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The Official ChromaPure thread - Page 125

post #3721 of 5345
Quote:
Originally Posted by PE06MCG View Post

I could not agree more, however my contention is that 125 point calibration would not improve my PQ because my average dE2000 is below 1.0 which is not far off the best a 125 point calibration can achieve.

There is a ISF trained (by Sencore) calibrator in my area who charges $250.
Lumagen Radiance - $3400/250= 13 calibrations, each user can do the math. IMO no contest.

BTW Two of my sisters live in the UK. I have visited the UK on several occasions, once during World War II

One one visit (mid sixties) my sister and her husband took me to the Elizabethan room at the Gore hotel. A memorable experience although my memory may be a bit dimmed by the amount of Mead I consumed.
Edited by catmother - 12/27/12 at 10:38am
post #3722 of 5345
Quote:
Originally Posted by catmother View Post

There is a ISF trained (by Sencore) calibrator in my area who charges $250.
Lumagen Radiance - $3400/250= 13 calibrations, each user can do the math. IMO no contest.
BTW Two of my sisters live in the UK. I have visited the UK on several occasions, once during World War II
One one visit (mid sixties) my sister and her husband took me to the Elizabethan room at the Gore hotel. A memorable experience although my memory may be a bit dimmed by the amount of Mead I consumed.

I don't undervalue the work a Pro calibrator can do but certainly a VP makes long term financial sense to me (apart from giving me a hobby in my retirement).

Regarding the UK, I'm afraid I live in the Northern part of England that is seen by the Southern Counties as being a little less refined and a lot more rural and hilly at least in Yorkshire where I live...

Never tasted mead but I'll take your word for it.
post #3723 of 5345
Quote:
Originally Posted by PE06MCG View Post

I could not agree more, however my contention is that 125 point calibration would not improve my PQ because my average dE2000 is below 1.0 which is not far off the best a 125 point calibration can achieve.
Not all displays will benefit from 125-point--only those with nonlinear color performance.
post #3724 of 5345
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

Not all displays will benefit from 125-point--only those with nonlinear color performance.

Thanks Tom, that's my assessment as well.

I just know that without your Advanced Color Management (pre 125 calibration) I would not have been aware of the different saturation possibilities.

I have then been pleasantly surprised by the results and thank you for the tools to achieve my decision making.
post #3725 of 5345
Quote:
Originally Posted by catmother View Post

There is a ISF trained (by Sencore) calibrator in my area who charges $250.
Lumagen Radiance - $3400/250= 13 calibrations, each user can do the math. IMO no contest.
BTW Two of my sisters live in the UK. I have visited the UK on several occasions, once during World War II
One one visit (mid sixties) my sister and her husband took me to the Elizabethan room at the Gore hotel. A memorable experience although my memory may be a bit dimmed by the amount of Mead I consumed.

Keep in mind that not everyone will be buying the top end Radiance. A Mini 3D can be had for half of that. if the display is a projection device you can make a much more compelly argument as calibrations are required not only at each lamp change but are quite helpful as the lamp ages. If the display is non linear the pro-calibration might not be able to make it right without a Lumagen anyway.
post #3726 of 5345
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

Keep in mind that not everyone will be buying the top end Radiance. A Mini 3D can be had for half of that. if the display is a projection device you can make a much more compelly argument as calibrations are required not only at each lamp change but are quite helpful as the lamp ages. If the display is non linear the pro-calibration might not be able to make it right without a Lumagen anyway.

No dispute but with 13 calibrations the user can have a lot of lamp aging/changes. But the real point is the numerous choices facing the user/owner.

As for a nonlinear display IMO the Duo could handle that as well.
post #3727 of 5345
Quote:
Originally Posted by catmother View Post

No dispute but with 13 calibrations the user can have a lot of lamp aging/changes. But the real point is the numerous choices facing the user/owner.
As for a nonlinear display IMO the Duo could handle that as well.

I have both the DUO and an XS... the 125 PT is a huge advantage and if you need well worth the price of admission. The DUO is much friendlier device but then with Advance Auto-Cal you don't really need to get to know the Lumagen very well.
post #3728 of 5345
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

I have both the DUO and an XS... the 125 PT is a huge advantage and if you need well worth the price of admission. The DUO is much friendlier device but then with Advance Auto-Cal you don't really need to get to know the Lumagen very well.

BTW I still have your pattern disk, purchased years ago.
post #3729 of 5345
Hi,
I have question abou AVSHD test patterns when using CP for calibrating LED TV. I know I can use field patterns. Directory content of ChromaPure Windows (MP4-2c as I need to calibrate USB input) is

1. 5% Grayscale
2. 10% Gamma
3. 10% Grayscale
4. 75% Color
5. 100% Color
6. Contrast
7. Gamma Options
8. Saturation.

Chromapure modules are

Precalibration
1.Grayscale
2.Color Gamut
Calibration
3.White Balance
4.Color Decoding
5.Color Management
6.Advanced CM
7.Gamma
8.Contrast
Post-Calibration
9.Gray Scale
10. Color Gamut

What are correct MODULE to PATTERN mappings ???

1 - 3, 2 - 5, 3 - 3, 4 - 5, 5 - 5(or 4), 6 - 8, 7 - 2, 8 - 6, 9 - 3, 10 - 5. Is it right ?

I am asking, because I am not sure in module 5 when selected 75% Rec.709 if I should use directory 4 or 8 ....

Thank you for answering beginners question.
post #3730 of 5345
I don't have the AVSHD disc in front of me, but I believe that the 75% Color and 100% Color patterns refer to % intensity, not saturation.

I think you'll need to use the 75% saturation patterns in the Saturation group when calibrating to the 75% of Rec.709 gamut.
post #3731 of 5345
I m trying to calibrate my JVC X35 in 3D mode with ChromaPure but it just doesn t work until now

I calibrate with the i1 Display III pro upgraded version. +- 50 -100IRE calibration works fine but everything from 5 - 50IRE is not doable. But maybe I am doing something wrong. My meter is positioned 30cm from the center of the screen and angled a little bit horizontal. I fixed the active shutter glasses (left eye) in front of the lens of the meter and put them on. The projector is running in 2D to 3D conversion. When I change values under 50IRE sometimes only one increment in eg. red bias all of a sudden makes the red go from eg. 80% to 120%. Besides the problem I can t get a proper grayscale the gamma is just way off. I ve tried gamma A(3D), gamme B(3D) and gamma C(3D). (These are the only ones you can choose in the 3D setting). All three give a really bad gamma curve going from 2.3@10IRE to something like 1.4@90IRE.

As starting point for the 3D calibration I use the 7500K custom setting and reduced HighGreen A LOT to get approx. 100% green from approx 30 - 100 IRE.
post #3732 of 5345
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderdvd View Post

I m trying to calibrate my JVC X35 in 3D mode with ChromaPure but it just doesn t work until now
I calibrate with the i1 Display III pro upgraded version. +- 50 -100IRE calibration works fine but everything from 5 - 50IRE is not doable. But maybe I am doing something wrong. My meter is positioned 30cm from the center of the screen and angled a little bit horizontal. I fixed the active shutter glasses (left eye) in front of the lens of the meter and put them on. The projector is running in 2D to 3D conversion. When I change values under 50IRE sometimes only one increment in eg. red bias all of a sudden makes the red go from eg. 80% to 120%. Besides the problem I can t get a proper grayscale the gamma is just way off. I ve tried gamma A(3D), gamme B(3D) and gamma C(3D). (These are the only ones you can choose in the 3D setting). All three give a really bad gamma curve going from 2.3@10IRE to something like 1.4@90IRE.
As starting point for the 3D calibration I use the 7500K custom setting and reduced HighGreen A LOT to get approx. 100% green from approx 30 - 100 IRE.

Where do you choose the "custom" 7500K setting?


bob
post #3733 of 5345
Quote:
Originally Posted by spongebob View Post

Where do you choose the "custom" 7500K setting?
bob
color temp
post #3734 of 5345
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderdvd View Post

color temp

Do you mean Options/Calibration/Reference Gamut?

bob
post #3735 of 5345

Question for Tom that might be of interest also to others:   

 

for a display w/o a CMS (as my Sony VW1000), is it a good idea to set Color and Tint on the display before running AutoCal?     I.e., does this help in getting the display closer to the correct point before AutoCal does its thing?     (I do remember that you have noted that it was necessary sometimes to boost the Color setting in the Sony before running AutoCal).    Tx,  Bill

post #3736 of 5345
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Question for Tom that might be of interest also to others:   

for a display w/o a CMS (as my Sony VW1000), is it a good idea to set Color and Tint on the display before running AutoCal?     I.e., does this help in getting the display closer to the correct point before AutoCal does its thing?     (I do remember that you have noted that it was necessary sometimes to boost the Color setting in the Sony before running AutoCal).    Tx,  Bill
The only reason I can think to do this is to raise the Color control if the luminance of one or more colors is too low.
post #3737 of 5345
Tom what is your take on this? Should I adjust the color control plus the CMS when calibrating or leave the color/tint at default and adjust the CMS only. It's a samsung pn51d6500.
post #3738 of 5345
The Samsung has its own CMS. There's no need to fiddle with color/tint.
post #3739 of 5345
Hi

I am having a problem with the communication? between the laptop and mini3d using chromapure. I have tried everything I can think of, including asking Lumagen and Chromapure support. My set up is a mini 3d, Sony vw95 and I am using a Dell Latitude D531 with Windows XP, service pack 3. The Dell is 2 MHz DuoCore with 2 GB of ram. I can start the calibration software, initialize the meter and select the radiance, and then test that the red pattern comes up, which it does. The other patterns on the autocal page, for sharpness, black and white levels, also appear when selected. The problem is that if I try selecting the options on the left side of the screen, say grayscale or white balance, the right side of the screen will change to the correct page, but no pattern will appear on screen. I cannot manually gain access to the patterns using Chromapure. If I start autocal , the patterns seem to change correctly. It appears, since I can get the patterns on the autocal page, that the commands are being sent to and received by the mini. I did try different cables anyway, but it didn't help. Tom has stated that the way the commands are written to access the patterns are is no different on the left column or the right side (autocal page). The strange thing is that when I first started trying to calibrate ( about a month ago), selecting the patterns worked properly. I just started a session one day, and no patterns! I have tried reinstalling the chromapure software, reinstalling .net, and made sure XP had the latest updates. I even reformatted the hard drive and reinstalled windows XP. I also tried two other laptops, a Gateway and a Compaq. The Gateway is running XP with only has 512k memory and the Compaq is running Vista, with3 GB of ram, neither which meet the minimum requirements, but the program did start and ran with the same problem. This is certainly a weird quirk, but if anyone has any suggestions I could try, it would be appreciated. I don't know, maybe with the Duocore, speed could be an issue?

Edit- I even tried different versions of the software.
Edited by tom10536 - 1/3/13 at 10:02am
post #3740 of 5345
Some random thoughts...

What USB to serial converter are you using? Some models are way better than others - IIRC the ones with a prolific chip are supposed to be the best.
Have you tried unplugging the Mini and waiting a minute or so before plugging it back in?
Are you sure nothing has changed in the Lumagen RS232 menu?
Are you sure the Mini is still shown in the Chromapure Options menu? (Mine strangely disappeared from that menu last time I calibrated). And, to mention the obvious, have selected the right serial port in that menu?
Edited by Geof - 1/3/13 at 10:13am
post #3741 of 5345
I have a RS232 port on the laptop, so I am not using a serial converter at this time. I did try unplugging the mini, but I think I will try leaving it unplugged for a few minutes - good suggestion and can't hurt. I changed the Lumagne RS232 option to Echo off and left the other options at default (off) - hopefully these are default. When I reformatted XP, I went back in and selected the Mini again, so I did check this step. When using the right side of the page on the autocal, the Lumagen changes the patterns to these options - I think the I have the correct com port. I picked the highest, Com 5, before the reformat and after the reformat, the only option is COM 1, but it does communicate with the lumagen. Thanks, Tom.
Edited by tom10536 - 1/3/13 at 12:31pm
post #3742 of 5345
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Tom,
What are your thoughts on BT 1886 gamma?
It is a good choice. However, if you have a projector and want to use BT 1886 with auto-cal, be sure to use the override option.
post #3743 of 5345
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom10536 View Post

Hi
I am having a problem with the communication? between the laptop and mini3d using chromapure. I have tried everything I can think of, including asking Lumagen and Chromapure support. My set up is a mini 3d, Sony vw95 and I am using a Dell Latitude D531 with Windows XP, service pack 3. The Dell is 2 MHz DuoCore with 2 GB of ram. I can start the calibration software, initialize the meter and select the radiance, and then test that the red pattern comes up, which it does. The other patterns on the autocal page, for sharpness, black and white levels, also appear when selected. The problem is that if I try selecting the options on the left side of the screen, say grayscale or white balance, the right side of the screen will change to the correct page, but no pattern will appear on screen. I cannot manually gain access to the patterns using Chromapure. If I start autocal , the patterns seem to change correctly. It appears, since I can get the patterns on the autocal page, that the commands are being sent to and received by the mini. I did try different cables anyway, but it didn't help. Tom has stated that the way the commands are written to access the patterns are is no different on the left column or the right side (autocal page). The strange thing is that when I first started trying to calibrate ( about a month ago), selecting the patterns worked properly. I just started a session one day, and no patterns! I have tried reinstalling the chromapure software, reinstalling .net, and made sure XP had the latest updates. I even reformatted the hard drive and reinstalled windows XP. I also tried two other laptops, a Gateway and a Compaq. The Gateway is running XP with only has 512k memory and the Compaq is running Vista, with3 GB of ram, neither which meet the minimum requirements, but the program did start and ran with the same problem. This is certainly a weird quirk, but if anyone has any suggestions I could try, it would be appreciated. I don't know, maybe with the Duocore, speed could be an issue?
Edit- I even tried different versions of the software.

BTW - If anyone is in the Reno area using autocal and Lumagen, and willing to do a little testing, please send me a PM.
post #3744 of 5345
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom10536 View Post

BTW - If anyone is in the Reno area using autocal and Lumagen, and willing to do a little testing, please send me a PM.

I'll email someone (with the link to your post) that may be interested though he would be coming from the lv area..

EDIT: Wait, do you have the Lumagen or are you wanting to go to someone who has the Lumagen?

Reno may be a little far for him unfortunately, he'll PM you though (he has quite the equipment list) ..
Edited by turbe - 1/3/13 at 1:13pm
post #3745 of 5345
Thanks Turbe - I do have the Lumagen, just hoping someone local also has one we could test my laptop on, or vice versa, they could test their laptop on my setup. Unfortunately, Las Vegas is too far away, but again, thanks.
post #3746 of 5345
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Do you have any plans on adding it to Chromapure for non 125 pt calibration?

Just to second this request. It would be great if Chromapure could provide the targets after the user either entered or measured both black & white points. At the moment I think we have to use an external spreadsheet to calculate the target curve (I've actually written my own from the ITU-R BT.1886 info sheet - and when I get a Lumagen Mini this will be one of the first things I try).

Regards, Mike.
post #3747 of 5345
I'm not sure I understand.....it's already possible to perform a bt.1885 gamma (and grayscale) auto calibration without running a 125 pt autocal.

Are you asking for bt.1886 targets in the gamma module?
post #3748 of 5345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

I'm not sure I understand.....it's already possible to perform a bt.1885 gamma (and grayscale) auto calibration without running a 125 pt autocal.
Are you asking for bt.1886 targets in the gamma module?


I would appreciate this as well. For some reason my BT1886 gamma autocal often comes out a long way off the calculated values from the spreadsheet so I have to tweak manually using the gamma module. It would be far easier not to keep having to refer to an external spreadsheet to do this.

Out of curiosity does anyone else get this issue with BT1886 in autocal ? I've tried using both available options - override etc. And when I do tweak to to be spot on it often goes off again after running 125 point gamut frown.gif
post #3749 of 5345
Am I correct to assume this bt. 1885 is a bit brighter in the blacks and a bit darker in the whites? Ive searched but not found a clear explanation of it.
post #3750 of 5345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

I'm not sure I understand.....it's already possible to perform a bt.1885 gamma (and grayscale) auto calibration without running a 125 pt autocal.
Are you asking for bt.1886 targets in the gamma module?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Yes
Quote:
Originally Posted by sniffer66 View Post

I would appreciate this as well. For some reason my BT1886 gamma autocal often comes out a long way off the calculated values from the spreadsheet so I have to tweak manually using the gamma module. It would be far easier not to keep having to refer to an external spreadsheet to do this.
Out of curiosity does anyone else get this issue with BT1886 in autocal ? I've tried using both available options - override etc. And when I do tweak to to be spot on it often goes off again after running 125 point gamut frown.gif

Thanks, yes I can see the value of this. I think I'd use this too now that you bring it up. In fact I'm sure of it because this would greatly simplify manual touch up after a bt.1886 auto cal.
Great suggestion!!

I asked Tom to give us the same gamma values in both the gamma module and the autocal module.....(for example, in the autocal module there is no 2.25 gamma option) but I wasn't thinking of the BT.1886 option at the time.

---

I tried a bt1886 autocal and got some weird curves but that happened when I did not use the overrides. My understanding is the program measures 100% and 0% luminance and then computes the gamma values based on these measurements. With my JVC projector the low luminance measurement cannot be accurately taken so the gamma curve can end up as something one does not expect (or desire). I think it is critical that both the low and high luminance overrides are used - with accurate values - for projectors because the target gamma values are very dependent on the contrast ratio (as shown in the chart in this post).
Edited by Geof - 1/4/13 at 3:26pm
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