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The Official ChromaPure thread - Page 125

post #3721 of 4357
12/24/12 at 2:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

I would love to see and Avdanced Autocal for the Lumage where the HTPC itself is the pattern generator. I know this depends on renderers and playback software. Still it would be nice to actually have accurate color out of a display chain using an HTPC as a source using Advanced Auto-Calibration.
We have been thinking of adding support for additional test pattern generators other than the processor itself. Most of my thinking along these lines has been focused on the AccuPel, but internal test patterns are possible too. I'll chew this over.
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post #3722 of 4357
12/24/12 at 2:36am
That's going to be fun, creating 125 custom testpatterns wink.gif

That would be nice, a piece of software were you can create your own patterns, load them into the lumagen and then control them with chromapure wink.gif.

Not an official request, just thinking out loud wink.gif
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post #3723 of 4357
12/24/12 at 5:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wouter73 View Post

That's going to be fun, creating 125 custom testpatterns wink.gif
That would be nice, a piece of software were you can create your own patterns, load them into the lumagen and then control them with chromapure wink.gif.
Not an official request, just thinking out loud wink.gif

If you have a Duo this 'Duo Control Panel' does exactly that (see Custom Tab):

http://qixle.com/iscanduo/
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post #3724 of 4357
12/24/12 at 6:06am
I see that he is able to accept donations again through paypal for the DVDO iScan Duo Control Panel . So I just made a small donation. I only wish I had started using the program a year and a half ago when I first downloaded it.

EDIT: And I just pulled the trigger on the ChromaPure Auto-Calibrate Bundle which inludes the Display 3 PRO colorimeter, ChromaPure Standard, and the Auto-Calibrate Add-on.
Edited by aaronwt - 12/24/12 at 6:29am
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post #3725 of 4357
12/25/12 at 7:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

I see that he is able to accept donations again through paypal for the DVDO iScan Duo Control Panel . So I just made a small donation. I only wish I had started using the program a year and a half ago when I first downloaded it.
EDIT: And I just pulled the trigger on the ChromaPure Auto-Calibrate Bundle which inludes the Display 3 PRO colorimeter, ChromaPure Standard, and the Auto-Calibrate Add-on.

You will not regret your decision.
I have used ChromaPure Pro and the D3Pro for nearly a year and have never looked back.
That is with an iScan Duo VP
Edited by catmother - 12/25/12 at 8:05am
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post #3726 of 4357
12/26/12 at 11:17am
Would much prefer the Grayscale and Gamma Windows be on the same page. After doing the Grayscale, always found a rising Gamma, and then had to recalibrate to get the Gamma back down to 2.22.
Being on the same page, one could counter the rising Gamma, and not have to resort to Grayscaling, then re-calibrating on the Gamma Page.
Please note, I do not have this problem with Calman, and Calman does have several different Windows on the same page to reference to. I bounce back and forth between to 2 softwares, depending at the time, who's giving me the best results.
AutoCal, I prefer Manual modes for Grayscale and CMS: I get better results. The 125 Point 3D LUT, I definitely do AutoCal!
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post #3727 of 4357
12/26/12 at 11:38am
In chromapure in the gamma section there is a greyscale RGB window, I always do greyscale and gamma at the same time. I really don't understand what it is you are missing.
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post #3728 of 4357
12/26/12 at 11:57am


I guess I must really mis the point bigtime, here is the gamma module, with embedded a pretty large greyscale window.
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post #3729 of 4357
12/26/12 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wouter73 View Post

In chromapure in the gamma section there is a greyscale RGB window, I always do greyscale and gamma at the same time. I really don't understand what it is you are missing.

Same here...the gamma page has all the info one needs to adjust either, or both. I prefer setting both at the same time as it speeds up the process quite a bit (for me at least). I would like the gamma value shown in the raw data window as I outlined above though......rolleyes.gif
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post #3730 of 4357
12/26/12 at 12:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

Would much prefer the Grayscale and Gamma Windows be on the same page. After doing the Grayscale, always found a rising Gamma, and then had to recalibrate to get the Gamma back down to 2.22.
Being on the same page, one could counter the rising Gamma, and not have to resort to Grayscaling, then re-calibrating on the Gamma Page.
Please note, I do not have this problem with Calman, and Calman does have several different Windows on the same page to reference to. I bounce back and forth between to 2 softwares, depending at the time, who's giving me the best results.
AutoCal, I prefer Manual modes for Grayscale and CMS: I get better results. The 125 Point 3D LUT, I definitely do AutoCal!

Like you I use both but do not have any problems using the Gamma view in CP.

However in Autocal using CM I note this is done 100 IRE then I think 40 0r 50 Ire then filling in the different IRE's
I think CP is different.

Not certain if they both zero my Duo, I know CP does.

Regarding tweaking, CP and CM behave similarly for me.
I always get Y correct first (gamma) then tweak x and y. Some slight Y adjustment may be necessary but going 100IRE down to 10 IRE then a recheck is my method (nothing to choose between them).

Regarding 125 calibration, is there an alternative to Autocal?

Incidentally what colorchecker results are you getting ?
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post #3731 of 4357
12/26/12 at 1:50pm
AutoCal is Calman. Autocal is Chromapure.
AutoCal is Included with my Calman, plus I can plug any one of numerous Brands of Meters into it, as long as the Licence you hold includes them in it's listing, and not having to pay per Meter.
Asked Tom re a Trial version of Autocal before handing over another $150, to try out, since, as mentioned, I find the AutoCal for Grayscale and CMS in Calman is not as good as doing things Manually. But, there's no Trial Version.
Currently using a Spectracal C6, profiled off my i1Pro, and getting a very good result.
Have monies into both Company's Software and Hardware, and as mentioned, I go where I get the most bang for my buck, or in this case, the best calibration for the monies put out.
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post #3732 of 4357
12/26/12 at 2:20pm
I have a JVC RS1x. I was wondering what equipment is needed to perform an auto calibration of my projector and also what is the most inexpensive combination of equipment. I have been running it for about two years using nothing but a simple calibration disc and I feel like I can achieve a better picture. Any help is appreciated.
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post #3733 of 4357
12/26/12 at 2:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

AutoCal is Calman. Autocal is Chromapure.

Actually although both software packages have auto calibration functionality AuotoCal is specific to CalMAN only.
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post #3734 of 4357
12/26/12 at 2:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam-DiVine View Post

I have a JVC RS1x. I was wondering what equipment is needed to perform an auto calibration of my projector and also what is the most inexpensive combination of equipment. I have been running it for about two years using nothing but a simple calibration disc and I feel like I can achieve a better picture. Any help is appreciated.

I think the most economical package would be Chromapure and the DVDO and Display3 package.    The package with the RadianceMini3d rather than the DVDO is more expensive, so you need to research difference--or best, talk to Tom--to decide which is for you.     Check the Chromapure website for the package prices for these.

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post #3735 of 4357
12/26/12 at 2:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

AutoCal is Calman. Autocal is Chromapure.
AutoCal is Included with my Calman, plus I can plug any one of numerous Brands of Meters into it, as long as the Licence you hold includes them in it's listing, and not having to pay per Meter.
Asked Tom re a Trial version of Autocal before handing over another $150, to try out, since, as mentioned, I find the AutoCal for Grayscale and CMS in Calman is not as good as doing things Manually. But, there's no Trial Version.
Currently using a Spectracal C6, profiled off my i1Pro, and getting a very good result.
Have monies into both Company's Software and Hardware, and as mentioned, I go where I get the most bang for my buck, or in this case, the best calibration for the monies put out.

Apologies on the pedantic naming of Autoc(C)al, I'm sure it is massively important and I apologise to both CP and CM for this error.

I was really asking if there was an alternative to using auto calibration for both CP and CM when using 125 point calibration?

I was also asking if you had examples of this 125 point calibration that had been assessed by Colorchecker?
I realise this is a CM feature only but it definitely is my way to assess the value of my Displays linearity.
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post #3736 of 4357
12/26/12 at 3:21pm
Christie has had a trademark and has been using AutoCal (in relation to automatic display system calibration) long before the companies we are familiar with.

Perhaps best to refer as CalMAN AutoCal and ChromaPure AutoCal
Edited by turbe - 12/26/12 at 3:33pm
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post #3737 of 4357
12/26/12 at 3:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PE06MCG View Post

Apologies on the pedantic naming of Autoc(C)al, I'm sure it is massively important and I apologise to both CP and CM for this error.
I was really asking if there was an alternative to using auto calibration for both CP and CM when using 125 point calibration?
I was also asking if you had examples of this 125 point calibration that had been assessed by Colorchecker?
I realise this is a CM feature only but it definitely is my way to assess the value of my Displays linearity.


Perhaps you would like to look at this
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1180042/new-dvdo-iscan-duo-2-0-firmware-released/3390#post_22747212
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post #3738 of 4357
12/27/12 at 12:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

Christie has had a trademark and has been using AutoCal (in relation to automatic display system calibration) long before the companies we are familiar with.
Perhaps best to refer as CalMAN AutoCal and ChromaPure AutoCal
A phrase cannot be claimed as a valid trademark when it is descriptive of the process that it performs, UNLESS it has over a considerable period of time gotten "acquired distinctiveness" by which we mean that the phrase in question has become uniquely identified by consumers with a particular brand performing a particular function. As a matter of fact, this term is not uniquely associated with Christie. I am in the business and I never heard of it. Also, AutoCal is wholly generic, not even referring to calibration of a specific device, and the terms "calibration" and "automatic"--which are the terms AutoCal simply abbreviates--are themselves generic terms for a generic process.

Lastly, I did a search at the USPTO.GOV web site for AutoCal and I got a hit for three active trademarks
  • chemical, biochemical, biological, and biotechnological preparations for use in the development of immunological reagents for industrial and scientific use
  • computer software for engine and transmission tuning, engine and transmission testing, engine and transmission performance management, engine and transmission development
  • electronic gas monitors with the ability to self-calibrate used for detecting the presence of hazardous gas.

I am guessing that none of these are related to Christie projectors.

Feel free to search the same site for ChromaPure.
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post #3739 of 4357
12/27/12 at 12:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PE06MCG View Post

Regarding 125 calibration, is there an alternative to Autocal?
Sure. If you have a few hours to kill you could manually calibrate each color individually. I can't imagine why anyone would want to do this. The 125-point auto-cal does a really good job of getting very low dEs for all of the colors where it is possible (sometimes it isn't).
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post #3740 of 4357
12/27/12 at 12:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PE06MCG View Post

Apologies on the pedantic naming of Autoc(C)al, I'm sure it is massively important and I apologise to both CP and CM for this error.
I realise this is a CM feature only but it definitely is my way to assess the value of my Displays linearity.
There is no error here. Sometimes I call it auto-calibrate, sometimes auto-cal.
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post #3741 of 4357
12/27/12 at 2:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by catmother View Post

Perhaps you would like to look at this
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1180042/new-dvdo-iscan-duo-2-0-firmware-released/3390#post_22747212

Excellent referral, thanks very much.

My experience is like yours that great results can still be achieved if you use Tom's Advanced CM as a guide then calibrate at another saturation percentage then try it again.

Whilst I'm sure there are many examples of completely non linear displays that any amount of trial and error will not improve but perhaps they are the exception rather than the rule?

It is definitely worth the effort to find ones display's 'sweet spot' for Duo owners.
Obviously less hassle doing it 125 point calibration but as you have demonstrated its not the only way to get good results throughout the whole gamut.
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post #3742 of 4357
12/27/12 at 3:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

Sure. If you have a few hours to kill you could manually calibrate each color individually. I can't imagine why anyone would want to do this. The 125-point auto-cal does a really good job of getting very low dEs for all of the colors where it is possible (sometimes it isn't).

I agree but my VP is a Duo so investment in a Lumagen would be an expensive exercise just to get 125 point calibration with no improvement in my visible PQ.

I value the cash in my pocket more than the the hourly rate I associate with my hobby.

Incidentally Tom, I can manually calibrate the individual colours using your 75% saturation Rec 709 patterns to accuracy within 45 mins if I use the new 'set profile to zero' option in my Duo. Obviously my Grayscale will already have been done before.

Tweaking (not zeroing the colours first) can be done very quickly, probably within 15 mins to half an hour.

I think you may be underestimating how good and easy to use your Chromapure software is now if you feel it needs hours to get results manually..

Even including time to get accurate Power Gamma at say 2.2 and grayscale adjustment on my LCD CCFL using the OEM D3 takes me less than 1 and half hours starting with a completely zeroed Duo admittedly using 'Duo Control panel' for speed of Duo operation.

Again thanks for the 75% patterns they have certainly been an excellent addition to CP.
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post #3743 of 4357
12/27/12 at 3:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

There is no error here. Sometimes I call it auto-calibrate, sometimes auto-cal.

Thanks for that reassurance Tom.

It frankly never occurred to me that Trade mark or Copyright issues may be associated with the usage of the words.
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post #3744 of 4357
12/27/12 at 9:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PE06MCG View Post

I agree but my VP is a Duo so investment in a Lumagen would be an expensive exercise just to get 125 point calibration with no improvement in my visible PQ.
I value the cash in my pocket more than the the hourly rate I associate with my hobby.
Incidentally Tom, I can manually calibrate the individual colours using your 75% saturation Rec 709 patterns to accuracy within 45 mins if I use the new 'set profile to zero' option in my Duo. Obviously my Grayscale will already have been done before.
Tweaking (not zeroing the colours first) can be done very quickly, probably within 15 mins to half an hour.
I think you may be underestimating how good and easy to use your Chromapure software is now if you feel it needs hours to get results manually..
Even including time to get accurate Power Gamma at say 2.2 and grayscale adjustment on my LCD CCFL using the OEM D3 takes me less than 1 and half hours starting with a completely zeroed Duo admittedly using 'Duo Control panel' for speed of Duo operation.
Again thanks for the 75% patterns they have certainly been an excellent addition to CP.
You can't do 125 point with the Duo. It just doesn't have the tools. Probably calibrating to 75% saturation is the best you can do.
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post #3745 of 4357
12/27/12 at 9:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

You can't do 125 point with the Duo. It just doesn't have the tools. Probably calibrating to 75% saturation is the best you can do.

I could not agree more, however my contention is that 125 point calibration would not improve my PQ because my average dE2000 is below 1.0 which is not far off the best a 125 point calibration can achieve.
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post #3746 of 4357
12/27/12 at 10:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

You can't do 125 point with the Duo. It just doesn't have the tools. Probably calibrating to 75% saturation is the best you can do.

As I illustrated here, any user with a reasonable linear display can get near perfect results using your tools.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1180042/new-dvdo-iscan-duo-2-0-firmware-released/3390#post_22747212

And as I illustrate here there is a lot more to a Duo than calibration.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1180042/new-dvdo-iscan-duo-2-0-firmware-released/3330#post_22682031

There is a ISF trained (by Sencore) calibrator in my area who charges $250.
Lumagen Radiance - $3400/250= 13 calibrations, each user can do the math. IMO no contest.

Tom, thanks, as an early adopter of CP I took advantage of your discounted up grade to CP Pro. Much appreciated.
It is and has been a pleasure to do business with ChromaPure.
Edited by catmother - 12/27/12 at 10:16am
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post #3747 of 4357
12/27/12 at 10:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PE06MCG View Post

I could not agree more, however my contention is that 125 point calibration would not improve my PQ because my average dE2000 is below 1.0 which is not far off the best a 125 point calibration can achieve.

There is a ISF trained (by Sencore) calibrator in my area who charges $250.
Lumagen Radiance - $3400/250= 13 calibrations, each user can do the math. IMO no contest.

BTW Two of my sisters live in the UK. I have visited the UK on several occasions, once during World War II

One one visit (mid sixties) my sister and her husband took me to the Elizabethan room at the Gore hotel. A memorable experience although my memory may be a bit dimmed by the amount of Mead I consumed.
Edited by catmother - 12/27/12 at 10:38am
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post #3748 of 4357
12/27/12 at 11:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by catmother View Post

There is a ISF trained (by Sencore) calibrator in my area who charges $250.
Lumagen Radiance - $3400/250= 13 calibrations, each user can do the math. IMO no contest.
BTW Two of my sisters live in the UK. I have visited the UK on several occasions, once during World War II
One one visit (mid sixties) my sister and her husband took me to the Elizabethan room at the Gore hotel. A memorable experience although my memory may be a bit dimmed by the amount of Mead I consumed.

I don't undervalue the work a Pro calibrator can do but certainly a VP makes long term financial sense to me (apart from giving me a hobby in my retirement).

Regarding the UK, I'm afraid I live in the Northern part of England that is seen by the Southern Counties as being a little less refined and a lot more rural and hilly at least in Yorkshire where I live...

Never tasted mead but I'll take your word for it.
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post #3749 of 4357
12/27/12 at 11:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PE06MCG View Post

I could not agree more, however my contention is that 125 point calibration would not improve my PQ because my average dE2000 is below 1.0 which is not far off the best a 125 point calibration can achieve.
Not all displays will benefit from 125-point--only those with nonlinear color performance.
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post #3750 of 4357
12/27/12 at 11:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

Not all displays will benefit from 125-point--only those with nonlinear color performance.

Thanks Tom, that's my assessment as well.

I just know that without your Advanced Color Management (pre 125 calibration) I would not have been aware of the different saturation possibilities.

I have then been pleasantly surprised by the results and thank you for the tools to achieve my decision making.
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