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Epson 8500UB 200,000:1 CR - Page 5

post #121 of 3635
I'm wondering what Epson has to say. Just because they upgraded, doesn't mean the previous couldn't do the job. I can't imagine them putting such a cheap processor in that can't do what it was intended to do. It's not a glitch one in awhile, it is rythmic.
post #122 of 3635
Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post

JVC seems to buck this trend.


In the past InFocus did as well (hopefully they will continue to do so)...... I keep hoping that the "more realistically accurate" manufacturers will be able to lead by example... but like my statistics teacher said the first day of class... "figures do not lie... but all liars figure!"
post #123 of 3635
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

According to Ekkehart they added a new processor for FI. I am sure he is correct and this makes the 6500/7000 limited by hardware.


Yes, exactly. The new model has the newest generation chip and the older one is definately hardware limited. That is info directly from Epson (and that is why they got a new chip now). Anymore improvement can not be done by further updates.

It does not have to do with "cheap" processors either. Besides the PT-AE3000, no projector of the last years generation has a perfect FI.


Regards,
Ekkehart
post #124 of 3635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cine4Home View Post

Besides the PT-AE3000, no projector of the last years generation has a perfect FI.

Have you already seen the new JVCs' FI implemention? Is it as good as the AE3000's and the TW5500's FI?
post #125 of 3635
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

Have you already seen the new JVCs' FI implemention? Is it as good as the AE3000's and the TW5500's FI?


Yes, I have seen it... and no, it is not...

Regards,
Ekkehart
post #126 of 3635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cine4Home View Post

Yes, exactly. The new model has the newest generation chip and the older one is definately hardware limited. That is info directly from Epson (and that is why they got a new chip now). Anymore improvement can not be done by further updates.

It does not have to do with "cheap" processors either. Besides the PT-AE3000, no projector of the last years generation has a perfect FI.


Regards,
Ekkehart

If it doesn't have to due with the sub-par (cheap processors) then I don't see how it cannot improve with firmware updates. They should have planned for giving themselves the ability to use the hardware further with updates.

I definitely will be skipping this generation if I go with another Epson. Since my computer does most of my video duties, I can have that do the processing.

Sorry, I'm a tad irritated that I have a permanently broken feature. My parents $1,500 Sony TV does FI very well.
post #127 of 3635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cine4Home View Post

Yes, I have seen it... and no, it is not...

Regards,
Ekkehart

Ekkehart,

Thank for posting early look results.

It looks like the section on CR results was cut short. Did you find substantial CR improvement in 5500 from last year's 5000?

If not, perhaps this explains the 5500 - half way between 5000 and 6000 (:
post #128 of 3635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cine4Home View Post

Yes, I have seen it... and no, it is not...

Regards,
Ekkehart

Jason at AVS in his preview of the RS15 and RS25 says that JVC's motionflow is better than any other manufacturers. I suspect that he's comparing this feature on the 2009 JVCs to the competition's 2008 FI feature and, if so, then the competition's FI has been significantly improved leaving JVC behind in this area. So much for JVC's FI being the best - things change and change quickly with these products! There is obviously a difference of opinion when it comes to the 2008 Panasonic AE3000 and the quality of its FI.
post #129 of 3635
Cine4Home

Thanks for your Epson review! I am very excited to hear about the improved frame interpolation.

How would you rate the Epson's Ansi contrast and its lens quality?
post #130 of 3635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Jason at AVS in his preview of the RS15 and RS25 says that JVC's motionflow is better than any other manufacturers. I suspect that he's comparing this feature on the 2009 JVCs to the competition's 2008 FI feature and, if so, then the competition's FI has been significantly improved leaving JVC behind in this area. So much for JVC's FI being the best - things change and change quickly with these products!


Well, that does not match what I have seen a couple of weeks ago, because from what I have seen it is not even better than last years FI technology.

Regards,
Ekkehart
post #131 of 3635
Quote:
Originally Posted by yamahaSHO View Post

If it doesn't have to due with the sub-par (cheap processors) then I don't see how it cannot improve with firmware updates. They should have planned for giving themselves the ability to use the hardware further with updates.

I definitely will be skipping this generation if I go with another Epson. Since my computer does most of my video duties, I can have that do the processing.

Sorry, I'm a tad irritated that I have a permanently broken feature. My parents $1,500 Sony TV does FI very well.


I understand your frustration. The problem is that the FI is a new technology. Last year, a few manufacturors offered processors who can do the job: Pixelworks, Toshiba and Philips. You could choose one and then you found out how optimal you can do the FI. Unfortunately, with the last years Pixelworks (which was in the Epson), resources are limited.

You can compare the situation to the hundreds of De-Interlacing processors, of which until today(!) 99% do not their job perfectly.

I know this does not help you, but it is an explanation. FI is a very, very complex topic and with the pressure of bringing a new model every year, it becomes more and more difficult to perfectionize 1st generation technologies.

Regards,
Ekkehart
post #132 of 3635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cine4Home View Post

I understand your frustration. The problem is that the FI is a new technology. Last year, a few manufacturors offered processors who can do the job: Pixelworks, Toshiba and Philips. You could choose one and then you found out how optimal you can do the FI. Unfortunately, with the last years Pixelworks (which was in the Epson), resources are limited.

Do you happen to know which FI chips are in the new Epson (TW5500) and in the AE3000/4000?
post #133 of 3635
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

Do you happen to know which FI chips are in the new Epson (TW5500) and in the AE3000/4000?


Yes,
post #134 of 3635
I almost expected this response...
post #135 of 3635
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

I almost expected this response...

Ok,ok

The PT-AE3000/4000 use the PNX5100 from NXP, a subdivision of Philips, the new Epson TW5500 uses the new Pixelworks 9801.

Regards,
Ekkehart
post #136 of 3635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cine4Home View Post

Ok,ok

The PT-AE3000/4000 use the PNX5100 from NXP, a subdivision of Philips, the new Epson TW5500 uses the new Pixelworks 9801.

That's very interesting - thank you!!

Now I guess I opened a can of worms. Do you know which chips Sony and JVC are using, too?
post #137 of 3635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cine4Home View Post

Ok,ok

The PT-AE3000/4000 use the PNX5100 from NXP, a subdivision of Philips, the new Epson TW5500 uses the new Pixelworks 9801.

Regards,
Ekkehart

Ekkehart:

Please don't think I am being rude......

Would it be possible for you to share with us the reason you do not/can not sell your Light Power Edition filters to those of us in the USA???????
post #138 of 3635


Looks like both the 8500/9500 are awaiting THX certification. I spoke to an EPSON rep at CEDIA and he said this should happen within the next couple if weeks. My first impressions of the 9500 was that it has a higher native contrast ratio and the FI implementation is much improved.
post #139 of 3635
THX certification means jack... My cheap ass computer speakers carry a "THX" certification.


Considering the projector looks the same as last year, I wonder what it would take (if possible) to have the FI chip upgraded in an older model?
post #140 of 3635
Quote:
Originally Posted by yamahaSHO View Post

THX certification means jack... My cheap ass computer speakers carry a "THX" certification.


Considering the projector looks the same as last year, I wonder what it would take (if possible) to have the FI chip upgraded in an older model?

True. This should help with the colors that LCD's tend to look a bit oversaturated compared to LCoS and other projector types. I did see much more accurate color points with the 9500/8500.
post #141 of 3635
They should offer some sort of upgrade system from the 6500 to 8500. Kind of like what some video card manufactures do.
post #142 of 3635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallboy View Post

They should offer some sort of upgrade system from the 6500 to 8500. Kind of like what some video card manufactures do.

All manufacturers should - the FI doesn't work well in the aggressive mode on any of the 2008 models with the exception of the Panny AE3000 and apparently the 2009 JVCs have problems as well. The manufacturers aren't, IMO, going to do this since it will diminish their sales (upgrading). Are we victims? Yes, we're victims! Deal with it.
post #143 of 3635
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHoStevo View Post

Ekkehart:

Please don't think I am being rude......

Would it be possible for you to share with us the reason you do not/can not sell your Light Power Edition filters to those of us in the USA???????

Stevo,
I've asked him a dozen times (PM, email, website)...you should know he's not going to answer...and please don't press him, we don't want to force him back underground now that he's surfaced again with all of his useful info
post #144 of 3635
Well now that more info has been release when can we order? Also will I be able to order a 9500 from AVS or do I need to go to my local Brick and Mortor shop?
post #145 of 3635
Quote:
Originally Posted by pottscb View Post

Stevo,
I've asked him a dozen times (PM, email, website)...you should know he's not going to answer...and please don't press him, we don't want to force him back underground now that he's surfaced again with all of his useful info

No I definitely do not wish to force him underground.......

I also have asked in every way I can think of... I even had a friend call while he was in Germany!

I was trying to have my friend buy one in Germany, but the dealer he contacted (listed as one of their dealers) did not know anything about it??

I am sure there "must" be a reason... just cannot for the life of me figure out what it is.

If there is a reason I did not think it obtuse or even offensive to ask what it was?? They do really great work with "beamers" and I would just like to benefit from it. I mean it's all about me!
post #146 of 3635
I just came back from viewing several Projectors at Cedia including the New Epson 9500 and the JVC's. It is interesting that Epson decided to show the new projector with both the Auto Iris and FI turned off. The picture in the room they were show it was still very good with excellent blacks in the scenes from Planet Earth. The JVC's also looked great at the setup in the Omni Hotel. I forgot to ask if FI was turned on the JVC's. Another projector that I viewed was the new low priced Mitsusbishi 3800 (I think that was the number). I was surprised how good the picture was for this low priced DLP unit. They let me close the curtains and to my surprise even the blacks looked very good. They were using a 92" screen for the demo.

I should also point out that the new Epsonn 9500 is flat black. I would love to see how the new FI and auto iris works but that will be impossible at the show.

The other observation I have is that this is a year of transition. Many of the changes are needed fixes. I think we will have to wait one more year for the next generation of projectors. With those I would expect big changes including HDMI 1.4 and 3D.
post #147 of 3635
For those who have seen the two, is the new Epson much brighter than the JVCs?
post #148 of 3635
It is impossible to tell if the Epson is much brighter. because of the different setups. I will say that both looked great and the JVC was shown on a much larger screen. It has not problem with brightness if you use it in a light controlled room.
post #149 of 3635
I am looking for some help in the video processing. I noticed some of the new Epson projectors features ISF calibration controls. I am eyeing getting one of the new Onkyo receivers that also include ISF controls, the TX-NR1007. I thought about the TX-NR807 which does not have ISF controls, but based on it's other features I think I will still get the 1007.

But having a receiver that does the ISF, should I also have a projector that does it? The 9100 and 9500UB both have the ISF,and the 9500UB adds the HQV processor. The 8100 and 8500UB would be cheaper without ISF, but maybe I should have it in the projector even if I also have it in the receiver? The TX-NR1007 has the DCDi Cinema processor cheich isthe same one that is in the 807 which has gotten good reviews for it's video processing.

The price of the 8100 is amazing! And given the features in the Onkyo 1007, maybe the 8500UB isn't worth the extra $?? Did anyone see the 8100 and 8500UB at CEDIA? Was the 8500UB that much better? I am also considering the new PT-AE4000. I currently have the PT-AE900. What are your thoughts guys?
post #150 of 3635
Why is this thread so slow? Any new info on the pricing of the 8500? Any new previews?
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