

The difference is 1 1/2" which puts the center of the lens at 16" and the bottom of the screen at 34" and the top, 82". There is no doubt that painting the walls/ceiling Sherwin Williams 'Wall Street gray", the darkest gray that they could mix, with blackout drapes, and no ambient lighting has contributed greatly to the changes that I'm dealing with. They were a very light gray on the walls with a white ceiling but I had put up a 8' x 8' piece of heavy black fleece as an experiment, directly over the ceiling reflection, with a HUGE improvement to the blacks, and that convinced me to paint everything, maybe not such a good idea in hindsight.

I'm in GAMMA=CINEMA mode with SETUP=OFF (7.5, 3.75, AUTO, OFF), COLOR TEMP=MED, COLOR=0 TINT=+1.

I'm going to go back and raise the pj again today and see what happens. I'm also going to try using the VIDEO GAMMA to start with a brighter mode.

EDIT---I put the wood blocks back in (zero keystone now) and just kept fiddling with the settings until I was satisfied and have a nice picture.

Thanks for the help.
Edited by Patrick Murphy - 9/14/12 at 11:50am
post #6227 of 6366
My HC3800 has the same type of banding / sync issues described here. Can you tell me if Mitsubishi was able so successfully resolve the issue? I have the RMA number already and I plan to ship soon. I've attached a photo that shows an example of the issue occurring.



I use a "30' Ultra Slim High Performance HDMI® Cable w/ RedMere® Technology" from Monoprice. I've tried different cable length settings (and HDMI cables) but that didn't help.
post #6228 of 6366
It's not a cable issue (nor banding/sync issues). You have the checkerboard of death issue. It was an issue with early HC3800's which was fixed early on (under warranty, etc.).

Your HC3800 has to go in for a hardware fix, no way to fix it yourself. It is an known fix for them, though these were dealt with early on under warranty, which I can't imagine your unit can still be under?
post #6229 of 6366
Thank you for the prompt reply. Yeah, I think it's got a two year warranty (reference). I bought it in March of 2010 so it's out of warranty. I really though it had a three year warranty but apparently I'm wrong. This will be the second time that I've sent the unit into Mitsubishi for this problem. Since the issue still has not been fixed I'm hoping that the unit will still be covered under the warranty. I've been issued an RMA but if I understand correctly having the RMA doesn't entitle me to warranty coverage.

Does anyone have a handle on my approximate cost to get this fixed if it is not covered by my warranty?

Having to power cycle the unit when the issue occurs is really just an extreme annoyance. If it's too costly to fix I might just have to live with it.
post #6230 of 6366
How many hrs on it?

It sounds to me like you probably have low hrs. This issue usually pops up soon, and if not fully fixed (from the factory service), it usually pops up again pretty soon. I'm guessing you didn't put many hrs on it (or didn't us it for a while) and hence the warranty ran out.

Technically they don't have to warranty it. But you can of course argue that the problem wasn't fixed the first time and the low hrs (assuming) you have on the unit, which might sway them.
post #6231 of 6366
I have a small projector Lamp re-use question.

Last yr when I purchased this projector as a update to my mits hc1000u, I received a spare lamp with it. The existing lamp has 1700 hours on it and going strong, so I may never end up using the spare lamp before I upgrade to a newer model. Are these lamps unique to a projector type or can this be used in a newer model of mits projector.

sonisame
post #6232 of 6366
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjw122 View Post

Having to power cycle the unit when the issue occurs is really just an extreme annoyance. If it's too costly to fix I might just have to live with it.

Since you mentioned cycling power to fix, I'll offer what we Pro8100 owners did that were blessed w/ what we called "vertical banding". We put a timer on the outlet that shut the power off during a period for several hours when the PJ was not normally used. Might give it a try if it's not covered under your previous warranty repair for the same issue. BTW ViewSonic never successfully fixed any PJs w/ VB that I'm aware of. Good luck however you go.
post #6233 of 6366
Power cycling (powering down, then back on) usually becomes less and less effective, to the point it just starts up with the checkerboard of death.
As far as removing power when on standby? Well, doubt that would work here either.

And BTW, this isn't a 'banding' issue (like what LCD's can have, etc. the Pro8100 is a LCD)
post #6234 of 6366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonisame View Post

I have a small projector Lamp re-use question.
Last yr when I purchased this projector as a update to my mits hc1000u, I received a spare lamp with it. The existing lamp has 1700 hours on it and going strong, so I may never end up using the spare lamp before I upgrade to a newer model. Are these lamps unique to a projector type or can this be used in a newer model of mits projector.
sonisame

The HC4000 uses the same lamp.

http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/hc4000/

Then "Documents, Accessories and Support"
post #6235 of 6366
i am soon getting this projector (about 80% sure i will), can anyone tell me in short how it is compared to todays projectors, i assume its about 3-4 years old. does it still look good?
im planing on selling my samsung es6200 46" and going for the projector with about 80-100 inch max
any good words on the projector?
post #6236 of 6366
Here's the review that sold me on the 3800 2 1/2 years ago and still going strong;

http://www.projectorreviews.com/mitsubishi/hc3800/index.php
post #6237 of 6366
Quote:
Originally Posted by soler37 View Post

i am soon getting this projector (about 80% sure i will), can anyone tell me in short how it is compared to todays projectors, i assume its about 3-4 years old. does it still look good?
im planing on selling my samsung es6200 46" and going for the projector with about 80-100 inch max
any good words on the projector?

Yes. For a DLP there really hasn't been any improvements/developments.

Though I would suggest you not sell your regular 'tv' if you are planning to replace it with a PJ full time? PJ's are great for that special movie watching experience, but a bit impractical to use daily for watching the news, etc. I have a 32" LCD/LED (small room) and it is awesome for regular tv stuff.
post #6238 of 6366
Yup 3800 is still great with really nothing on the market in the price range worth upgrading to. From what I've read the HC4000 is a minor improvement in sharpness and black level, but you can't tell unless they were side by side. 3800 and 4000 are keepers until something new comes out that is a noticeable improvement.
post #6239 of 6366
I have decided to move on from my very first and still awsome PJ. Just turned over 2000 (eco lamp) original miles and has been absolutely worry free. Let me if anyone is interested (mount included as well).
post #6240 of 6366
can someone post their calibration settings please, the image im getting isnt what i want and i cant seem to calibrate it right.
i have a dark room btw.
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