The Official ChromaPure thread - Page 112

Hi Wouter,

thanks for answer, so, i like my tv image, but i don't know if it is correct (saturation correct). My dE's seem good, the gamma curve seem good too, but i'm beginner/amateur.
I'm searching my errors. The image display is very good to me, but i want a image calibrated correctly, unfortunately i don't have comparison parameters.

I'll continue searching knowledge.

BTW, if it isn't obvious, let me point out that if you want to check the amplitudes in ACM, you must select 100% Intensity. Otherwise, the amplitudes will use the lower intensity white as a reference and it screws up the dE calculations. For saturations, you can use any of the intensities.

It stores 5% values, but it is unclear to me if the values stored previously were interpolated. I actually think it makes little difference, but we wanted to get this right in any case.

Keitaro-san, sumimasen, Nihon-jin desuka?
Are you using the internal patterns?
Looks good. For some improvements:
- use the new release 2.3.2 from Tom. That should be better for the ACM advanced color management.
- you show the ACM results for 100% amplitude. But general recommendation is to adjust CM for 75% amplitude.
Myself, I have a 55ES8000 and I use the CM module with internal patterns to calibrate for 75%saturation/75%amplitude, and separately for 100%saturation/75%amplitude. Then I use the average of those settings on the ES8000 and run an ACM with 75% amplitude.

The D3 PRO does not use an LUT. CP corrects its response using a color correction matrix that is the industry standard. See http://www.jeti.com/cms/index.php/other-applications/tristimulus-instrument
I cannot provide any specific information about your Toshiba LCD, as I have not measured it. I would expect that the LCD_Generic mode would remove the great majority of the error, but I can't be any more specific than that.
The only way to "check it with an accurate Spectro" is to get access to a 5nm device. These are quite expensive. The i1Pro--and certainly ColorMunki--won't help.

The only way offset matrices can work accurately is for them to be made on the specific display to be calibrated.
This is the only way it can work accurately.
Doing 'generic' offsets is no better than the pre-sets included in the probe.

This means the offset has to be held in the calibration software, not the probe.
We do see improvements to the i1 Dsiplay Pro when calibrated to a i1 Pro 2, but obviously even better results when matched to a Jeti/PR.

See this info page: http://www.lightillusion.com/probe_use.html for a bit more info.

Steve

Hi Steve,

Thanks for reply.

I know the OEM D3 is a good meter with sufficient accuracy to measure even invisible dE values.

Both you and Tom seem to say it varies according to the Panel so it boils down to checking my individual panel with a Spectro.

Even the cost of an i1Display 2 Basic Spectro is a high price to pay for this Panel checkup, let alone the Jeti.

Tom has found visible errors can occur with the OEM D3 at manufacturing stage so perhaps any Panel errors will cancel this potential error out or maybe the errors add up to an even bigger error.

Bearing in mind I am uninterested in any non visible accuracy (I am an amateur not a Professional Calibrator), is the ColorMunki Photo counterproductive in checking out my Panel, in fact useless for this purpose?

Has anyone else tried out their i1Display3 pro with ChromaPure release 2.3.2 ?

Using white balance module, in continuous, my readings are jumping around.

Also tried grayscale and readings are a good bit different than my i1pro2.

This is only with the i1D3pro. I1pro2 doesn't exhibit this behavior.

I have as well. Notified Tom of it last night, had the poor guy up at 1:30AM doing tests. He wasn't able to reproduce it at that time. Are you using plasma mode?

I would contact him so he can ascertain what we have in common that causes this issue.
Edited by Greg1981 - 11/14/12 at 8:11am

Tom,
Used autocal with CP Pro and D3Pro to calibrate an LG 55LH90 LCD, LED with local dimming.

Autocal let me select pattern size (fields vs windows) but the selection of saturation and luminance was greyed out.

This is contrary to your post and release notes. Hence Saturation and Luminance selection not available.
The calibration results are good.

100 %sat.pdf 578k .pdf file
Edited by catmother - 11/14/12 at 9:28am

Hello Jimp, i tried, but the new CP version is very unstable for me. I tried measure my grayscale, but above 50% stimulus, the numbers are crazy.
On white balance module, the numbers are ok on low light, but not on high light.

I tried measure colors too, but the meter is slowly now , before update was faster.
The color patterns is in high light.

How can i download CP 2.3.1?

What "saturation and luminance" selections are you referring to? The only place that these selections are available is in Advanced Color Management, and there is nothing grayed out there. The Duo's ability to put out test patterns of multiple saturations and intensities has nothing to do with auto-cal. If you are referring to Advanced Auto-Cal, this is a Lumagen-only feature. The Duo supports test patterns of all types now, but it does not support calibration within the color space. That would require a major firmware update for the Duo.

There is obviously something wrong with our implementation of the plasma burst mode. It may take a day or two to sort this out. In the meantime, those using Display 3 meters, just use the Standard mode. Those using the Display 3 PRO meters, notify ChromaPure Support and we will send you a license file in which the plasma corrections are applied to one of the other modes you are not using.

When the problem is fixed, we will post a new build and everyone can go back to using the Plasma mode.

My apologies, false alarm, here is where I became confused.
On the options page, select generator, the Duo selection page shows 4 selections windows:

Select Pattern type (fields, windows)
Select signal intensity (100, 75)
and 2 windows, select color format and select resolution, these grayed out..

I (mistakenly) believed that those selection options would carry over to other CP modules including autocal.

As the saying goes : Now you know the rest of the story.

Thanks Tom.

Hello Turbo, thanks for answer.
I'm using AVS HD 709 patterns, i select 100% colors and adjust color space, i tried 75% colors too. The 75% have a better result than 100%.

What the correct patterns to adjust CMS? My TV have adjust controls to primaries (RGB) and secondaries (YCM) colors.

I'm doing adjusts following this steps:
1) select color decoding in CP
2) select 100% colors patterns
3) adjust TV color measuring 100% red pattern (rule: red with 21% from luma white 100%)
4) select color management in CP
5) select RGB on combo mode
6) adjust color space on TV using 100% color patterns
7) adjust each color to the bars disappear (0% or near)

The steps above is right or wrong?

thanks

You select the color format (YCbCr or RGB) and resolution in the Duo itself. The test pattern selectors (size and intensity) do carry over into auto-cal. You can use windows or fields and 75% or 100% color test patterns.

This is why we missed this in testing. I only looked at low light levels, because I have never seen any problem at high light levels before.

OK, we have fixed the Plasma mode--a simple fix with rather large consequences.

Download using the same link, uninstall the previous version, and install this one.

Everything else is the same.

Now that I have the new release finished, I can respond to this post. Where to start. . . . ?

First, you employ a common fallacy that I have been battling ever since I got into this business. You refer to a matrix correction working "accurately". This implies a binary distinction between accurate and inaccurate. There is no such thing. There is no such thing, except as a theoretical concept, as absolute accuracy. Accuracy is always relative to some standard or level of tolerance. The SMPTE standard for accuracy is xy0.0015. I round this up to xy0.002. Any reading that is within +- xy0.002 from a reference instrument is accurate.

With that clarification out of the way, is it true that correction matrices can only be accurate when "made on the specific display to be calibrated"? No. This is simply not true. I have tested this many times. I did a test some time back with a correction matrix created on a Panasonic plasma and then used for a Pioneer plasma, but I cannot find that post, so I just did it again, this time on two different Panasonic plasma models, a ST30 and a VT30. Here's what I got. I used a JETI 1201 as a reference and an i1D3 as the colorimeter.



As you can see, the correction matrix created on a 46" inch ST30 and applied to a reading of a 55" VT30 provided an "accurate" result. The reason for this is that there are house similarities in various display technologies. This is less important with plasma than it is with LCD, which is why we have six different LCD modes in our PRO meters.
Well, no again. The main reason that this is incorrect is something that I discuss above. Generic factory corrections do not take into consideration meter-to-meter variation, which can be non-trivial. For example, two different i1D3s reading the exact same color on the exact same display within minutes of one another will often yield different results. These differences can be very small (LED flat panels) to something rather more substantial (LED DLP Projector), with plasma and CCFL LCD falling somewhere in between.

Tom can you confirm the latest version is 2..3.2.39555?

Can you use 75% Saturation Patterns in Auto Cal?

hello Tom,
Thanks for the version 2.3.2
Some questions on that. I noticed you removed the RGB values on the builtin patterns, but did you check the patterns themselves? Because I noticed the following:

I noticed a spike in gamma at 85IRE, but this was not there with the AVSHD pattern (see also my email to you in the past).
Builtinpattern.PNG 25k .PNG file
AVSHD.PNG 25k .PNG file

Then, I still have the same problem with CM/ACM module, as reported here in post 3258:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1174468/the-official-chromapure-thread/3240

Problem is that 75%saturation/75%amplitude reads Y=59cd/m2 in the CM module, but 58cd/m2 in the ACM, for basically the same grey.
This corresponds with the RGB values which were printed on the pattern in version 2.3.1, which was RGB 193-193-86 in the CM module, and 190-190-85 in ACM. This corresponds with my measured Y values. Because of this, I have the impression that there is a problem with the builtin patterns.
CM.PNG 9k .PNG file
ACMbaseline.PNG 10k .PNG file
ACMsecondary.PNG 11k .PNG file

So when you profile an i1D3pro from an i1pro2, does it retain the information for the pulse/plasma feature?

I see slight different contrast pattern between Auto-Cal test pattern and Mini Reference pattern when running 2.3.2

How to reproduce :
Set up contrast using the reference contrast pattern from other->reference->contrast pattern and i.e. I set it as 17 when using this pattern..
Move to Auto-call menu and press 3 buttons for test pattern before starting auto-cal and check the contrast pattern.. i.e. this time the contrast pattern Chromapure generated to Lumagen makes me to set the contrast as 22.

Tom, can you check?

Hi Jim,
Seeing as Tom said that the new Plasma Burst mode should improve the ability of the iD3, I for one will be creating a new correction profile when I next get around to using Chromapure - then I will note all the values, Ref & Field so that I can re-enter the data for the following few months.
Regards, Mike.

Profiling has no effect on the meter mode.

You should see a slight difference. The reference pattern locks out any adjustments that may have been made. The pattern that is used in auto-cal is adjustable, not reference.

No, but you can (and should) use 75% stimulus.

HI Tom, Is it possible to use my D3 pro meter to measure lumens in the lumens calculator? I get stuck where I have to enter a measurement value and there is no option to "measure."

Thanks

Use the Raw Data module to measure at 100%. Then just type that value into the Measurement Value field.