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The Official ChromaPure thread - Page 114

post #3391 of 4337
11/19/12 at 11:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyokushinkai View Post

Hi Tom.
The problem with plasma mode is solved?
Users Dispaly 3 PRO have to contact support to workaround chromapure license file?
Excuse my english
Than you smile.gif
It is fixed.
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post #3392 of 4337
11/19/12 at 11:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1981 View Post

I have a question of my own. I'm feeding RGB into my display, as my iScan Duo is outputting a PC resolution (768p). Because of this, my display expects computer video levels. Problem is, having the Duo output computer levels causes visible banding viewing Gray Ramp patterns; in addition, it fails to pass WTW and BTB. I can set the Duo to output Video levels, and this alleviates both issues, but the screen washes out, as expected. My display doesn't allow me to change the HDMI Black Level in this mode.
My question is, if I fix it with the display's controls, does this matter? For example, if my display settings were Contrast 72, Brightness 61 (proper black level and 30ftl) before, and are now Contrast 88, Brightness 31 (for proper black level and 30ftl) when having the Duo output video levels, does everything equate? There isn't much difference between them when set at these settings (very minor white balance and color adjustments), and I haven't noticed any obvious visual problems.
Aside from the more extreme Brightness and Contrast adjustments, is there anything I should be aware of that is detrimental to the image by using this workaround?
As long as you are not clipping white, crushing black, or screwing up white balance at the high end, that sounds fine.
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post #3393 of 4337
11/19/12 at 12:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

As long as you are not clipping white, crushing black, or screwing up white balance at the high end, that sounds fine.

Thanks Tom, much appreciated.
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post #3394 of 4337
11/19/12 at 7:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stereofink View Post

Any idea when we will have the 5% grayscale option in Autocal for the Duo?
The Duo now supports generation of a 5% increment test patterns, but it does not support adjustment at 5% increments--0-100% in 10% increments only.
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post #3395 of 4337
11/20/12 at 3:43pm
Not sure what to do with that new ability for the Duo, but thanks for the reply Tom.
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post #3396 of 4337
11/20/12 at 4:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stereofink View Post

Not sure what to do with that new ability for the Duo, but thanks for the reply Tom.

I found when using the AVS and DVE discs and viewing a 15% gray pattern for example, that adjusting the next upward level (20% in this case) on the Duo affects grayscale and gamma for the 15% pattern. Particularly when you adjust Y. YMMV, but it may be useful. I too would love Simplay to release a firmware to make adjustments at the 5% level.
Edited by Greg1981 - 11/20/12 at 4:45pm
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post #3397 of 4337
11/21/12 at 3:27am
Hello,

Just a question regarding the placement of the i1 Display PRO to calibrate a Plasma :
Should it be in contact with the screen ? Or a few inches before ?

What would you recommend ?

Thank you.
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post #3398 of 4337
11/21/12 at 5:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlg33 View Post

Hello,
Just a question regarding the placement of the i1 Display PRO to calibrate a Plasma :
Should it be in contact with the screen ? Or a few inches before ?
What would you recommend ?
Thank you.
I'd keep it a few few inches back on a tripod to avoid the heat.
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post #3399 of 4337
11/22/12 at 2:00am
I thought contact mode was OK? That it does not matter for the i1 display III as it compensates for the temperature as long as you allow a 20-30 minute warm up? Or am I mistaken?
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post #3400 of 4337
11/22/12 at 2:09am
That might be true, but consider this also, heating it up and cooling it down like that will make the filters degrade faster, becoming less acurate quicker. Taking readings on a tripod with a darkened room is equally as effective and a lot better for your meter in the long run.
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post #3401 of 4337
11/22/12 at 3:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wouter73 View Post

That might be true, but consider this also, heating it up and cooling it down like that will make the filters degrade faster, becoming less acurate quicker. Taking readings on a tripod with a darkened room is equally as effective and a lot better for your meter in the long run.

A tripod is simply a support, yes? So would it matter if I just put a box on my cabinets that supports the meter (or whatever that floats my boat)?

I've not yet been able to figure out how far from the screen the meter should go when on a tripod. I read somewhere that as the distance increases, Y (luminance) drops. This looks like a potential pitfall to me. But you do raise a very valid point that the heat may degrade the meter faster. Thank you for pointing this out.
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post #3402 of 4337
11/22/12 at 3:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen1000 View Post

I thought contact mode was OK? That it does not matter for the i1 display III as it compensates for the temperature as long as you allow a 20-30 minute warm up? Or am I mistaken?

I ask Joel that question and he suggested that I use contact mode with my C6 and my VT50.
I use small windows and I don't want to back up my C6 to much so I keep it about 1/2 " off my screen and keep the room cool when calibrating.
I use the bracket that came with the C6 and attach it to one of my cheap speaker stands that is adjustable. Works well.


ss.
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post #3403 of 4337
11/22/12 at 3:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen1000 View Post

A tripod is simply a support, yes? So would it matter if I just put a box on my cabinets that supports the meter (or whatever that floats my boat)?
I've not yet been able to figure out how far from the screen the meter should go when on a tripod. I read somewhere that as the distance increases, Y (luminance) drops. This looks like a potential pitfall to me. But you do raise a very valid point that the heat may degrade the meter faster. Thank you for pointing this out.

Your name suggests you're dutch or dutch speaking, a tripod is een statief, its just to get the device in a certain position. But a tripod is a lot more practical when it comes to aiming your device then a stack of books or a box. I keep my meters about 10 to 20 cm from the display, about 4 to 8 inches.
I've never had any luminace issues, in fact the reference spectro's like the jeti specbos aren't even designed to be in contact mode. But you can experiment yourself with distance and see in your calibration programm what it does for your luminance readings.
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post #3404 of 4337
11/22/12 at 4:26am
Hi Wouter, yes I'm from Belgium actually. I knew what a tripod is but the one I can use is rather large and my i1 display III pro is being delivered today (too bad they are not letting me off work earlier:D). And I want tor be extra careful with my meter in light of your comment about the heat:). I'll be sure to report whether I have such issues or not. Perhaps the comments about luminance issues were about older colorimeters like the spyder.
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post #3405 of 4337
11/22/12 at 6:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen1000 View Post

Hi Wouter, yes I'm from Belgium actually. I knew what a tripod is but the one I can use is rather large and my i1 display III pro is being delivered today (too bad they are not letting me off work earlier:D). And I want tor be extra careful with my meter in light of your comment about the heat:). I'll be sure to report whether I have such issues or not. Perhaps the comments about luminance issues were about older colorimeters like the spyder.

I use both my i1Pro and i1Display3 in non-contact mode, about 8 inches off the screen (plasma). This is for two reasons, it stops the panel heating the meter as already said by others, but I also prefer that the meters can "see" a larger area (number of pixel elements) and hence will in effect average over the observed area. I can also confirm no drop in luminance as the meter is moved, again probably due to the larger area in view. The only downside of this method is the need to keep the room dark during meter reads.
Regards, Mike.
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post #3406 of 4337
11/22/12 at 11:30am
Thanks Mike and Wouter. I must have picked up some wrong information then and I should be able to confirm this easily. Keeping the room dark will be easy and as can black it out completely apart from the laptop but I could dim its screen.
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post #3407 of 4337
11/22/12 at 11:38am
Well a drop in luminance might not even be a problem since contrast settings are fairly subjective (what doesnt cause eyestrain and "best" setting is between 30 and 40, pretty wide margin), and the luminance of colors are in relation to the luminance of white, so if your luminance drops from non contact mode, they all drop, and it is accurate again.
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post #3408 of 4337
11/22/12 at 12:29pm
Thank you all for the replies. (Especially Tom of course who started) wink.gif

I'll place my i1 a few inches away from my plasma.
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post #3409 of 4337
11/23/12 at 9:52am
When I adjust my gamma I use the Gamma pattern from the GCD disk which goes from 100 ire to 0 ire. Adjust my 10pt controls to match the Y for the target gamma using the real time gamma module. Then I put up a Grey scale pattern which goes from 0 ire to 100 ire and measure the results of the grey scale . The gamma averages out to 2.17. In the 90 IRE the gamma value doesn't match the value I had set it to in the real time module using the Gamma pattern. Ex. 90 IRE gamma 2.05 using the greyscale pattern and 2.23 for 90 IRE using gamma pattern. Any ideas what is happening? What am I doing wrong?
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post #3410 of 4337
11/23/12 at 11:20am
When you do realtime gamma/whitebalance, do you do multiple passes?
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post #3411 of 4337
11/24/12 at 1:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlg33 View Post

Thank you all for the replies. (Especially Tom of course who started) wink.gif
I'll place my i1 a few inches away from my plasma.
Just one more thing :

Should I be using the windows APL to calibrate my plasma since the meter is not in contact ?
Won't there be any luminance measurement issue ?

I read that we should be using windowed APL instead of full screen APL for plasmas, since the peak of luminance are not the same between the two patterns. (Far less bright in full screen mode)

What would you suggest ? (I'm using AVSHD 709, an i1 Display 3 PRO with CP on a P42V20 plasma TV)

Thank you. wink.gif
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post #3412 of 4337
11/24/12 at 1:57am
An APL pattern is always a windowed pattern, surrounded by an illuminated area. If you look at the AVCHD disc, its a small greyscale window surrounded by either various greyscale steps, or a color window surrounded by the other colors. The reason for this is to prevent the ABL (automatic brightness limiter) of your plasma, which would reduce luminance "artificially" for the desired patters you use. Therefore, a full screen apl does not exist.

With plasma, I found it is a matter of experimenting. My plasma (vt50) seems to work best with the 1% apl patterns on the CGD, also to be found on this forum.

There will not be a luminance problem if you aim your meter proparly. With greyscale, the APL luminance is about 25% I believe, so only patterns 10% and 20% will have lower luminance then the surrounding area. With color I dont know.

However, I do know that you will get the best results with plasma using windowed patterns, now it's up to you to see if for your set that would be 10% windowds, 1% windows, with or without APL, with the APL as found on the AVCHD disc or the one found on the CGD.
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post #3413 of 4337
11/24/12 at 2:49am
Tom, running full baseline, primary and secondary measurements in the advanced CM then resetting form and changing pattern intensity causes an unhandled exception.
Quote:
See the end of this message for details on invoking
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
at ChromaPure.Controls.Calibration.AdvancedColorManagementControl.RadioButtonClicked(Object sender, EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.ComboBox.OnSelectedIndexChanged(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.ComboBox.WmReflectCommand(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ComboBox.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
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The application must also be compiled with debugging
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For example:





When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
rather than be handled by this dialog box.
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post #3414 of 4337
11/24/12 at 4:29pm
edit: hold on, I probably should have measured white as the lumince of the RGBYCM colors is relative to the lumincane of white. I'm betting that is where I went badly wrong:).

luminance.jpg 28k .jpg file

I've done the Color Management calibration and got everything dialed in to about 1 dE. I was quite happy with that until the Post Calibration Color Gamut sweep gave me the above.
Maybe I'm doing something wrong but during the actual calibration Y looked good and hence, I am confused why the post calibration report is so awful?
I'm using a Iscan DUO for the CMS work on a Panasonic PF11EK professional plasma. I'm using v2.3.2 of Chromapure with an i1 display III enhanced with extra calibration tables.

Anyone got any ideas or experienced the same thing?
Edited by Jeroen1000 - 11/24/12 at 5:37pm
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post #3415 of 4337
11/24/12 at 9:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audionut11 View Post

Tom, running full baseline, primary and secondary measurements in the advanced CM then resetting form and changing pattern intensity causes an unhandled exception.
When you reset the form, the focus is removed from the color selectors and no color is selected. Just select White before changing the Intensity and the error will not occur. Even if you forget and the error does occur, it is benign. You can click Continue, select White, and the start the measurements.
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post #3416 of 4337
11/24/12 at 9:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungro View Post

When I adjust my gamma I use the Gamma pattern from the GCD disk which goes from 100 ire to 0 ire. Adjust my 10pt controls to match the Y for the target gamma using the real time gamma module. Then I put up a Grey scale pattern which goes from 0 ire to 100 ire and measure the results of the grey scale . The gamma averages out to 2.17. In the 90 IRE the gamma value doesn't match the value I had set it to in the real time module using the Gamma pattern. Ex. 90 IRE gamma 2.05 using the greyscale pattern and 2.23 for 90 IRE using gamma pattern. Any ideas what is happening? What am I doing wrong?
What are the luminance levels for both 100% and 90% in each case?
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post #3417 of 4337
11/25/12 at 3:12am
Hi Tom,

After a few calibrations sessoins, I only have a few questions so far. If you have a moment, could you help me out a bit:

1) When using the CMS on an iScan DUO, does it matter what I adjust first: x, y or Y? Is there a best way to go about this? I would bet on no, because when I adjust Y too much and then adjust x or y, Y usually rises or drops making me have to undo part of the adjustment I made to Y. This way it all balances out.

2) The color windows patterns on the iScan duo (RGBWCMY), are at 100% saturation and 75% stimulus (I believe you have reviewed one), am I correct about that? So that means I am not able to calibrate to 75% (saturation) of REC. 709 using an iScan DUO?
Does it matter at what stimilus level the patterns are for gamut calibration? Does it matter at what saturation the patterns are for gamut calibration? It looks like Chromapure is expection 100% saturation patterns (judging from the position of the primaries on the CIE diagram in the Color Management module).

This is my take on it: x, y does not change when only the stimulus level changes. Only Y will be change. Thus, I need only find out the saturation of the iScan DUO pattern which should be 100%.


Thanks for your time! Much appreciated.
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post #3418 of 4337
11/25/12 at 9:24am
Re 75% saturation colours,
Color Management > Select Color Space > Drop Down Menu > Select 75% Rec 709.

Will generate 75% saturation patterns within the Duo.
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post #3419 of 4337
11/25/12 at 11:44am
I do not have an RS-232 to USB adapter yet so I'm selecting the patterns using the DUO's remote. However, I have not found a 75% saturation pattern. AFAIK ,the "RED75" pattern for instance, is at 75% stimulus and 100% saturisation and not 75% saturisation.

But are you saying that Chromapure can generate access additional patterns that are hidden in the DUO?
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post #3420 of 4337
11/25/12 at 12:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen1000 View Post

I do not have an RS-232 to USB adapter yet so I'm selecting the patterns using the DUO's remote. However, I have not found a 75% saturation pattern. AFAIK ,the "RED75" pattern for instance, is at 75% stimulus and 100% saturisation and not 75% saturisation.
But are you saying that Chromapure can generate access additional patterns that are hidden in the DUO?

Yes.
The Duo can act as a great Pattern Generator.

Try downloading the latest version of Michaels 'Duo Control Panel' which also generates patterns on the Duo via its Custom Tab:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1180042/new-dvdo-iscan-duo-2-0-firmware-released/3330#post_22567953

Unfortunately you will need a USB to serial lead.
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