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# The Official ChromaPure thread - Page 149

Quote:
Originally Posted by HD-Master

Thanks. I plan on trying "normal" tonight.

Hey dude never see you in the plasma forums anymore, good to see you here you are missed

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon

Quote:
Originally Posted by HD-Master

Thanks. I plan on trying "normal" tonight.

Hey dude never see you in the plasma forums anymore, good to see you here you are missed

I'm just taking a breather. I'm sure I'll jump back in at some point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek

A better way to get an exact mll number is to set ChromaPure to cdm2 in stead of fL and then use an online calculator. For example I get 0.002fL with it normally, but if I read cdm2 and convert I get 0.0023.
1fL = ~3.426cdm2, so to convert cdm2 to fL, just divide it by 3.426.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel

1fL = ~3.426cdm2, so to convert cdm2 to fL, just divide it by 3.426.

This is easier. LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by HD-Master

I'm just taking a breather. I'm sure I'll jump back in at some point.

Pretty much the same just different trolls
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767

Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel

1fL = ~3.426cdm2, so to convert cdm2 to fL, just divide it by 3.426.

This is easier. LOL

What is that or what program is it a part of? If is within Chromapure, I cannot find it. Thank you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HD-Master

What is that or what program is it a part of? If is within Chromapure, I cannot find it. Thank you.

The meter used is a Klein K10-A colorimeter and the software is Klein K Colorimeter.exe. The big Y is showing a read of 0.0031 Foot Lamberts and the meter is doing an average of four (very repeatable) reads per second. It reads that fast at 0.001 as well.
Hi Tom,
Would it be possible to include advanced CMS chart in the detailed report? Having at least post calibration advanced CMS results in the report would be fine.
Currently all I can do is to save a jpg, but it is low resolution ( small ). Temporary solution would be just to increase the resolution of this jpg.

Thanks

Pluto

Correct! I'm using the same also.
Edited by ConnecTEDDD - 6/26/13 at 3:38pm
In the Excel report you can switch back and forth between ft-L and cd/m2 in the Gamma section.
We have been having several support issues with Lumagen auto-cal that bewildered me, because I couldn't reproduce the issue here.

I discovered what the issue was. In a recent release we made some small changes and the result was that the code that turns Echo to Off was not always being called. With Echo set to On, which is the default, auto-cal will not run properly, and the signal generator toolbar will not function properly either. We made a small change to fix this. This will be released shortly along with some other small issues in a maintenance release.
Before I have my next calibration session I wanted to run a few things by the knowledgeble people in this thread. For reference my display is the Pioneer KRP-600M through a Duo and using Chromapure (obviously) with D3 corrected to i1pro1.

(1) What size window is currently recommended on this display
(2) When using Duo as signal generator what size is the normal window and what size is the small window
(3) When setting the peak white (contrast) should I use window or full field.
(4) When setting options for BT1886 gamma what value should I use for black level (my meter often reads 0.000)
(5) With BT1886 is the value for peak white the level I set when adjusting peak white (contrast) and is this value in cd/m2
(6) Generally speaking what gets the best results on this display when using ACM, 100% sat or 75% sat
(7) What distance should the D3 be from the screen when measuring. Does it matter if it is touching.
(8) Is this the same for the i1pro1 I've always used this contacting the display in the supplied holder.

Thanks
Edited by heyskip - 6/30/13 at 10:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by heyskip

Before I have my next calibration session I wanted to run a few things by the knowledgeble people in this thread. For reference my display is the Pioneer KRP-600M through a Duo and using Chromapure (obviously) with D3 corrected to i1pro1.

(1) What size window is currently recommended on this display.
Normal or small. Either will work.
(2) When using Duo as signal generator what size is the normal window and what size is the small window.
10%, 5%.
(3) When setting the peak white (contrast) should I use window or full field.
ALWAYS use windows for plasma.
(4) When setting options for BT1886 gamma what value should I use for black level (my meter often reads 0.000)
Use 0.001
(5) With BT1886 is the value for peak white the level I set when adjusting peak white (contrast) and is this value in cd/m2
Yes.
(6) Generally speaking what gets the best results on this display when using ACM, 100% sat or 75% sat
You are referring to levels of stimulus, not saturation. ACM measures multiple levels of saturation at a selected level of stimulus. 75% is a reasonable choice.
(7) What distance should the D3 be from the screen when measuring. Does it matter if it is touching.
No more than a foot. Contact measurements are fine.
(8) Is this the same for the i1pro1 I've always used this contacting the display in the supplied holder.
Yes.
Thanks for the quick reply Tom.
Just curious; for those who have Chromapure and a lumagen processor, are you using the AVS HD disc or the internal test patterns of the lumagen when setting the pre-cal brightness, contrast and white balance?

Thanks.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman

(7) What distance should the D3 be from the screen when measuring. Does it matter if it is touching.
No more than a foot. Contact measurements are fine.

So this means heat is not an issue with the D3?

And,related, what is the cone "spread" of the D3 at, say, 6"? I worry about getting centered without missing the small windows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison

So this means heat is not an issue with the D3?

And,related, what is the cone "spread" of the D3 at, say, 6"? I worry about getting centered without missing the small windows.
It is less of an issue than with the D2. I still think that offset from the screen a few inches is optimal, but contact measurements are certainly acceptable. At six inches, it is very small, between 1.5-2" across.
Quote:
Originally Posted by atabea

Just curious; for those who have Chromapure and a lumagen processor, are you using the AVS HD disc or the internal test patterns of the lumagen when setting the pre-cal brightness, contrast and white balance?

Thanks.......

Fairly new to Lumagen, but I use the internal Referenec patterns for setting up the display controls, although I do still use Spears & Munsil for checking brightness and for evaluating colour spaces, etc.
Regards, Mike.
Quote:
Originally Posted by atabea

Just curious; for those who have Chromapure and a lumagen processor, are you using the AVS HD disc or the internal test patterns of the lumagen when setting the pre-cal brightness, contrast and white balance?

Thanks.......
Masciors disc for black level, sharpness, geometry and light output. After autocal whitebalance and 125 pt.
Thanks Wouter and AV-mike. I was just wondering because everything passes through and is processed by the lumagen and that might have an effect on test signals generated by the AVSHD Disc or the Mascior Disc. So, if that is true, wouldn't it be best to do the pre-cal contrast, brightness, sharpness and white balance without the lumagen in the video chain? Or do I have it backwards in that whatever processing that the lumagen does to the test signals (from an external disc) is acceptable since the lumagen influences the final image in any event. And, if so, why not simply use the internal test patterns (for the pre-cal contrast, brightness and white balance) of the lumagen for the sake of uniformity. I know this could be said better but I don't have the expertise to do so.
The lumagen is part of the signal chain so leaving it out makes no sense to me. The reason I use the disc is because I know the patterns and (think) I know how to use them. The lumagen menu is clumsy and the patterns unfamiliar to me. So I stick with the disc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wouter73

The lumagen is part of the signal chain so leaving it out makes no sense to me. The reason I use the disc is because I know the patterns and (think) I know how to use them. The lumagen menu is clumsy and the patterns unfamiliar to me. So I stick with the disc

Leaving the lumagen in the chain makes perfect sense to me too. However, I was just trying to rationalize the concept that IF the lumagen "processes" and ultimately "changes" in any way the information on the test disc, then such information is no longer a true representation. Whereas, the internal test signals of the lumagen should be displayed exactly as intended for test purposes. Just wondering if there were any pros and cons either way. Truth be told, I have always left the lumagen in the chain and I use the AVS disc for pre-cal.
Kalibration is altering the image to create an image that conforms to set standards where available. It's the end result that matters. So leaving the lumagen out, calibrating the picture, and then putting the lumagen back in to process and alter the calibrated picture will not result in a calibrated picture.
I always calibrate using the patterns on the Lumagen. If I ask the Lumagen for a given test color, it knows what values it will send to the projector to produce it...so I know it is emitting the right pattern - there is no guess if there is an issue somewhere else in the chain. In this way I calibrate so that the projector matches what the Lumagen is requesting.

If I then go and test with a test-disk and it does not result in the right values, I know the input needs to be adjusted (either at the source or in the input settings of the Lumagen) and not the output since I know the projector is calibrated to the Lumagen reference patterns.
If the input is not adjustable in some way (either at the source or on the lumagen) then one must choose where to compromise (new gear, second calibration through the lumagen, just deal with the error, etc).

Fortunately in my setup, I am pure HDMI and all my current sources seem to do a good job and only need adjustments for Video vs PC level and similar...

By working this way you only need 1 calibration and then need to adjust any problem inputs once rather than re-calibrating every piece of gear you own...it is also much easier to work this way with Chromapure because it will control the Lumagen as a pattern generator, so issues using the Lumagen menus are not an issue in my book (at least as far as this forum is concerned)...

BTW - Has anybody here compared a calibration using the Lumagen as the source vs a Bluray and seen any significant difference in a digital signal path? Presuming you do not have any image color manipulation in the source path, I can't imagine there would be much of a delta-e but I've not tried in my setup. And if you have manipulation on, are you really calibrating anymore since you are not displaying the actual test patterns as they have been altered...
Hi all, I'm a new chromapure user and I have a few questions to ask if you don't mind

i'm using the display 3 pro meter and mainly for projectors.

1. What is the optimal distance of sensor to screen and should I place it slightly lower than center and angle up or off center and angle towards the center?
2. Is their any warm up time for the sensor ?
3. I'm seeing fluctuations particularly in lower grey scale readings were at any given point the red for example will swing from mid 90% to low 100% and then come back down, is this a meter issue or are projectors known to do this, it seems to be less of an issue in the higher ire's, my 10 ire when doing the grey scale chart varies greatly if i select measure a couple times the results are quite different
4. What is the best way about going through the work flow, i'm finding that all is well up till i start adjusting gamma and then it throws everything else out, should I be doing gamma first ?, i'm just finding that i'm going round and round in circles with greyscale , colour and gamma all throw each other out, how do you guys settle on what method works best ?
5. when adjusting gamma it shows the grey scale in the smaller window, would i be correct in assuming that if the display allows it , i should be adjusting the rgb gamma settings as well as the white to not only get the correct gamma curve but also achieve a flat greyscale throughout the range (using the JVC's gamma controls as an example)
6. im using the AVSHD Patterns and just wondering should I be suing the full field patterns or windows with projector's, also is there any difference between all the different versions like calman, chromapure , etc?

thanks for all your help in advance , much appreciated and my apologies for so many questions

thanks
Rob
Edited by crumpet - 7/4/13 at 10:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by crumpet

Hi all, I'm a new chromapure user and I have a few questions to ask if you don't mind

i'm using the display 3 pro meter and mainly for projectors.

1. What is the optimal distance of sensor to screen and should I place it slightly lower than center and angle up or off center and angle towards the center?
2. Is their any warm up time for the sensor ?
3. I'm seeing fluctuations particularly in lower grey scale readings were at any given point the red for example will swing from mid 90% to low 100% and then come back down, is this a meter issue or are projectors known to do this, it seems to be less of an issue in the higher ire's, my 10 ire when doing the grey scale chart varies greatly if i select measure a couple times the results are quite different
4. What is the best way about going through the work flow, i'm finding that all is well up till i start adjusting gamma and then it throws everything else out, should I be doing gamma first ?, i'm just finding that i'm going round and round in circles with greyscale , colour and gamma all throw each other out, how do you guys settle on what method works best ?
5. when adjusting gamma it shows the grey scale in the smaller window, would i be correct in assuming that if the display allows it , i should be adjusting the rgb gamma settings as well as the white to not only get the correct gamma curve but also achieve a flat greyscale throughout the range (using the JVC's gamma controls as an example)
6. im using the AVSHD Patterns and just wondering should I be suing the full field patterns or windows with projector's, also is there any difference between all the different versions like calman, chromapure , etc?

1. Meter placement is discussed in the Help file (Calibration Procedures, Calibrating a Front Projector)
2. No. There is a warm up time for the projector, though. I'd wait 30 minutes before calibrating.
3. There is something wrong on your end. I just took 10 consecutive measurements off of a StudioTek, with a JVC RS-45 PJ and got

Here's the same readings in the White Balance module, both individual and continuous. Individual readings vary about +- 1.5% in the red channel, which is normal. Continuous readings are rock solid.

http://www.chromapure.com/bugtest/LowLevel/LowLevel.html

4. Changes to gamma will affect grayscale, but it should not affect color much. After you correct grayscale for the gamma changes, gamma is altered very little. BTW, the "going around in circles" phenomenon you describe is more likely an artifact of the JVC multipoint gamma adjustment, which is a PITA to use.
5. Yes.
6. Full field.
Thanks for the reply Tom , all makes sense and I will post 10 measurements, like you have so you can see exactly whats happening, I work in a home theater shop and have now calibrated 6 different models,. if the problem is unique to the jvc then that would make sense that it's something wrong at my end , but if its happening on all of then could my meter have a fault ?
I will try a few different brands and post results for all of them for you to look at

thanks again
Tom,

After DVG-5000 has been updated to 4.73, I saw the windows or small windows have gray background when switching from APL windows to other windows size.
If I restart CP, I see the windows pattern comes back normal with black background. I'm the only one seeing this issue? CP version is 2.4.1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebits

After DVG-5000 has been updated to 4.73, I saw the windows or small windows have gray background when switching from APL windows to other windows size.
If I restart CP, I see the windows pattern comes back normal with black background. I'm the only one seeing this issue? CP version is 2.4.1.
Not seeing this here. If you have selected APL windows as your pattern size, closing CP stores this setting in the configuration file. The next time you open it, this setting (along with other signal generator settings) is retained. I just tested this.

You might want to try closing CP and then deleting the configuration file and trying again.
(C:\ProgramData\Display Calibrations LLC\ChromaPure\2\ChromaPure.config).
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