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The Official ChromaPure thread - Page 109

post #3241 of 5355
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

You highlight the desired item and then press the Enter button. This causes that item to be active. You can now press any number you want on the keypad, and then press enter again.
Excellent - thanks!
I'll check this out next time.


My 2 cents:
Tom has added a lot of value and usefulness to Chromapure especially with regards to the 125pt calibration. I'm sure we can all agree that things like 125 pt autocal should get pushed to the head of the line as compared to allowing us to interact with the Duo or Lumagen via Chromapure.
post #3242 of 5355
I would like to see an interactive link from the 125 PT reporting so that a particular triplet mesaurement could be clicked and and an HSL control box for that triplet's value could be modified right in ChromaPure. I know that kind of capability will probably never happen but it would be especially useful. Dream on, dream on Gary!
post #3243 of 5355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

Excellent - thanks!
I'll check this out next time.
My 2 cents:
Tom has added a lot of value and usefulness to Chromapure especially with regards to the 125pt calibration. I'm sure we can all agree that things like 125 pt autocal should get pushed to the head of the line as compared to allowing us to interact with the Duo or Lumagen via Chromapure.

I hope you speak for yourself and not for those that need 50% size patterns for a
Plasma, a full field for an LCD with local dimming and 75% saturation for an FPJ.

Autocal allows a generator selection and for the Duo a window size selection, which
does not work BTW.

I expect Tom's team will add three items to the Duo generator repertoire, drop down
menus to select pattern size, Luminance and Saturation.
The team will add the newly discovered Duo pattern generator command sequences to the
current repertoire already programmed and link those to the newly added user menus.

When the user now runs Autocal he will select the patterns that are optimal for his
display.

This will constitute a worthwhile enhancement to Autocal, not only for 10pt but I expect
for 125pt calibration as well.

My apologies Tom, no intention to step on your programming team, just how I see how the
changes would be implemented.

I admit that my last serious programming endeavor was in the mid 60's when I used
FORTRAN IV with an IBM timeshare (Decwriter) to analyze the performance of an IR missile
seeker as a function of range, atmospheric conditions and target and seeker
characteristics. Took about three months and was successful.
I am not a total stranger to programming.
post #3244 of 5355
^^^ My point was priorities...125 pt autocal should have had priority over allowing interactive use of the DUO and Lumagen in CP. I don't argue with your list either but the Lumagen 125 pt autocal is a game changing BFD that I think rightly took priority over other priorities.
post #3245 of 5355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

^^^ My point was priorities...125 pt autocal should have had priority over allowing interactive use of the DUO and Lumagen in CP. I don't argue with your list either but the Lumagen 125 pt autocal is a game changing BFD that I think rightly took priority over other priorities.

I do not have a Lumagen and will never have one, I have the Duo

So that is my priority
post #3246 of 5355
Quote:
Originally Posted by catmother View Post

I do not have a Lumagen and will never have one, I have the Duo
So that is my priority

Never say never, although I know what you mean.

Have to say though that it would be beneficial if Tom could add the ColorChecker capability.

This has been absolutely invaluable to me in deciding whether my LCD TV would benefit visually by having 5x5x5 LUT capability.

Recent addition to the Xrite webpage is this video section:

http://www.xritevideo.com/

The bottom video is particularly worth watching even though made for video makers. However it is industry standard so worth duplicating as a tool for our use.

Luckily my Panel is proving to be quite linear when calibrated with 75% Saturation patterns so the choice to buy a Mini is not needed. Even if it was visually beneficial it really is a lot of extra money for Duo owners just to get 5x5x5 LUT capability.
Edited by PE06MCG - 11/6/12 at 2:43am
post #3247 of 5355
hello Tom,
I got a problem with the dE calculation in the CM module and ACM module.
My aim is to calibrate for 75%amplitude/75%saturation and 75%amplitude/100%saturation, and then use an average of the settings.
I use CP 2.3.1.37946 and builtin patterns.

Problem is: dE calculation in the CM module is widely different from the calculation in the ACM module. See as example the measurement for 75%amplitude/75%saturation.
For the CM measurements, I set 75%REC709 and 75% signal intensity in the signal generator.
For the ACM measurement, I use pattern intensity 75% and baseline, primary and secundary color saturation measurements.
As an example CM shows for yellow dE=0.2% and ACM shows dE=22, although xx,y,Y data for the color and for the grey are basically the same.
See enclosed the data.
Where do I go wrong?
acm.csv 0k .csv file
AdvancedColorManagementReport.xls 404k .xls file
Doc1.docx 254k .docx file
PS: I see that the acm.csv file only shows the ACM secondaries data, and not the grey base. But the data for the grey base in CM and ACM were the same.

UPDATE:
Tonight, I tried again and now it worked, but still with a small error.
This morning, I installed the acm macro and started that, but it did not work, so I stopped it.
Because of the problems mentioned above, I made a clean install without the acm macro update.
Now it works again, but with a small error.
When I calibrate in the CM module for more or less 0 dE on all colours, I still get on average a dE error of 1 in the ACM module (both done at 75%amplitude, 75%saturation).
Then I looked closer and found the following
The CM module puts out for yellow a built-in pattern of 193,193,86.
The ACM module puts out 190, 190, 85.

Checked red, same problem. CM 175, 51, 51 and ACM 173, 51, 51.
Did not check the other colors, but I expect the same problem.

So why the difference, presuming I do things right. Is it a bug? Or an effect of some influence of gamma on target calculation? Which one - CM or ACM - is correct?
Edited by turboman123 - 11/6/12 at 4:00am
post #3248 of 5355
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboman123 View Post

hello Tom,
I got a problem with the dE calculation in the CM module and ACM module.
My aim is to calibrate for 75%amplitude/75%saturation and 75%amplitude/100%saturation, and then use an average of the settings.
I use CP 2.3.1.37946 and builtin patterns.
Problem is: dE calculation in the CM module is widely different from the calculation in the ACM module.

I think you'll find your answer here : http://www.avsforum.com/t/1174468/the-official-chromapure-thread/2580#post_22267870

CM uses lightness data, ACM uses luminance data.
post #3249 of 5355
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboman123 View Post

hello Tom,
I got a problem with the dE calculation in the CM module and ACM module.
My aim is to calibrate for 75%amplitude/75%saturation and 75%amplitude/100%saturation, and then use an average of the settings.
I use CP 2.3.1.37946 and builtin patterns.
Problem is: dE calculation in the CM module is widely different from the calculation in the ACM module. See as example the measurement for 75%amplitude/75%saturation.
For the CM measurements, I set 75%REC709 and 75% signal intensity in the signal generator.
For the ACM measurement, I use pattern intensity 75% and baseline, primary and secundary color saturation measurements.
As an example CM shows for yellow dE=0.2% and ACM shows dE=22, although xx,y,Y data for the color and for the grey are basically the same.
See enclosed the data.
Where do I go wrong?
acm.csv 0k .csv file
AdvancedColorManagementReport.xls 404k .xls file
Doc1.docx 254k .docx file
PS: I see that the acm.csv file only shows the ACM secondaries data, and not the grey base. But the data for the grey base in CM and ACM were the same.
UPDATE:
Tonight, I tried again and now it worked, but still with a small error.
This morning, I installed the acm macro and started that, but it did not work, so I stopped it.
Because of the problems mentioned above, I made a clean install without the acm macro update.
Now it works again, but with a small error.
When I calibrate in the CM module for more or less 0 dE on all colours, I still get on average a dE error of 1 in the ACM module (both done at 75%amplitude, 75%saturation).
Then I looked closer and found the following
The CM module puts out for yellow a built-in pattern of 193,193,86.
The ACM module puts out 190, 190, 85.
Checked red, same problem. CM 175, 51, 51 and ACM 173, 51, 51.
Did not check the other colors, but I expect the same problem.
So why the difference, presuming I do things right. Is it a bug? Or an effect of some influence of gamma on target calculation? Which one - CM or ACM - is correct?
There is a weird bug with the dE calculations in the ACM module that we are working on now.
Saying that the acm macro "did not work" is not helpful. What, exactly, occurred? I just tested it here and it was fine. Are you sure that you downloaded and installed the macro into the correct folder?
When reporting a problem, and this applies to everyone, please be as specific as possible.
There are very small discrepancies (1 or 2 code values) between the ACM and 75% of Rec. 709 internal test patterns. These crop up just because of rounding errors. We will fix these right away, though I doubt they would make any difference to the readings.
You can export any ACM data you like, but you have to first select the desired level of saturation. It only exports one level at a time.
Edited by TomHuffman - 11/6/12 at 11:47am
post #3250 of 5355
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Is this working for anyone else?
The macro is still crashing on my system. Tried it out on another computer just to be sure that laptop doesn't have something else going on and it crashes on it too.
Did a repair to .net framwork 4.0 and it didn't make any difference.
Prior to 2.3, it use to work.
Again, referencing my comment above, saying that the macro is "crashing on my system" is not particularly helpful. What, exactly, is occurring? I am not seeing any problems.
post #3251 of 5355
Quote:
Originally Posted by duke32 View Post

I think you'll find your answer here : http://www.avsforum.com/t/1174468/the-official-chromapure-thread/2580#post_22267870
CM uses lightness data, ACM uses luminance data.
No, actually, in this case there is a real bug. The difference between lightness and luminance wouldn't matter in this case anyway, because all color data gets converted to lightness before making a dE calculation.
post #3252 of 5355
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Sorry for my not being clear enough. I just didn't think there were that many ways a macro can crash. .
In any event, here is a video clip of what's happening.
http://youtu.be/o43KXR2E9Jc

Brilliant comment Jim.

I know what Tom means but this is the slowest crash I've ever seen, not even a 'not responding'.

You've made my day.
post #3253 of 5355
Just a quick question: When positioning the meter (i1 display3 pro) in front of the (projector) screen,

1) how high up should it be (center, upper, lower portion of scree)?
2) how far away from the screen?
3) angled up, down, or straight ahead?

thanks, i am working on my first ever calibration (chromapure, of course).............................................

atabea
post #3254 of 5355
Quote:
Originally Posted by atabea View Post

Just a quick question: When positioning the meter (i1 display3 pro) in front of the (projector) screen,
1) how high up should it be (center, upper, lower portion of scree)?
2) how far away from the screen?
3) angled up, down, or straight ahead?
thanks, i am working on my first ever calibration (chromapure, of course).............................................
atabea
Can I add another question? I am also planning to do my first non-contact measurement. With CP of course.
4) does this have to be done in a complete black room avoiding all reflections on the screen?
post #3255 of 5355
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboman123 View Post

Can I add another question? I am also planning to do my first non-contact measurement. With CP of course.
4) does this have to be done in a complete black room avoiding all reflections on the screen?

Good call turboman!!!!
post #3256 of 5355
acm.zip 439k .zip file
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Sorry for my not being clear enough. I just didn't think there were that many ways a macro can crash. .
In any event, here is a video clip of what's happening.
http://youtu.be/o43KXR2E9Jc
Let me spend some time on this, because it is important to understand what I need for error reporting. A "crash" can mean
- a blue screen
- a fatal exception
- a freeze

Each of these means something entirely different when attempting to track down errors. A Fatal Exception has a detailed error message. I need to know what this is. I also need to know what you were doing when the problem occurred and whether the problem is repeatable or random.

In this particular case, this isn't a crash at all. The macro and the application keep running, but the macro causes unwanted results.

It looks to me like the new macro was not successfully copied into the C:\Program Files (x86)\Display Calibrations LLC\ChromaPure folder, replacing the original. I have attached the correct file. Delete or rename the old acm.exe. Unzip this one and copy into the C:\Program Files (x86)\Display Calibrations LLC\ChromaPure folder.
Edited by TomHuffman - 11/6/12 at 7:21pm
post #3257 of 5355
Quote:
Originally Posted by atabea View Post

Just a quick question: When positioning the meter (i1 display3 pro) in front of the (projector) screen,
1) how high up should it be (center, upper, lower portion of scree)?
2) how far away from the screen?
3) angled up, down, or straight ahead?
thanks, i am working on my first ever calibration (chromapure, of course).............................................
atabea
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1174468/the-official-chromapure-thread/2950_50#post_22472837
post #3258 of 5355
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboman123 View Post

Can I add another question? I am also planning to do my first non-contact measurement. With CP of course.
4) does this have to be done in a complete black room avoiding all reflections on the screen?
Not completely black, but quite dim. You want to meter reading the light off of the screen, not the light coming from the room. BTW, if you want to read black level, then the room should should be completely dark.
post #3259 of 5355
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

There is a weird bug with the dE calculations in the ACM module that we are working on now.
Saying that the acm macro "did not work" is not helpful. What, exactly, occurred? I just tested it here and it was fine. Are you sure that you downloaded and installed the macro into the correct folder?
When reporting a problem, and this applies to everyone, please be as specific as possible.
There are very small discrepancies (1 or 2 code values) between the ACM and 75% of Rec. 709 internal test patterns. These crop up just because of rounding errors. We will fix these right away, though I doubt they would make any difference to the readings.
You can export any ACM data you like, but you have to first select the desired level of saturation. It only exports one level at a time.

Hello Tom,
Wanted to try the macro again. Please note, this was done with the file from your website, not the one you posted a few posts ago.

Step1;
Copy acm in the correct folder.
Start measure all (75%amplitude). Then I get the following message:
Capture1.PNG 24k .PNG file
Confirm to run. "Measure all" starts, white is done quickly, then red takes maybe 2min, then switches to green and stops with following screen:
Capture2.PNG 39k .PNG file

Step2:
Run ACM manually with 75% amplitude. dE errors around 20 at 75% saturation, although it was calibrated almost to 0 with the CM module. Same problem as in my previous post.

Step3:
In my previous post, I reported that reinstalling CP without the macro update reduced the large error but still there was an error of around dE=1, and built-in patterns for CM and ACM module were different.
So in step 3, I did the same. Reinstall CP without the macro update. However, now the dE error in the ACM module remains very large (dE around 20) at the 75% saturation. So I cannot repeat the experience from the previous post.
post #3260 of 5355
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboman123 View Post

Hello Tom,
Wanted to try the macro again. Please note, this was done with the file from your website, not the one you posted a few posts ago.
Step1;
Copy acm in the correct folder.
Start measure all (75%amplitude). Then I get the following message:
Capture1.PNG 24k .PNG file
Confirm to run. "Measure all" starts, white is done quickly, then red takes maybe 2min, then switches to green and stops with following screen:
Capture2.PNG 39k .PNG file
Step2:
Run ACM manually with 75% amplitude. dE errors around 20 at 75% saturation, although it was calibrated almost to 0 with the CM module. Same problem as in my previous post.
Step3:
In my previous post, I reported that reinstalling CP without the macro update reduced the large error but still there was an error of around dE=1, and built-in patterns for CM and ACM module were different.
So in step 3, I did the same. Reinstall CP without the macro update. However, now the dE error in the ACM module remains very large (dE around 20) at the 75% saturation. So I cannot repeat the experience from the previous post.
The first screen is a Windows security issue. What version of Windows are you running? Are you logged on as an administrator?
You seem to be having the same problem with the macro as Jim reported. I cannot reproduce this, so I am going to have to investigate further.
The macro has nothing to do with the dE errors. As I said, the dE errors in the ACM module is a known issue and we are working on it.
Finally, if you reinstall then that will eliminate the macro update and revert back to the older version, which certainly doesn't work.
post #3261 of 5355
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

The first screen is a Windows security issue. What version of Windows are you running? Are you logged on as an administrator?
You seem to be having the same problem with the macro as Jim reported. I cannot reproduce this, so I am going to have to investigate further.
The macro has nothing to do with the dE errors. As I said, the dE errors in the ACM module is a known issue and we are working on it.
Finally, if you reinstall then that will eliminate the macro update and revert back to the older version, which certainly doesn't work.
Hello Tom, thanks for the reply.
I have Windows Home Premium SP1 64bit, logged in as administrator, with user account control settings:
Capture3.PNG 74k .PNG file
I understand that you are working on the macro and the dE errors.Thanks.
What about the different RGB settings in the built in patterns in the CM and the ACM module. Have you seen that? Is that correct or not?
post #3262 of 5355
I finally felt brave enought to attempt my first (autocal) calibration using the advanced 125 pts. I am definitely no expert, but I am quite sure the attached reports are not optimal. It would be great if Tom and the other experts around here could take a look and give any feedback. BTW, I used a lumagen mini and my display is a JVC X30. CalibrationSummaryDetailed.pdf 2473k .pdf file ,


Thanks Atabea
post #3263 of 5355
Did you adjust the 100% first using the projector's RGB controls as 100% should be spot on not 24.5dE? It also looks as if the contrast setting might be too high. I'd re check that you can see the brightness and contrast patterns correctly (if necessary cross check using the AVS HD709 as I find them easier to use than the Lumagen ones). Make sure you have the latest version of Lumagen and Chromapure software and re try.

How long did it take to run this autocal and what sensor are you using?
post #3264 of 5355
.....but in COLOR MANAGEMENT with a LUMAGEN is correct REC.709 or 75%REC.709?
post #3265 of 5355
Hello: ) I am not sure if this has been already asked but what pattern do I put up if I want to measure to "75% of Rec 709" from the GCD disk. Is it 75%amplitude/75%saturation, or 75%saturation/100% amplitude? My display is a samsung pnxxd6500 and I have read that it is best to calibrate it to 75%a/75%s.
post #3266 of 5355
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungro View Post

Hello: ) I am not sure if this has been already asked but what pattern do I put up if I want to measure to "75% of Rec 709" from the GCD disk. Is it 75%amplitude/75%saturation, or 75%saturation/100% amplitude? My display is a samsung pnxxd6500 and I have read that it is best to calibrate it to 75%a/75%s.

The 75% refers to Saturation, it's for displays that have issues at 100% saturation. You can use 75% or 100% amplitude (luminance) as long as the white point and primary/secondary colours are all at the same amplitude (luminance).
Hope that helps, Mike.
post #3267 of 5355
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboman123 View Post

Hello Tom, thanks for the reply.
I have Windows Home Premium SP1 64bit, logged in as administrator, with user account control settings:
Capture3.PNG 74k .PNG file
I understand that you are working on the macro and the dE errors.Thanks.
What about the different RGB settings in the built in patterns in the CM and the ACM module. Have you seen that? Is that correct or not?
Please lower your User Account Control setting to the lowest level and try the macro again.
post #3268 of 5355
Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanelli73 View Post

.....but in COLOR MANAGEMENT with a LUMAGEN is correct REC.709 or 75%REC.709?
Please Tom what is the difference?
post #3269 of 5355

Tom,  After selecting 75% in the CP setup, does one have to go into the Lumagen to tell it that this is being used, or does CP deal with that automatically?

post #3270 of 5355
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Tom
What computer and version of Windows do you use????
Getting back to my .net framework question. Do we need to stay with 4.0 or can we upgrade to 4.5?
Windows 7.
4 or 4.5 are both fine.
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